the FSS, watching paint dry....

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

In my personal opinion, the core of the problem seems to be that with the old ADS, all the interesting things(tm) was revealed after holding down a button for a few seconds... a button that could be held down by taping it down (or the software equivalent).

The new FSS requires active manipulation by the player, interpretation of the information thus provided, and some knowledge about the game universe and astronomy to find the same interesting things, plus you can find other interesting things as well. This process also takes between ten to twenty seconds to do so, so considerably slower than the old god honk.

Alternatively, they can play a “mini game” that often takes even longer than that.

Wrong.
The core of the problem is that bodies are not targetable until the minigame has been completed.

 

[Burke]

In my personal opinion, the core of the problem seems to be that with the old ADS, all the interesting things(tm) was revealed after holding down a button for a few seconds... a button that could be held down by taping it down (or the software equivalent).

The new FSS requires active manipulation by the player, interpretation of the information thus provided, and some knowledge about the game universe and astronomy to find the same interesting things, plus you can find other interesting things as well. This process also takes between ten to twenty seconds to do so, so considerably slower than the old god honk.

Alternatively, they can play a “mini game” that often takes even longer than that.

The old way was like switching the light on in a darkened room to see if there is anything to see. The new way makes you search the room with a torch, individually lighting up objects until you have a complete picture.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Main point to me is - and I admit it's a highly subjective one - that you hand over all positions on a silver platter with the ADS which make all these bodies lose their ideally value in my book. They feel like 30 tons full of pearls to me, meaningless marbles nice for watching for once but with zero longevity. To me at least. Maybe you can understand now why I can't accept parts of the old besides the new functionality?

I get where you're coming from, sure.
But what we're (mostly) asking for is an optional module that gives us limited information on the system - targetable black-bodies, basically.
You could simply not fit the module and continue to have the exploration experience you enjoy, whilst allowing us to have ours.

 

[Stigbob]

Wrong.
The core of the problem is that bodies are not targetable until the minigame has been completed.

That's the point of the minigame though.

 

[Burke]

I get where you're coming from, sure.
But what we're (mostly) asking for is an optional module that gives us limited information on the system - targetable black-bodies, basically.
You could simply not fit the module and continue to have the exploration experience you enjoy, whilst allowing us to have ours.

Every time i see that i chuckle. Anyway im asking for the old honk back altho i could tolerate the compromise. So long as they dont remove the sounds. Even as i type this i can feel the question pop into my head... but what about the colour. Yeah i just want the old honk back. I feel like i paid for it.

 

[Sterling MH]

In my personal opinion, the core of the problem seems to be that with the old ADS, all the interesting things(tm) was revealed after holding down a button for a few seconds....

Not what it used to do. And the image was stock. You needed a DSS scan to show the surface.

But if they want the screen populated with the honk, what's the FSS for in their scenario?

Could I ask for an interdictor breaker and defend it with "Well you still get your FSD interdiction, I'm not trying to take it from you!"? I've seen nothing to say why it wouldn't work with those who proclaim they're not taking the FSS away.

 

[Sterling MH]

The old way was like switching the light on in a darkened room to see if there is anything to see.

It still is. The count says what is in there. Additionally the waveform says what's there. No scanning needed. Space is bigger than your room, and you won't see everything, to do that you need to move the furniture. Want to know if there's something hidden under the sofa? Turning the light on won't help. You need to lift the sofa too.

 

[Sooden]

That's the point of the minigame though.

but it would be nice if the mini game was something you did as an option, and not the start of the process of exploring.


- honk , populates a black/blak system map showing the structure, so people that played the old way and liked it still have something
- Zooming in gives visuals, composition
- probing.. get arrested for space crimes against planets

Still, i just gonna ask that they don't make me put on the brakes to look at the spectrum read out

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

That's the point of the minigame though.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. However, I don't want to play the repetitive, guaranteed success minigame. I want to discover things by flying my spaceship around. Like I spent thousands of hours happily doing.

 

[Sterling MH]

"But what we're (mostly) asking for is an optional module that gives us limited information on the system"

You're getting that. It's not the limited form you're used to, but it has more information.

The waveform. There's also a little icon map that tells you what is an ELW.

Everything you got from the honk is there. Plus a lot more.

Is the ONLY thing you're missing the ability to target that planet so you can fly to it? You can do that in three seconds: zoom in until it's revealed. None of the others need bother you, and you can select that target and go there.

You're all asking for things you already have, the only thing you don't have that you ask for isn't needed for any of the rest.

 

[moorison]

Every time i see that i chuckle. Anyway im asking for the old honk back altho i could tolerate the compromise. So long as they dont remove the sounds. Even as i type this i can feel the question pop into my head... but what about the colour. Yeah i just want the old honk back. I feel like i paid for it.

I think the sounds have changed with the update, but are still there - either focusing on the blobs or zoomed in. It might be less intuitive what the sounds represent, but they are apparently more scientifically accurate.

 

[Stigbob]

but it would be nice if the mini game was something you did as an option, and not the start of the process of exploring.


- honk , populates a black/blak system map showing the structure, so people that played the old way and liked it still have something
- Zooming in gives visuals, composition
- probing.. get arrested for space crimes against planets

Still, i just gonna ask that they don't make me put on the brakes to look at the spectrum read out

It is entirely optional.

There's also NAV beacons instead inside the bubble. I find its quicker to just use the FSS though I also prefer doing it that way.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. However, I don't want to play the repetitive, guaranteed success minigame. I want to discover things by flying my spaceship around. Like I spent thousands of hours happily doing.

Jump honk was also a guaranteed success why is that an issue under the new system specifically ?.

The old system was a lot less engaging I found. Under the new system you can decide if anything's worth a closer visit for mapping without having to fly any closer, everything's laid out for you in the wave scanner. You also have something to do and mat gathering USS hopping is much more fun and specific.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

"But what we're (mostly) asking for is an optional module that gives us limited information on the system"

You're getting that. It's not the limited form you're used to, but it has more information.

The waveform. There's also a little icon map that tells you what is an ELW.

Everything you got from the honk is there. Plus a lot more.

Is the ONLY thing you're missing the ability to target that planet so you can fly to it? You can do that in three seconds: zoom in until it's revealed. None of the others need bother you, and you can select that target and go there.

You're all asking for things you already have, the only thing you don't have that you ask for isn't needed for any of the rest.

Firstly, scanning the body with the FSS makes flying to the body meaningless, since I've already been given all the information about the body. It's already 'explored', by my definition.

Secondly, I don't want to play a repetitive, guaranteed-success minigame.

Thirdly, the probe mechanism - the only reason left for flying my spaceship - presents me with another repetitive guaranteed-success minigame that does the surface exploration for me. There's no reason to do it other than getting another tick in the codex.

So no, I'm not 'asking for things I already have', I'm asking for things to be taken away so that I can go back to doing what I consider to be exploration.

 

[Burke]

I think the sounds have changed with the update, but are still there - either focusing on the blobs or zoomed in. It might be less intuitive what the sounds represent, but they are apparently more scientifically accurate.

Sounded exactly the same to me. And long may they stay that way. Brought back memorys of my early explorations when i had to open the map and listen carefully to idenify things. You are talking about the FSS im talking about the system map. Each planet has its own sound. Kind of a spackly sound or bubble water.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

It is entirely optional.

There's also NAV beacons instead inside the bubble. I find its quicker to just use the FSS though I also prefer doing it that way.



Jump honk was also a guaranteed success why is that an issue under the new system specifically ?.

The old system was a lot less engaging I found. Under the new system you can decide if anything's worth a closer visit for mapping without having to fly any closer you also have something to do and mat gathering USS hopping is much more fun and specific.

It's not optional on unexplored systems, unless you consider parallax to be an option.

Jump-honk wasn't a minigame, therefore there was no concept of success.
A minigame that required some skill/knowledge in order to resolve the bodies would be more acceptable to me, but the FSS doesn't fit that bill. It's just a time-gate on the information.

Finally, as I've said multiple times before, not having to fly around the system is what I consider to be the worst aspect of the new exploration mechanics.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

But if they want the screen populated with the honk, what's the FSS for in their scenario?

One suggestion is to create a visual image of the system only. No other information than that. The FSS could be used to get the planet's information and possible POIs. Which is my preferred one.

Other suggestions are: a black body system map or one where the bodies are represented by their FSS signal.

And there are those who want the complete information of the ADS, and then use the FSS to get the information you used to get from scanning the body.

edit: I'd even argue for descreasing honk rewards, since as many have stated, it's a 5 second push of the button, and not really worth rewarding.

 

[Burke]

One suggestion is to create a visual image of the system only. No other information than that. The FSS could be used to get the planet's information and possible POIs. Which is my preferred one.

Yes this. There is a wealth of content that could be added for the FSS and the ADS can sit happily to one side being a quick mapper.

And you know what? In that situation i would probably just fly out to the planets anyway and pretend the FSS didnt exist

 

[Riverside]

The FSS is great as it is finally the most basic exploration built in for all and especially USS detection has now opened up without the need to install a module that should have been built in from the start.
The ADS functionality is triggered by just honking and then leaving the FSS mode, all further blip fine tuning is the old surface scanning excluding the tedious traveltime from before and another wasted module slot.

So what is the core of the Problem?
Honking only will reward the payment you'd get from ADSing before without further work, the presence of specific planettypes is shown on the tuning tab, no earthlike frequency means there is no ELW.

The FSS does have a lot going for it, and it certainly saves a lot of time & allows a lot of money to be earned & things to be scanned that might otherwise have been ignored because they were too far away (as an example). I've been using it in the bubble to scan systems I either never bothered to fully scan or had never visited before (I'm avoiding my home system 'till the BGS settles down).

The ADS functionality you describe works just as before in fully explored systems (ie the whole of the bubble & some distance beyond), but it no longer works in partially or fully untagged systems. The ADS would provide a list of unexplored, targetable planets & moons just as the FSS still does in the bubble if you personally have not scanned them (and they are not pre-populated like Sol & some other systems are).

So I'm looking to get that functionality back in unexplored space by fitting the old ADS module, so consuming a module slot and adding some mass & power requirement as it did before. It would be of no benefit in the bubble, only in a system that had not been fully tagged or had no tags at all.

 

[Sterling MH]

One suggestion is to create a visual image of the system only. No other information than that. The FSS could be used to get the planet's information and possible POIs. Which is my preferred one.

Other suggestions are: a black body system map or one where the bodies are represented by their FSS signal.

And there are those who want the complete information of the ADS, and then use the FSS to get the information you used to get from scanning the body.

Why when all the information is there with the FSS? The waveform shows what, the count shows how many. Don't get why it HAS to be an image. POIs are what the DSS is for. Unless you mean USSs.

Black body doesn't change the problem with the first one. It's what the ADS gave to begin with. And that got changed for complaints about it.

There's no information fromthe ADS that isn't there. Not precisely the same form, but far more than the original, and still more, if slightly encoded (see wave scanner on the SRV: Why not just populate what the wave scanner sees! Because then there's less game to play, nothing to learn) and the FSS is now what the DSS does.

Look, I can see why people want it. And I can see why little Elanor wants a pony. Both have as much reason to need it as the other.

The FSS does everything needed, even before you zoom in, apart from let you target one single body, which takes zooming in, three seconds. Unless you just looked at the picture and then ran over there to find out what it was, it took longer than it will to target the planet.

 

[Stigbob]

It's not optional on unexplored systems, unless you consider parallax to be an option.

Everything about video games is optional.

Jump-honk wasn't a minigame, therefore there was no concept of success.
A minigame that required some skill/knowledge in order to resolve the bodies would be more acceptable to me, but the FSS doesn't fit that bill. It's just a time-gate on the information.

The same information as the honk provided is available immediately via the wave scanner, there's no time gate at all unless you want to start discovery tagging things in which case you don't need to fly any closer unless you want to map it/land so again that's actually a time saver. Its also more fun than fly towards and wait.

Finally, as I've said multiple times before, not having to fly around the system is what I consider to be the worst aspect of the new exploration mechanics.

Map everything (I do) that way you still fly around the system. You deciding not to do something isn't an issue with the games mechanics.