the FSS, watching paint dry....

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Yes, there are people who having not got their way will refuse to let it lie and insist on complaining, even if they have to make up a problem or leap to ad hom in place of argument. But worst of all are those who do not name so as to hide behind implausible deniability.

Maybe it would be better if an argument were not left vague so as to be unassailable due to no substance to attack.

It's a discussion forum, designed specifically so that people can give their opinions on the game. So, as long as my opinion is that FDev should reintroduce some form of ADS functionality, I'm going to keep stating that opinion.
No need to make up problems when FDev are busy presenting us with them and the ad homs are flying from both sides, so nobody gets the moral high ground.

 

[Riverside]

Picommander i have to point out that it was you who posted the unplesant picture that sabotaged the last thread we had about this. It really does feel like there are few people around who only really want to take the ADS gameplay away from others and they are going to extreme lengths to do that. Its got an edge of meaness to it.

Both sides are just winding each other up I think.

There seem to be two main positions & one sub-division.

One position doesn't like using the FSS, which is fair comment.
Another position likes using the FSS, which is also fair comment.
Both of these views are on topic.

Then we have the view that those that don't like the FSS are somehow wrong to not like it. I don't think these posts really add to the conversation.

Personally, like you Burke, I'll be happy to have both ADS & FSS in the game & make use of the advantages of either or both.

 

[Sterling MH]

That may be true or not, but it doesnt explain why the anti crowd keep posting

Because if your anti stance is the only one heard, then FD will think that nobody likes it.

Now this may suit your political needs just fine, but pretending you "don't know why" someone counters your point with their own is just plain disingenuous.

 

[Burke]

Well its like Riverside said above, nobody is trying to take your FSS away. Everybody likes different things, if fdev want to add something new then thats all good. But cmon, dont take our fun away at the same time.

 

[Sooden]

just came to my mind...

when i was out there, near the core. If a system had been reported, i get the data on the system map before discovery.

Sure it could be your computer was given it, before i left, or did it faster than light, call the station(s) it was sold at?

It has come up before... i wonder if the new system would be so popular if player had to scan all system around the bubble, no auto fill for system already visited.

Seem they already made a decisions to change how it was meant to work because there was an issue, so FDev could be open to some more changes

 

[Burke]

Yep. If you never stepped outside the bubble then you might not even realise how gimped it is. It only hurts deep space explorers. I did my guardien booster grind just recenty and i didnt see a single system that wasnt fully visable to me. Some people probably think a couple thousand ly is out in the wilds but it isnt. All the common roads are going to be fully mapped. Its only when you come to exploring stuff that has not been explored before you find the empty system map.

 

[Julio Montega]

Both sides are just winding each other up I think.

There seem to be two main positions & one sub-division.

One position doesn't like using the FSS, which is fair comment.
Another position likes using the FSS, which is also fair comment.
Both of these views are on topic.

Then we have the view that those that don't like the FSS are somehow wrong to not like it. I don't think these posts really add to the conversation.

Personally, like you Burke, I'll be happy to have both ADS & FSS in the game & make use of the advantages of either or both.

The FSS is great as it is finally the most basic exploration built in for all and especially USS detection has now opened up without the need to install a module that should have been built in from the start.
The ADS functionality is triggered by just honking and then leaving the FSS mode, all further blip fine tuning is the old surface scanning excluding the tedious traveltime from before and another wasted module slot.

So what is the core of the Problem?
Honking only will reward the payment you'd get from ADSing before without further work, the presence of specific planettypes is shown on the tuning tab, no earthlike frequency means there is no ELW.

 

[Sterling MH]

Well its like Riverside said above, nobody is trying to take your FSS away.

You are. And others.

ADS won't work with FSS, so they have to have one or the other.

 

[Ebel]

Yep. If you never stepped outside the bubble then you might not even realise how gimped it is. It only hurts deep space explorers. I did my guardien booster grind just recenty and i didnt see a single system that wasnt fully visable to me. Some people probably think a couple thousand ly is out in the wilds but it isnt. All the common roads are going to be fully mapped. Its only when you come to exploring stuff that has not been explored before you find the empty system map.

To be fair Burke, it has it pluses as well as minuses. Unlike others on both sides of this I have stated my opinion elsewhere in the forum and don't see that hashing it over and over again will do anything to sway Fdev. Neither will it sway those who for whatever reason don't want anyone to have what has gone before. In the final analysis, Fdev will see what the bottom line is not what some dozen or so hard core "No ADS" posters or "Pro-ADS" have to say or frankly what our opinion is. Guarantee the people posting here are a very small percentage of those who play and you can bet the bottom line is what they will watch. At this point only time will tell.

One thing I will say is that throughout the lead up and deployment of this update I have lost all respect for some of the usual forum posters. I will admit that almost all are on the "that's the way it is, get over it" shove it down crowd. fwiw ymmv

edit; hate it when my fingers slip

 

[Burke]

You are. And others.

ADS won't work with FSS, so they have to have one or the other.

Of course it will. You are just shifting the planet revealing functionality onto another module. Then the FSS will have the purpose of scanning down signals and interesting things AND it can keep its planet scanning if you want. Where as the ADS honk would come as another module with a weight penalty that would have the simple task of quick system mapping. They can exist side by side. They can even exist side by side and not change the FSS one tiny bit.

Edit: from a certain point of view they must exist side by side now cause the FSS is built in so it cant be easily changed. The side by side option is there and its saying "come to me, all people can be happy!"

 

[Darkfyre99]

That is true.
I am reminded of the horrible, lore-breaking head-canon thread, in that there is a lot the game does not tell us and we make up an explanation in our head. If that suddenly contradicts something new seen in game (in my case the magic wings of the Guardian fighters), it is annoying because you have to fix your explanation or ignore it.
It seems immersion, being even more personal and not as easy to translate between people, works similar and people have different tolerances to changes in the way the game works.
The best we satisfied players can do is provide our explanations as an alternative.

This may be a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but people keep using immersion when what they really mean is verisimilitude.

When you find yourself only getting four hours of sleep because you unconsciously shut off your “get to bed you idiot!” alarm in favor of finishing your exploration of a system, that’s immersion.

When you find yourself learning something about the game universe, and suddenly say, “oh, now that thing from the other day makes sense!” that’s verisimilitude.

As for the topic at hand, I’ve found that I’m “suffering” from “One More System” Syndrome, to the point where I don’t dare fire up ED before work when I’m up a bit early, so I’m clearly immersed. I also play in VR, which makes it very clear to me that the FSS is less a separate “screen”, and more of an augmented reality, similar to the turret mode of the SRV, the “camera” mode, or the system and galaxy maps. So on that front, it also maintains my sense of verisimilitude.

 

[Sterling MH]

Of course it will. "

Nope, it will not. You're just asserting based on nothing other than it being what you want. If it were possible, then it would be done. The devs know how the code works, not you, so you don't know it will be possible.

Moreover you completely and utterly ignore that you already have the effect of ADS. Honk. End of discussion. You get all the cash you got before. ADS got you no more than that. you still have that, but you're invested and can't break out.

 

[Sterling MH]

Then we have the view that those that don't like the FSS are somehow wrong to not like it. I don't think these posts really add to the conversation.

Got an example?

No?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The FSS is great as it is finally the most basic exploration built in for all and especially USS detection has now opened up without the need to install a module that should have been built in from the start.
The ADS functionality is triggered by just honking and then leaving the FSS mode, all further blip fine tuning is the old surface scanning excluding the tedious traveltime from before and another wasted module slot.

So what is the core of the Problem?
Honking only will reward the payment you'd get from ADSing before without further work, the presence of specific planettypes is shown on the tuning tab, no earthlike frequency means there is no ELW.

The core of the problem is that some of us enjoyed the 'tedious travel time' and want to continue to gather information by flying our spaceships around the system rather than playing a -twiddling minigame.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Nope, it will not. You're just asserting based on nothing other than it being what you want. If it were possible, then it would be done. The devs know how the code works, not you, so you don't know it will be possible.

Moreover you completely and utterly ignore that you already have the effect of ADS. Honk. End of discussion. You get all the cash you got before. ADS got you no more than that. you still have that, but you're invested and can't break out.

Oh look, another one who thinks it's about the credits.

 

[Burke]

End of discussion.

Ok sure. But ill leave it with this thought. Force feeding the FSS to the players is directly contrary to the "blaze your own trail" advertising. People cant be blazing their own trail when the game suddenly shifts underneath them.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Then we have the view that those that don't like the FSS are somehow wrong to not like it. I don't think these posts really add to the conversation.

Got an example?

No?

ADS got you no more than that. you still have that, but you're invested and can't break out.

You couldn't make it up.

 

[Assimilator1]

The core of the problem is that some of us enjoyed the 'tedious travel time' and want to continue to gather information by flying our spaceships around the system rather than playing a -twiddling minigame.

Prefer the new FSS personally.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can still just fly around to scan things right?, I've certainly noticed this when I've got within ~1000 Ls of some gas giants, less than 50 Ls for some moons etc. Or do you not get the full scan this way?

 

[Darkfyre99]

So what is the core of the Problem?
Honking only will reward the payment you'd get from ADSing before without further work, the presence of specific planettypes is shown on the tuning tab, no earthlike frequency means there is no ELW.

In my personal opinion, the core of the problem seems to be that with the old ADS, all the interesting things(tm) was revealed after holding down a button for a few seconds... a button that could be held down by taping it down (or the software equivalent).

The new FSS requires active manipulation by the player, interpretation of the information thus provided, and some knowledge about the game universe and astronomy to find the same interesting things, plus you can find other interesting things as well. This process also takes between ten to twenty seconds to do so, so considerably slower than the old god honk.

Alternatively, they can play a “mini game” that often takes even longer than that.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Prefer the new FSS personally.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can still just fly around to scan things right?, I've certainly noticed this when I've got within ~1000 Ls of some gas giants, less than 50 Ls for some moons etc. Or do you not get the full scan this way?

You can scan that way, yes.
However, in unexplored systems you can only find the bodies using FSS or parallax, since they don't show up on the Nav panel otherwise.

Targetable bodies that we can fly to is at the core of most requests to reintroduce the ADS.