The Old Elite IV speculation thread

[Darkman]

I would recommend that the game starts off as quite a simple affair, with the ability for it to expand over time.

Most definitely, there are so many great ideas that can be implemented in to Elite IV that Frontier won't be able to put them all in - unless you are willing to wait another decade or so . When developers mention that they've had to leave some good ideas out because of time and money, then expansion packs are the logical way to go. Get the main release out and bolt on the rest of the ideas over time that way. At least then they will be generating extra income from the extra development time .

 

[rgmarett]

Yeah I'm wrong. I thought I read it on IGN so I went back over their old articles and realised I'd miss read it....it did seem silly at the time and now I know why.

But that's good, means they dropped the '2' for the right reasons.

 

[Neo1967]

I go with OzFalcon: Keep It Simple Stupid. I really hope that Elite IV will in the first place retain the concept of an open universe where you can choose your own destiny and develop your business. Like in a flight sim like MS Flight Simulator. And of course: (much much) more eye candy...

 

[The Space Pirate]

Elite IV - it just sounds so...right!

 

[OzFalcon]

New business model?

Just on the topic of Piracy......

I think this could be handled in a novel way.......
This only applies to the (MMO) Multi player version.

You give the game away.
Console users can buy a DVD ($10 nominal production costs)
PC users can download for free. (And possibly DVD available too)

You can play the game fully. No cost.
But you are a "Lawless" citizen. (Aka Pirate).
You can trade/pirate/group together (*Special Note)
There are special Pirate missions to participate in etc.

You, at any time, Can purchase a "Faction Licence"
ie. you sign up (Online payment) to the Empire or Federation etc etc.

This gives you access to Faction Missions. Other dynamics could be
employed (conflict of interest cause you faction political problems) if
you join up to two factions at any one time.

* Special Note *
These lawless citizens are actually used to Populate the game arena.
Think of them as intelligent AI players at no extra CPU load!
It also provides the "Hook" to get people into the game. Once the
player is in (Playing) the game, You are more than half way to getting
that next sale.

 

[Alien]

Re: Piracy
OzFalcon,
What is wrong with buying the game in a shop,
installing the game and typing in a long code
printed on the game manual at the beginning of the install process ?
If I then wanted to play MMO, no two codes would be the same.

I don't mind downloading Oolite (23MB),
but not Elite IV (poss 4GB), as I use a PAYG modem with a download limit.
To download 4GB, i'd have to pay £30.
then if I had to re-install the game, potentially another £30.
Also my download speeds are terrible, i could be waiting a week to download it.

So what is wrong with just buying the 4GB dvd in a shop ?

 

[OzFalcon]

Old and broken

Point One.
That method is broken. Just look at all the fake codes for Half Life -
"Which impacted on multi player". I personally suffered from this.
ie Purchased HL Game of the year edition. Found my code already
registered. Couldn't play online. No amount of emails made it any better.
That's one of the reasons Valve setup Steam etc.

Point Two.
>>>PC users can download for free. (And possibly DVD available too)
You don't read very carefully do you?

So if download is a problem, You wander down to the shop and pay $10
or whatever for your copy. The $10 simply covers Disc pressing & distrib.


MMO's get stale pretty quickly if there is no new and fresh content.
WOW worked this out pretty early. And you can't deny it's success.

And you can't expect game developers to keep producing online
interactive fresh content for their MMO for free for ever.

(Paying up front cost for the single player version is fine - It's a one off work)

Remember, This is different from buying a game that just has on line capacity.
eg. Counterstrike, UT etc. where you can set up your own server.
*note*, if the multi player elite was released as this type of game.
Then I'd also expect a one off purchase price. Who got to run the servers
would be an issue though. And I'd only be happy if we could also run our
own servers.

But we are talking about a MMO,
And I think it's a bit unfair to think you can buy a game that is expected to
have ongoing content updates (Required else the MMO dies) for a set
price - And expect that sale to last you for "Many Games Worth" of
content in the years that follow.

 

[Alien]

Point Two.
>>>PC users can download for free. (And possibly DVD available too)
You don't read very carefully do you?

I find that line a bit insulting, to be honest.
As I am thinking you may not have read my post very carefully,
I'll explain it again (just for you)

I would have no problem downloading a game (up to 4GB for example)
if my modem was a) nice and fast, say like in Japan - 50MegaBits/per sec
and b) Unlimited download limit (not fair use policy)
As my modem is not a) or b) I avoid downloading large files.
Even many landlines in the UK are not a) or b) so I feel my point is valid.

As for your HL registration code being stolen, I sympathise with you.
I could come up with solution after solution to try and solve it,
but the reality is no matter what the games industry does to combat this,
it will always happen. There is no easy solution.

You mentioned walking to a shop and paying for a disc, exactly what I said too.

In summary, it is my opinion that online play would be viable if the
hardware & costs were at levels to make the experience enjoyable, but they are not.

 

[Tikigod]

One way to reduce the chance of getting bad codes is to remove retailers out of the equation, as most of the time this is where the code was intercepted and used by someone else before being sold in a new shiny protective packet.

So in the case of Elite, one could purchase the game from FD via their online store.
This then generates a key for them to use which is tied to their account and also e-mailed to them as part of the transaction invoice... what you're purchasing is the key.

Providing production costs can be controled and don't lead to FD making a loss, they could then offer two forms of distribution upon purchasing a key, Digitial Distribution, or physical DvD (With standard P&P costs added for shipping).

This way if one really is concerned about their key being intercepted when buying a boxed copy from a 3rd party retailer, they also have the option of purchasing a key electronically directly from the developers which is generated on the spot and tied directly to their account on creation.

Then for those with problems with using ISPs that still live in the dark ages of slow download speeds and download limitis (Becoming more and more unusual even for us in the UK), can have a single DVD is a small paper jacket posted to them for a small extra fee to cover P&P costs.

Of course as always, those less concerned about retailers and getting 2nd hand keys they can't use can also just wander into their nearest retailer store and purchase the full blown impressive boxed copy with fancy art on the front, and paper manual.

The key is providing multiple options, not creating one option meant to solve everything.

 

[Alien]

Thank-you Tikigod,
I was thinking of something similar and more complicated.
I still believe that there is no perfect solution to piracy.

 

[Tikigod]

Unfortunately you are right, there is no perfect solution to piracy.

It's far too much a accepted thing nowadays because now your average Joe blogs who doesn't know the first thing about computers, able to get their hands on any thing online quickly and without any complications.

The most effective solution to piracy in my eyes, is to actually build a strong reputation and be respected by your customers, but even then that doesn't solve the problem it simply reduces the number of those that will do it as well as isolates those that do to a extent.

If anything, the recent behaviour of groups such as EA who parade complicated and restrictive methods has only seemed to of made piracy more accepted by gamers, because they feel they're being treated poorly for spending their money, so why spend it?

Take the effect EAs restrictions on Mass Effect had on the PC fans who wanted to purchase the title untill they were told by Bioware the only way they were allowed to release it was with a limited number of activations due to EAs rules, and that after that number of activations, further requests had to be directed to EA support and would be granted on a case by case basis.

Many decided right there and then that whilst they loved Bioware, they would not reward EA for punishing its customers... yet they still ended up playing Mass Effect.. infact by deciding they would not pay EA for the right to play many discovered they could even play before it officially launched.... Chances are those that did it for Mass Effect will follow the same behaviour they did for further EA titles in the future, even if/when EA change their policy. The damage was already done, EA and more importantly Bioware and all other EA tied development houses are probably still being punished for it and will continue to be, for a long time to come because of that one experience.

 

[OzFalcon]

Eh?

What are you complaining about?

1) I mention options to get game. (Including DVD)

2) You complain about "downloading" like it's the ONLY option I mentioned.

3) I Point out that I said purchasing DVD was an option.

4) Then you acknowledge that I said DVD was an option...... (Duh no joke!)



Now, Back to the KEY issue.
I still believe a KEY issued with the game is a flawed system.
It's an old system. And it's only a matter of time before KEY's
are cracked or fall foul to some other exploit.

And the MOST IMPORTANT POINT:
Once you have your key, Do you expect FD to continue to produce
new free MMO content for the rest of time?


The newer "Registration" method (aka Eve online and WOW) is the way to go.
(This way you get an ID that is tied to your account. Rather than a once off "KEY")


But we can leave it at that. As we agree to disagree on the KEY issue.

 

[deej]

The current trend appears to be online registration & online purchase & then online authentication before you play. It also appears that dev companies are moving away from those platforms they consider to be rife with piracy, ie: the PC and some handheld systems. The days of buying discs & cartridges are declining because the two-fold advantages of keeping game prices @ the recommended retail price, and the effective removal of a second hand game market via online distribution is just too big a temptation for the companies.

To extrapolate further, game's will most likely stay on company servers and your client device (pc/handheld/phone/etc) will merely access the game via client interface/software. Payment will likely be either a one off payment (to enter) or many smaller payments (usage based).

Piracy will still exist of course, focus will probably shift to access/network piracy due to less warez? ...time will tell.

 

[DraQ]

The days of buying discs & cartridges are declining because the two-fold advantages of keeping game prices @ the recommended retail price, and the effective removal of a second hand game market via online distribution is just too big a temptation for the companies.

Irresistible temptation, you'd say?

To extrapolate further, game's will most likely stay on company servers and your client device (pc/handheld/phone/etc) will merely access the game via client interface/software. Payment will likely be either a one off payment (to enter) or many smaller payments (usage based).

To extrapolate even further - piracy will shift towards creating copies that run a fake server on client's machine, and given human ingenuity I don't doubt the leaks will inexplicably be just comfortable enough for pirates.
Same features, no payment, no hassle with connection, servers eventually going down or disciplinary actions against your account because you got silly and arranged your inventory items in a swastika.

Piracy is one of the things you can't really fight - you can at best reduce and work around it by providing legitimate consumers with big enough carrot - hitting them with a stick due to actual culprits being unavailable is not really viable strategy, as many companies would be learning if they were able to learn anything, and making legitimate users jump through the hoops, potentially cripple their system security and features, then lose ability to use the product they paid for is just that.

Then, the complaints about rampant piracy ensue.
Nice job breaking it heroes.

In the end people prefer buying a game to renting it, just as most people are unreasonably adverse to renting beer.

 

[Callum Rowley]

There are several ways developers and publishers can look to combat piracy, one being online registration of your game to be awarded in-game items and rewards (model works for both PC and Console releases) and other incentives such as first-look content. Then there is the online-payment model where the consumer pays for regular updates / downloadable or episodic content.

It's important to remember all models have their issues however. Though MMOG companies might not get hit by people downloading and playing their games for free, they're still constantly battling fraudulent activity - charge backs etc. Piracy is a tough one to crack, but something developers and publishers are always looking at.

I heard people are unable to pirate on the PS3, does anyone know if this is true?

 

[Bitmag]

May i post ideas to elite4?

Is it possible to post and discuss any ideas about developing elite4 here ?

 

[bananascope]

indeed. a rather large and intresting thread is already on here, heres the link

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=86

 

[Geraldine]

I voted yes as it would be nice to receive news on how things are progressing. Mind you I am looking forward to being surprised too on its eventual release. After all, we all have our own ideas on what Elite IV might be like, how close (or not) those thoughts are to what actually appears, maintains a little mystery, which I think is also a good thing. It would give the devs a bit of breathing room at least.

 

[deej]

I'm a little apprehensive at the possibilities of spoilers if it was a true dev blog unless of course the blogger was *super* careful to not give anything away.

I think I would much rather see a timeline simply describing what areas of the game were being looked at different times (purely as a means of confirmation that the game is in development)

 

[Sir.Tj]

So, would you guys at Frontier consider this? Would be nice to get a small bit of information for the patient members of this forum.