Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

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Mouse

Mouse
IndigoWyrd said:
The bottom line can be summed up in three simple words:

Not
Gonna
Happen

Frontier has been quite clear on this. You have a problem with untouchable solo players messing with the BGS? Work harder. Because they have to work harder to influence it too - no option to Wing, no backup to call, they're on their own in solo mode.

Private groups got ya down, kicked you out, won't let you in? Just work harder, because they have to work harder too due to fewer numbers.

Open has it easy - sure you may not know friend from foe, but you've got the numbers on your side. Of course, this means not being a to everyone you meet and actually cooperating, but hey, you'll figure it out.

/discussion
/thread
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Well said, but there will always be those who complain.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
IndigoWyrd said:
The bottom line can be summed up in three simple words:

Not
Gonna
Happen

Frontier has been quite clear on this. You have a problem with untouchable solo players messing with the BGS? Work harder. Because they have to work harder to influence it too - no option to Wing, no backup to call, they're on their own in solo mode.

Private groups got ya down, kicked you out, won't let you in? Just work harder, because they have to work harder too due to fewer numbers.

Open has it easy - sure you may not know friend from foe, but you've got the numbers on your side. Of course, this means not being a to everyone you meet and actually cooperating, but hey, you'll figure it out.

/discussion
/thread
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Noooo! What have you done? We had Lestat ressurect the thread a couple of weeks back, and now you've just done it again!

And to top it all off you put /thread on something that was already slumbering.

In the words of the immortal sage, Homer Simpson: Doh!!!!
 

Jockey79

Jockey79
Oh go on then, as I've not done it in a while (and no one clicks the link in my sig either).
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Before we get in to Frontier promoting and defending the mode system and mode switching for Elite: Dangerous (plus other related information), a quick look at the history of; and tech used to bring you this game (explains why some things are not possible).

[video=youtube_share;EvJPyjmfdz0]https://youtu.be/EvJPyjmfdz0[/video]

Thanks to Roybe for for the link to the video.

The Wall of Information;

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
*Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

Some Dev comments from the Kickstarter;
attachment.php


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1681441
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1705397
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1705551
DarkWalker said:
The part about it being as much a MMO as CoD is already in your Wall of Text, the second KS post. His exact words were "I don't see this as an MMO in the traditional sense, unless you think of Call of Duty as an MMO."

About he not wanting to call it a MMO early on, well, besides that very post hinting at it, and the Kickstart page not using that term even once, I remember hearing it in old video interviews from the KS era. The "I don't see it as an MMO in the traditional sense" line came out quite a few times before fans managed to finally convince DB that Elite Dangerous, as pitched, would qualify as an actual MMO.

There are other interesting things to find in those old interviews. For example, just from the Gary Whitta interview with David Braben and Chris Roberts, you have:
(Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Part 4)

As reference for the following quote, here is Chris Roberts speaking about the Star Citizen equivalent of this thread (part 3, 5:30):
"And the key is kind of what David alluded to, which I think it's a debate that David has with his community and it's a debate I have with my community because there is definitely this whole sort of PvP and PvE sort of factions that go on and they're all pretty rabid. And so I think, and I think David also believes that you can sort of create a game that can cater to both sets of players and it will be okay. But it certainly is, that is, I would say if I were going to give you a touchpaper to set up a fight with your community that's the one to do it."

The immediate follow up by DB about PvE groups (part 3, 6:01):
"Well, the discussions have come up already. We have this concept of groups where you can join a group which doesn't allow or does allow it on the user choice."

Or this about the kind of game DB would want to play (part 3, 7:09):
"You know, so what I would I want from a game? I want to be able to play a great game without being griefed by teenagers, but having said that I do want there to be a feeling of risk out there."

Also this about what player interaction in ED was supposed to be about (part 3, 2:06):
"And so, I don’t mean necessarily every ship should be a player because then you get into a frame of mind that you can’t kill anything without really upsetting someone. I mean with Elite: Dangerous it’s still…a lot of the ships you encounter won’t be real players but we will call out, of the ships that you meet, who is a real player. We have a way of distinguishing them within the game. They’re actually part of this group of pilots that you’re part of and it will call out, above them say. Essentially what it means is “this is a real player,” but in the game fabric: “so this is a group who a member of the same organization as you.” We…you know, in other words we, we don’t want this game to be all about player vs. player kills, but the point is it encourages a lot of cooperation. And, it will be possible to do player vs. player kills if that’s what people want to do. "
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From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01) Plus how the Galaxy will evolve over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18
"DB explicitly said that solo players would be able to do community goals, though back then they weren't called that. Dev Diary Video #2, at the 4:10 mark."

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (Twitch Video now removed, YT link for it below)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/

( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJzizYUEF9c EGX2014 Video, 30 minutes long)

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously .

The Steam Store page;

attachment.php


Please note, "Single Player" and "Multiplayer" with "Co-op".
So not just an "MMO"


Dev comments;
Michael Brookes said:
Numi said:
Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.
Click to expand...

No.

Michael
Click to expand...

Michael Brookes said:
Robert Maynard said:
Thanks for that clarity Michael.

Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?
Click to expand...

We're not planning on changing that.

Michael
Click to expand...

David Braben said:
We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too.
Click to expand...


E3 2015 Interview (17th June 2015);

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/0...-david-braben/

View attachment 98946

PowerPlay AMA related links regarding Modes and Powerplay;

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=106524&page=27&p=1663438#post1663438
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140032&page=22&p=2145448&viewfull=1#post2145448
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140032&page=25&p=2145528&viewfull=1#post2145528

The overall thread topic (+ How XB1 fits);
On that last point, Producer Ben Dowie reiterated that Xbox One and PC players won’t be playing head-to-head—although they’ll be playing in the same simulated universe, they’ll never encounter each other in space, likely because Microsoft’s Xbox patch cycle adds complexity to Frontier’s game update procedure. This means that PC players and Xbox players will often wind up on different clients, which means no head-to-head play. To that end, anticipated PC-centric features will likely land on PC first.
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And regarding the game design;

I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”
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To highlight something from that above quote;

“You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play."

Here is a quote from Zac Antonaci for the "game is dying" pro-claimers.
Dated 10th July 2015;

Zac Antonaci said:
FRED said:
They need to be.


Look at the current posts on the subreddit and the forum. Your core player base is simply stopping playing. You might be selling copies but if your core community is splitting or stopping playing then you have a problem.
Click to expand...
Hey Fred,


I wanted to reply to this honestly if I may.


I'm not going to be talking about active player numbers explicitally but I can tell you without question that the game has a very healthy and thriving community who enjoys hours upon hours of Elite. You really don't need to worry on that point.


<snip>


Zac
Click to expand...

And a nice, clear, concise comment from Michael Brookes regarding the modes;

Michael Brookes said:
From the initial inception of the game we have considered all play modes are equally valid choices. While we are aware that some players disagree, this hasn't changed for us.

Michael
Click to expand...
Dev Update 6th August 2015 (https://community.elitedangerous.com/node/248);
Dev Update (6th Aug 2015) Last Paragraph said:
What we are doing is new in many ways, both technically and in terms of how we are realizing our long term ambitions for Elite Dangerous. As we evolve the game we are trying to give the best value we can to both existing and new players, for the long term benefit of everyone. That’s why we’ve worked hard to keep backwards compatibility for the Elite Dangerous: Horizons season, and are continuing to release updates for ‘season one’ players. Everyone will continue to fly in the same galaxy, and be impacted by, participate in and help to drive the same events.
Click to expand...
(I added the bold / underline in the quote to highlight the last line)


Reddit AMA from X-Box One launch, in relation to the Back Ground Simulation and Modes;
https://np.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/3nlmdg/its_frontier_developments_developers_of_elite/

attachment.php


^^ So PC/Mac and X-Box One impact the same live simulation, but cannot actually play together or see each other.

attachment.php


^^ X-Box One also has "Solo Mode" and is recommended by FD Devs for when you do not want to play with other people.

Horizons Live Stream;
(RE: Question about ED being an MMO)

ANTHONYCSHEEHY said:
DB was asked a question "Is Elite and MMORPG?" in the LiveStream tonight.

[video=youtube_share;RdP1DmRYco8]https://youtu.be/RdP1DmRYco8[/video]

He answered it like this:

19:42
"Well I think the problem is this: Different people mean different things by saying MMOs, you know. I think we're massive (19:53) by most measures, in terms of we have a lot of people playing, all at the same time. We have instancing, but then you know so does every other or every MMO out there. (20:10) The case, you know, you look at the way Warcraft does it. Now the case is (20:15) where do you set the number. So currently it's you know around 32 players in a session plus NPCs and all that sort of thing. (20:23) You know we could go higher if it weren't for the NPCs, we could go higher if people had perfect network connections. You know if we had a LAN we could go way higher. You know this is the point. (20:31) And it's a case of balancing the experience and also how much data you have to exchange. You know it's a quality of the experience that I expect over time we will increase it.

"But are we an MMO? I think we are by all measures."

Ed speaks and then David adds:

"It's not an RPG in a sense that (21:09) you increase your personal stats but a lot of people play it as a role playing game. I think if that's what you want it to be then so it is I suppose. I don't think it really matters. Someone said 'That's a silly question. Such a waste of time.' Well there you go."
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Engineers Live Stream;

[video=youtube;n7tGV7VVlhE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7tGV7VVlhE[/video]



 

Deadspin

Deadspin
MRW someone triggers Jockey and reignites the worst thread on the forum.

a4uo7WF.gif


IT'S BEEN A DEAD TOPIC FOR MONTHS YOU MONSTERS. LET IT BE! LET IT REST IN PEACE!
 
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Comrade Napoleon

Comrade Napoleon
Biglyest, Badlyies Necro in the last 24 hours!!!

That horse has sailed a long time ago with all the coal from Newcastle, naked women and broken glass..
"I think its dead!
Ohh no its napping"

Ohh gawd!

Cheers Cmdr's
 

Jockey79

Jockey79
Theodrid said:
Okay, who got Jockey wet or fed him after midnight?
Click to expand...

Alas, someone every few months has this "new", "great" idea that "no one else" has ever thought about... messing with the mode system to boost opens population.

Though you have to give me some credit, I skipped the last 2 times I had an excuse to paste The Wall of Information.
I just told people to click the link in my sig... not that anyone ever does mind you :p

See, now we are all good for the next couple of resurrections ;) lol
 

verminstar

Banned
verminstar
Robert Maynard said:
While this thread may have been dormant, calls for mode bonuses, Open Only Powerplay, etc. still surface....
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Just another day in the forums although there does appear to be a more aggressive push by open players lately.

I'm rapidly learning to just ignore them now...it's been explained and debated until the horse has been reduced to a bloody carcass, and then tenderised to make steaks with baseball bats...then the steaks were beaten before they were served.

Just another day on the forums...

On a lighter note, I joined a player group last night, not möbius either...anyway who's making a cuppa tea? Mines strong, wee taste of cow juice and 2 sugars there's a good chap ^
 

Vorxian

Vorxian
Agony_Aunt said:
Oh, is open dead or dying again? :D
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I thought a technical issue meant that SOLO and GROUP were currently down. The only mode working right now is OPEN.

:D

A stealth "Yaow now be comin' to OPEN y'hear all" !

Meanwhile; the amount of reported combat logging reaches a new high..

chart.jpg

puzzled.gif


:D
 

Flavourless

Flavourless
To be fair, this thread is a cat compared to the pre-release offline one. (can't believe the swear filter did that)
And like that one, this will be deleted in time, and all the wailing will subside.
 
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Deadspin

Deadspin
Flavourless said:
To be fair, this thread is a cat compared to the pre-release offline one. (can't believe the swear filter did that)
And like that one, this will be deleted in time, and all the wailing will subside.
Click to expand...

Considering that Yaffle opened this one up in December of 2015 and that it's megathread #4, I think you may be wrong.

PG/Solo -V- Open will never not be an argument so long as Solo/PG players and Open players disagree on what they think the game needs.

Maynard: I say reroll the game so that we don't have Engineers and it will be exponentially better.
 
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