I'm not assuming anything. There's no 4th ruin layout. They used the word "unique" because they'd only known about one type of ruin site. Then they discovered the second and the third one, said that there are total of 3 different types and shared their locations. Anyways, it's your time, you're free to waste it in any way you desire.
The Guardians: Pilots Needed (Elusive "Unique Layout")
- Thread starter CMDR Dreamstate
- Start date
Are the Guardian Structures (not the Ruins) all the same?
Yup, Canonn Research has locations of loads of them, loads of duplicates, none unique.
The logs do leave some room for doubt and word chopping, though with the Meville references, we know the white whale didn't turn out to be a mere phantom so perhaps there's something to find. Presumably Canonn are already all over the maths re: cluster ratios?
Also, now that we have space jellyfish to find, I'd love it if FDev included some void kraken or other leviathan-type entities out there in the depths.
Also, now that we have space jellyfish to find, I'd love it if FDev included some void kraken or other leviathan-type entities out there in the depths.
Yeah, if Synuefe LY-I b42-2 and Synuefe NL-N c23-4 did not between them include all three potential layouts, then it would be reasonably inferred that as Synuefe TP-F B44-0 is the last one listed, that was where they discovered a third, to them, unique, site, since it includes all three types and is listed after the others. However, they would indeed have likely discovered all three types in the first two systems, and so it does seem more plausible that the three systems listed are referenced as the mentioned "cluster", but then that leaves the question of why the log would not include the location of the "unique" layout listed alongside the systems which any given two of contain all three layouts.
Obviously, there's always the explanation of "bad proof-reading" when it comes to the writing for the logs. Which is entirely plausible.
There is an element of feedback to Frontier influencing certain things in game, such as the gnosis event of late 2018, where after realising they had made a whoopsy allowing a playergroup controlled mega ship to jump into a permit locked region, they made an event out of it, featuring a thagoid induced misjump and thargoids swarming the gnosis. Conversely, Frontier also have led us to look for things, like teasing the thargoid structures in a video, and the guardian ruins / sentinels appearing in another one. Dreamstate is IMHO simply pouring over information in the game already looking for clues to things we the playerbase may have missed already. Particularly easy to miss things when there is like 0.004% of the galaxy currently explored, and at the time of the guardian content being put in game, our main tools for finding these things were mk.I eyeball flying inverted. Later on Ram Tah developed a way for CMDR's to automatically detect guardiun things ~1000LS out from them, but that does not necessarily mean players have been at <1000LS from every guardian structure/ruins/site.
There is also the possibility that even if they have been discovered by a player, the player might not have appreciated the significance of their find, and thus not reported it. That is to say if someone like me stumbled on the guardians uinque site while looking for pattern epsillon data I wouldn't necessarly identify the site as unique, and instead just shrugged it off as just another site that did/didn't yield epsilon scan data.
So there is a very good chance that if there is something to the breadcrumbs from melvilles logs about a unique site, that we haven't knowingly discovered it yet.
No the structures are not all the same, when they were first introduced I hotfooted it to syneuffe and went on the prowl and started farming the first site I came across, and it was blinking hard work, with like 20+ sentinels, a couple of weeks later one of my in game mates came to syneuffe and overtook my collection of blueprint fragments. I asked him how he did that, he was like "simples, its only half a dozen guardian skimmery things to shoot and collect the blue print". So I went over to where he had been "working" and it was a totally different layout, and far less sentinesl, and they spawned in lesser numbers at any one given time, so where my first site had 3/4 pop up together, his only had 1/2 at a time, and a lot less of them in total per instance, and it was easier to manouvere the SRV around that other site.
So very well put! Who knows how many people have scanned a system and not realised what they found, or didn't see on their scan without looking if just casually exploring.
I would love Frontier to give us some bread crumbs :-/ there must be a way to try to find the unique layout with what we already have - or, perhaps it's just one of those awesome things in the game they dropped in and just don't want to tell us anymore...
Looking at the galaxy map, you can tell why the Guardian bubble is just below the centre plane of the galaxy - the star density is insane, so Frontier must've deliberatley put the Ruins and Structures below it because they knew it would be a titanic task for the community to go looking in such a dense area...
Currently above the Synuefe NL-N c23-4 system myself, near the galactic plane, and the star density is ridiculous - it's going to take me over a month maybe two just to carve out 150ly bubble searching those systems for that elusive layout.
Please Frontier... if there's any help you can give us, please do....
If I wasn't already so far from the Bubble, I'd probably consider this at the very least to help pass the lockdown, even if it does turn out to be futile.
I will say, the last 2 weeks of not leaving my flat have certainly shown that my time spent on long expeditions in ED is probably something I could manage IRL too. Although my T9 can probably store considerably more varied food than my real-life kitchen.
I will say, the last 2 weeks of not leaving my flat have certainly shown that my time spent on long expeditions in ED is probably something I could manage IRL too. Although my T9 can probably store considerably more varied food than my real-life kitchen.
This reminds me of a system I encountered soon after the FSS was introduced. Thankfully I stopped by one of the three ruins and scanned something to get a Codex entry so I can find it again:
I've travelled out there today will have a look later this afternoon when I have time. I think it's close to your search region.
EDIT: I visited each and took screenshots of the layout (all were in darkness, so night vision was needed). The three sites all had different layouts:
site 1:
site 2:
site 3:
EDIT: I visited each and took screenshots of the layout (all were in darkness, so night vision was needed). The three sites all had different layouts:
site 1:
Last edited:
'Unfortunatley, this is all just based on little evidence' - (from OP)
Sounds like my sort of quest, Im in.
Also Karma as just helped someone get the FSD booster BP and thought while Im here in the area Ill follow that lead from the Lady I picked up a while ago and today I found Melville ship so Im in the right area as well. Not sure Ill know its unique though.
FSS shows Guardian sites virtually instantaneously before resolving Geo/bio/none, if relying on system map it will, ahem, 'update' after it resolves the geo/bio/none scanning bit and show human or guardian or tharg etc when before it showed none. Annoyingly it will take random amounts of time for each planet even with none.
Sounds like my sort of quest, Im in.
Also Karma as just helped someone get the FSD booster BP and thought while Im here in the area Ill follow that lead from the Lady I picked up a while ago and today I found Melville ship so Im in the right area as well. Not sure Ill know its unique though.
FSS shows Guardian sites virtually instantaneously before resolving Geo/bio/none, if relying on system map it will, ahem, 'update' after it resolves the geo/bio/none scanning bit and show human or guardian or tharg etc when before it showed none. Annoyingly it will take random amounts of time for each planet even with none.
Okay folks...
Not exactly a new lead, but I do have something else other than the Melville Logs to go by.
In the latest mission to discover more lore on the Guardians, this was in 23/28... (I re-read them for any hints)... I've highlighted, in bold, the important bits.
"23/28 : Technology Log – Starship Technology This log is unusual – it appears to refer to another group of Guardian sites, far from the ones we’ve already discovered. I realise that might sound disappointing, but in fact this find is extremely important. The log suggests these undiscovered sites might contain blueprints not only for Guardian engines, but for Guardian starships! Just think — someday soon, we might uncover a Guardian ruin that will allow us to manufacture ships and fighters incorporating Guardian technology. It makes my skin prickle just to think of it. And who knows — maybe you’ll be the one to find it."
You can listen to the logs here: https://canonn.science/codex/guardians-codex/
Notice the italic and underlines on it before the aformentioned "Someday soon, we might uncover a Guardian ruin" (my take on this: Ancient Ruin - the Unique Layout).
This is definitley deliberate, considering it was all voice acted. We already have access to Guardian Fighters... But not a "Ship". IT must be hard to find, and not only that, but there must already be designs for a new ship to be implimented - a Guardian style ship!
This has made me more certain than ever that a Guardian Ship can be obtained, but only if we find the Guardian Ruin - that Unique Layout.
After all, the blueprint is called "Guardian Vessels" not "Guardian Fighter" - ambiguous, is it not?
Not exactly a new lead, but I do have something else other than the Melville Logs to go by.
In the latest mission to discover more lore on the Guardians, this was in 23/28... (I re-read them for any hints)... I've highlighted, in bold, the important bits.
"23/28 : Technology Log – Starship Technology This log is unusual – it appears to refer to another group of Guardian sites, far from the ones we’ve already discovered. I realise that might sound disappointing, but in fact this find is extremely important. The log suggests these undiscovered sites might contain blueprints not only for Guardian engines, but for Guardian starships! Just think — someday soon, we might uncover a Guardian ruin that will allow us to manufacture ships and fighters incorporating Guardian technology. It makes my skin prickle just to think of it. And who knows — maybe you’ll be the one to find it."
You can listen to the logs here: https://canonn.science/codex/guardians-codex/
Notice the italic and underlines on it before the aformentioned "Someday soon, we might uncover a Guardian ruin" (my take on this: Ancient Ruin - the Unique Layout).
This is definitley deliberate, considering it was all voice acted. We already have access to Guardian Fighters... But not a "Ship". IT must be hard to find, and not only that, but there must already be designs for a new ship to be implimented - a Guardian style ship!
This has made me more certain than ever that a Guardian Ship can be obtained, but only if we find the Guardian Ruin - that Unique Layout.
After all, the blueprint is called "Guardian Vessels" not "Guardian Fighter" - ambiguous, is it not?
Okay folks, I may have a little more to go on after going over my notes, and re-thinking some aspects since reading all 101 logs again - the most significant being the information in the 28 latest ones.
After careful consideration, there could be two other potential areas to search, besides the area stated at the begenning of this thread.
I believe there is an order to follow with the Ancient Ruins, which ones come first.
As follows:
The first Ancient Ruin to pay attention to is this one - Gamma is the start of the map:
I will break down what this means:
I believe the two symbols to represent the Progressives and Abolitionists. These are extremely important, they represent TWO clans.
This is how the system map looks, comparing the Guardian Structures to the Ancient Ruins (Shrines):
As you can see, aside from the few clusters of Ancient Ruins in Progressive space (likely warzones in the second civil war), the Abolitionist "bubble" has no such Gaurdian Structures, and they surround Regor.
So, with that said, I'm strongly thinking more than ever that my old research was on to something with the symbols:
We have the first important piece of information because of Gamma - (hypothesizing) we have a map of the Guardian bubble, plus each tribe involved in the conflict - and, as you can see circled, it includes that messy mound above them, which I personally think represents the Vela Dark Region Nebula.
When you insert the image, above, ontop of a shot of the 3D map, it is very accurate:
However, this also now gives us an ORIENTATION for the next step!
The second ruin to go by now is BETA:
With a little amateur magic on photoshop...
This then leads onto the system with, potentially, the Unique Layout - the bonus is the Homeworld to boot (highly unlikely, but then this leads us onto the ALPHA type of ruin...
If the other Ancient Ruins represented 1) a bubble map layout, and 2) a direction with a pointed capstone one you had tilted the symbols, then 3) must be the final location - which brings us to this old chestnut of Alpha Ancient Ruin - everyone has long suspected it is a map of a system - but, of the Unique Layouts location or... maybe something more?
This, of course, brings me back to Melville - truth be told, we don't know the direction he was following - up, down, left, right, we just don't know.
So, the original area of searching is still viable - however, I would say some new search areas should be invested in:
1) Above the centre of Regor (where I am now)
or 2) Go 150-200 Lightyears straight up from Melville's position and start searching - chances are, he was heading downwards (further exploring the other capstone in the Beta image is what I suspect).
After careful consideration, there could be two other potential areas to search, besides the area stated at the begenning of this thread.
I believe there is an order to follow with the Ancient Ruins, which ones come first.
As follows:
The first Ancient Ruin to pay attention to is this one - Gamma is the start of the map:
I will break down what this means:
I believe the two symbols to represent the Progressives and Abolitionists. These are extremely important, they represent TWO clans.
This is how the system map looks, comparing the Guardian Structures to the Ancient Ruins (Shrines):
As you can see, aside from the few clusters of Ancient Ruins in Progressive space (likely warzones in the second civil war), the Abolitionist "bubble" has no such Gaurdian Structures, and they surround Regor.
So, with that said, I'm strongly thinking more than ever that my old research was on to something with the symbols:
We have the first important piece of information because of Gamma - (hypothesizing) we have a map of the Guardian bubble, plus each tribe involved in the conflict - and, as you can see circled, it includes that messy mound above them, which I personally think represents the Vela Dark Region Nebula.
When you insert the image, above, ontop of a shot of the 3D map, it is very accurate:
However, this also now gives us an ORIENTATION for the next step!
The second ruin to go by now is BETA:
With a little amateur magic on photoshop...
This then leads onto the system with, potentially, the Unique Layout - the bonus is the Homeworld to boot (highly unlikely, but then this leads us onto the ALPHA type of ruin...
If the other Ancient Ruins represented 1) a bubble map layout, and 2) a direction with a pointed capstone one you had tilted the symbols, then 3) must be the final location - which brings us to this old chestnut of Alpha Ancient Ruin - everyone has long suspected it is a map of a system - but, of the Unique Layouts location or... maybe something more?
This, of course, brings me back to Melville - truth be told, we don't know the direction he was following - up, down, left, right, we just don't know.
So, the original area of searching is still viable - however, I would say some new search areas should be invested in:
1) Above the centre of Regor (where I am now)
or 2) Go 150-200 Lightyears straight up from Melville's position and start searching - chances are, he was heading downwards (further exploring the other capstone in the Beta image is what I suspect).
Last edited:
I decided to investigate below the Galactic Plane this week (just for the view) and have encountered a cluster of systems with brain trees at about -680 LY down: Synuefe OY-H d10-13 (planet 1)
Synuefe OY-H d10-14 (planet A 1)
Synuefe OY-H d10-12 (planet 4)
Synuefe OY-H d10-16 (moon B 1 a)
I'm checking the vicinity for Ancient Ruins, prioritising systems with multiple stars, but so far no luck. Should I expect any ruins to be within 70 LY or can it be further? The star density is low enough that I can probably search half the systems today, then I'm heading back to the Bubble for the Lore Tour tomorrow (though I can pop back at the weekend).
Is it even significant that a site might be down here? I still need to check Canonn's database to see if one is known around here but I don't remember one from last time I checked.
EDIT: checked Canonn's latest map. This is 300LY further down than any Guardians site there.
EDIT 2: additional brain tree systems from today's exploration:
Synuefe OY-H d10-19 (moon 1 a)
Synuefe OY-H d10-17 (moon ABCD 1 b)
Synuefe MW-A b44-0 (planet B 1)
Synuefe RC--Z b44-0 (moon A 5 a)
EDIT 3 (4th April): more brain tree locations, running out of systems to check for Ancient Ruins (if there's only one ruin)
Synuefe EI-O c21-4 (moon B 5 a)
Synuefe HQ-C (might be HQ-L, terrible handwritten notes!) b43-0 (C 2 a)
Synuefe EI-O c21-1 (1 a)
Synuefe HT-M c22-0 (3)
Synuefe OY-H d10-3 (2)
Synuefe OY-H d10-10 (A 9 a)
EDIT 4 (5th April): it seems there are two clusters of brain tree systems, so finding a ruins system is going to take a lot more work:
Synuefe MA-E b42-0 (C 1)
Synuefe DX-P c20-3 (1)
Synuefe YN-G b41-0 (1)
Synuefe PY-H d10-12 (A 3)
Synuefe PY-H d10-11 (1)
Synuefe PY-H d10-7 (A 1 a)
EDIT 5 (7th April): have searched well away from these clusters at same Galactic Latitude and still found brain trees, so I don't think these are a sign of nearby Guardians sites.
Synuefe KL-C b43-0 (1)
Synuefe ZB-Q c20-0 (1)
Synuefe ZY-E b42-0 (A 3)
Synuefe XY-E b42-1 (1)
Synuefe WI-G b41-0 (A 3 a)
more distant brain trees away from these:
Synuefe VE-P d6-0 (ABCD 2 b a)
Synuefe BD-A b31-0 (C4)
Synuefe OY-H d10-14 (planet A 1)
Synuefe OY-H d10-12 (planet 4)
Synuefe OY-H d10-16 (moon B 1 a)
I'm checking the vicinity for Ancient Ruins, prioritising systems with multiple stars, but so far no luck. Should I expect any ruins to be within 70 LY or can it be further? The star density is low enough that I can probably search half the systems today, then I'm heading back to the Bubble for the Lore Tour tomorrow (though I can pop back at the weekend).
Is it even significant that a site might be down here? I still need to check Canonn's database to see if one is known around here but I don't remember one from last time I checked.
EDIT: checked Canonn's latest map. This is 300LY further down than any Guardians site there.
EDIT 2: additional brain tree systems from today's exploration:
Synuefe OY-H d10-19 (moon 1 a)
Synuefe OY-H d10-17 (moon ABCD 1 b)
Synuefe MW-A b44-0 (planet B 1)
Synuefe RC--Z b44-0 (moon A 5 a)
EDIT 3 (4th April): more brain tree locations, running out of systems to check for Ancient Ruins (if there's only one ruin)
Synuefe EI-O c21-4 (moon B 5 a)
Synuefe HQ-C (might be HQ-L, terrible handwritten notes!) b43-0 (C 2 a)
Synuefe EI-O c21-1 (1 a)
Synuefe HT-M c22-0 (3)
Synuefe OY-H d10-3 (2)
Synuefe OY-H d10-10 (A 9 a)
EDIT 4 (5th April): it seems there are two clusters of brain tree systems, so finding a ruins system is going to take a lot more work:
Synuefe MA-E b42-0 (C 1)
Synuefe DX-P c20-3 (1)
Synuefe YN-G b41-0 (1)
Synuefe PY-H d10-12 (A 3)
Synuefe PY-H d10-11 (1)
Synuefe PY-H d10-7 (A 1 a)
EDIT 5 (7th April): have searched well away from these clusters at same Galactic Latitude and still found brain trees, so I don't think these are a sign of nearby Guardians sites.
Synuefe KL-C b43-0 (1)
Synuefe ZB-Q c20-0 (1)
Synuefe ZY-E b42-0 (A 3)
Synuefe XY-E b42-1 (1)
Synuefe WI-G b41-0 (A 3 a)
more distant brain trees away from these:
Synuefe VE-P d6-0 (ABCD 2 b a)
Synuefe BD-A b31-0 (C4)
Last edited:
some of have done thousands of hours on projects... with no confirmation on being right or wrong. they have either forsaken us or think this game should represent real life - where everyone tells you, "you're wrong." and maybe --- you'll have enough proof to show otherwise.
We spent a couple weeks triangulated a voice in a 60 second loop in PLSRs over a year ago - I finally asked four of their sound-guys if we were close to the mystery - they confirmed it was an error, they weren't that clever, and it would be fixed. which was really nice of them. sucks to spend weeks with friends solving puzzle, only to find out it was a programmer error.
It does take a lot of patience 
thank you for your help!
thank you for your help!As updated in post 41 above, my survey below the Galactic Plane for any Ancient Ruins associated with the brain trees I've found is getting longer, not shorter. It may be that there are multiple ruins sites, or is it just Synuefe sector itself behaving this way and generating life regardless?
There is still a day before the beta starts so I can keep looking for at least that long. I'm returning to the Bubble once a week for the Lore Tour atm and to cash in data.
EDIT: I moved over 200LY away at the same Galactic Latitude and still found brain trees, so I am not now convinced that the above biological sites are related to the presence of Guardians sites. It seems Synuefe is simply producing them wherever the conditions are right.
There is still a day before the beta starts so I can keep looking for at least that long. I'm returning to the Bubble once a week for the Lore Tour atm and to cash in data.
EDIT: I moved over 200LY away at the same Galactic Latitude and still found brain trees, so I am not now convinced that the above biological sites are related to the presence of Guardians sites. It seems Synuefe is simply producing them wherever the conditions are right.
Last edited: