The problem of Interdiction by hackers and how it can be helped

[Bigmaec]

A hack that has gone through multiple revisions since 2018. Its not the same version of the hack. The hack devs keep needing to update it as FD keep breaking it.

FD are doing stuff against the hack, they are issuing bans to people. Source: Cheat forums.

Three day bans to solo...
Shadow bans...

LMAO

 

[Factabulous]

Three day bans to solo...
Shadow bans...

LMAO

Why do you dismiss shadowbans?

 

[Bigmaec]

Why do you dismiss shadowbans?

Because I think a shadow ban isn't a strong deterrent, you still can play the game.
Also I think those are temporary too, but if permanent, I stand corrected.

 

[Factabulous]

Because I think a shadow ban isn't a strong deterrent, you still can play the game.
Also I think those are temporary too, but if permanent, I stand corrected.

Mails I've seen were permanent. And while you can play you can only kill npcs (which hardly needs cheats) and you can't affect bgs etc. Seems enough to me - solo as a warning, Shadow if you continue. Though there's still the issue of whether people get caught

 

[Northpin]

I find shadow bans really clever.
It's like solo, but without any influence on BGS/PP

And if i'm not mistaken, after multiple strikes it can became permanent

 

[Bigmaec]

I guess I'm miffed that there is a multi-strike system at all concerning client hacking.
For exploiting I think it's ok, but for using a hack? Hmmmm...

 

[Lestat]

I find shadow bans really clever.
It's like solo, but without any influence on BGS/PP

And if i'm not mistaken, after multiple strikes it can became permanent

That what I remember back in 2013 before Elite Dangerous was Born.

 

[Factabulous]

I guess I'm miffed that there is a multi-strike system at all concerning client hacking.
For exploiting I think it's ok, but for using a hack? Hmmmm...

There would be a lot more "I saw this cool program, but when I installed it they banned me" posts if it was one strike and you're banned. There are hardly any of those, so it seems most who get banned realise they did wrong.

And you're thinking people actually read the EULA

 

[Bigmaec]

There would be a lot more "I saw this cool program, but when I installed it they banned me" posts if it was one strike and you're banned. There are hardly any of those, so it seems most who get banned realise they did wrong.

And you're thinking people actually read the EULA

Good.
I think people should know that they get banned if they cheat in an multiplayer online game. And no, I don't think about the children.

 

[Roybe]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/a-statement-on-cheating-in-elite-dangerous.513912/

 

[Ian Skippy]

Ummm. My exploration AspX has better shields than that.

Hell, my eagle has twice as much shield. No idea what the idea behind that python is, or why he expects to survive anything.

But sure, dude read something about cheating so every failure is now because of cheaters. Neat.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Three day bans to solo...
Shadow bans...

LMAO

It looks like (from extrapolating posts on the cheat forums: 1) 3 day shadowban, 2) 7 day shadowban, 3) permaban.

Could be wrong on that.

The first 2 are there to deter those who might be worried about getting permabanned. Permabans don't stop the hardcore cheaters anyway, the only good thing you can really say about them is they provide FD with extra income.

 

[Misty_Dark]

I will post my build as soon as I boot my game up, but for comparison, I was interdicted a week ago by a non-hacker using a Federal Corvette. He managed to kill me in the amount of time I would expect a player with a well engineered ship- I boosted twice and dropped a heat-sink before my shields were stripped, another boost later I was dead.

The interaction with the Mamba was different, I loaded into the instance and as soon as I had control of my ship from the load, I died. No boost, no turning, no "under attack" alert, no "shields disabled" alert, nothing, just the lights being cut and a message that I was killed by CMDR [insert name].

EDIT: Here is the link to my build. It says the rebuy is 4mil so maybe I got a component wrong but it should be about the same as what I use. https://s.orbis.zone/3fal

Summary of your python
Shields: 261MJ (435 vs Kinetic damage)
Hull: 468 (390 vs Kinetic damage)
Total Kinetic defence: 825


A gimballed large fragment canon has potential for 215 damage per second, you can fit 3 of those on a Mamba.
You can also add 2 small gimballed fragment canons, that has potential for 71 damage per second.

So without engineering, this Mamba can 215*3 + 71*2 = 787 damage in one "shot". This assumes that we land every pellet of the shot on target. So being up close and personal will yield max results.
Now, we can start adding engineering, lets pick double shoot, just as the name suggest, it will fire two shoots in one firing sequence, basically doubling the damage, so 787*2 = 1574 max potential damage. and then we can experimental effect oversized, that is another 3% more damage, upping the damage to 1621

We also do overcharged, with oversized, that gives us 70% + 3% damage, so 787 +60% + 3% => 1280 in damage.



So two simple builds with Fragment Canons, will overpower your defence in ONE GO, assuming the attacker is in close range and land most of the shoots on your ship.
Double shoot, ~50% of the pellets needs to hit your ship
Overcharged, ~65% of the pellets need to hit your ship



I have done exactly this against weak NPC ships, get really close, fire one volley of double shoot, and kaboom, NPC ship is dead by one push of the trigger. I used a Krait Mk 2. 3 Large and 2 medium fragment cannons, fixed. So even more damage.




So the two biggest issues I see with your build
1. 4C shield, getting a 4A would improve your shields without adding any more weight Gives a needed boost to the shields, cost is just 50% of your current insurance....
2. Hull, this is your biggest mistake, stock light weight hull is combat terms nothing more than "paper", adding some Military Grade Composites, will boost your hull. These are expensive... and for maximum defence against double shoot fragment builds, the super expensive reactive armour is the way to go.

But sadly, without ANY engineering, you are not going to survive long enough to escape from double shoot frag builds, the super expensive reactive armour with upgraded 4A shields,(1752 total kinetic defence) lets you survive the first "shot", but you will not be able to escape, as the second shoot most likely will kill you.... or you simply get rimmed to death...



I have lost quite a few multi purpose ships to pirates due to my own stupidity of not upgrading my hull, once my shields drops, I was usually dead in seconds by the NPC pirate... Now I add reactive armour with a 1D hull reinfoce ment engineered for thermal resistance for maximum defense.


I se that you have engieered your FSD, so you have access to engineering. And to stand a chance to survive these sort of encounters, you need to do have engineered ships...In regard to defence.

I focusing on maximum protection without breaking the bank, the goal is to surive long enough to be able to high wake
So Military Grade Composites, engineered for Heavy Duty G3, Deep Plating, 4A shield, with Reinforced with Hi-Cap, and lastly Shield booster, Heavy Duty G3 with Super Capacitors


Should bring your python to be
Shields: 562MJ (1026 vs Kinetic damage)
Hull: 1199 (1000 vs Kinetic damage)
Total Kinetic defence: 2026

That is more than 2 times better than what you currently have. But clearly not enough to actually survive this, but atleast you get to load into the instance before getting blown into pixels.
I do understand that unlocking engineers can be alot of work, and Selene Jean sure knows how to make us work for this. But the reality is, against these dedicated player killer builds, you have very limited options, so basically you have to choose Get tough or Get out (do not play in open)...

I am no fan of the current situation, and I predicted this exact scenario when engineering was introduced, great for PvE players, that like to tinker and it is more or less optional, but for PvP it would be become mandatory, and these sort of griefer builds do the engineering, and that gives them this huge advantage against PvE players who for various reasons are flying sub-optimal builds.



So, no, it was most likely no hacking involved in your deaths, just imbalanced ship builds, that favours players doing max engineering over those that don't in PvP scenarios.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Summary of your python
Shields: 261MJ (435 vs Kinetic damage)
Hull: 468 (390 vs Kinetic damage)
Total Kinetic defence: 825


A gimballed large fragment canon has potential for 215 damage per second, you can fit 3 of those on a Mamba.
You can also add 2 small gimballed fragment canons, that has potential for 71 damage per second.

So without engineering, this Mamba can 215*3 + 71*2 = 787 damage in one "shot". This assumes that we land every pellet of the shot on target. So being up close and personal will yield max results.
Now, we can start adding engineering, lets pick double shoot, just as the name suggest, it will fire two shoots in one firing sequence, basically doubling the damage, so 787*2 = 1574 max potential damage. and then we can experimental effect oversized, that is another 3% more damage, upping the damage to 1621

We also do overcharged, with oversized, that gives us 70% + 3% damage, so 787 +60% + 3% => 1280 in damage.



So two simple builds with Fragment Canons, will overpower your defence in ONE GO, assuming the attacker is in close range and land most of the shoots on your ship.
Double shoot, ~50% of the pellets needs to hit your ship
Overcharged, ~65% of the pellets need to hit your ship



I have done exactly this against weak NPC ships, get really close, fire one volley of double shoot, and kaboom, NPC ship is dead by one push of the trigger. I used a Krait Mk 2. 3 Large and 2 medium fragment cannons, fixed. So even more damage.




So the two biggest issues I see with your build
1. 4C shield, getting a 4A would improve your shields without adding any more weight Gives a needed boost to the shields, cost is just 50% of your current insurance....
2. Hull, this is your biggest mistake, stock light weight hull is combat terms nothing more than "paper", adding some Military Grade Composites, will boost your hull. These are expensive... and for maximum defence against double shoot fragment builds, the super expensive reactive armour is the way to go.

But sadly, without ANY engineering, you are not going to survive long enough to escape from double shoot frag builds, the super expensive reactive armour with upgraded 4A shields,(1752 total kinetic defence) lets you survive the first "shot", but you will not be able to escape, as the second shoot most likely will kill you.... or you simply get rimmed to death...



I have lost quite a few multi purpose ships to pirates due to my own stupidity of not upgrading my hull, once my shields drops, I was usually dead in seconds by the NPC pirate... Now I add reactive armour with a 1D hull reinfoce ment engineered for thermal resistance for maximum defense.


I se that you have engieered your FSD, so you have access to engineering. And to stand a chance to survive these sort of encounters, you need to do have engineered ships...In regard to defence.

I focusing on maximum protection without breaking the bank, the goal is to surive long enough to be able to high wake
So Military Grade Composites, engineered for Heavy Duty G3, Deep Plating, 4A shield, with Reinforced with Hi-Cap, and lastly Shield booster, Heavy Duty G3 with Super Capacitors


Should bring your python to be
Shields: 562MJ (1026 vs Kinetic damage)
Hull: 1199 (1000 vs Kinetic damage)
Total Kinetic defence: 2026

That is more than 2 times better than what you currently have. But clearly not enough to actually survive this, but atleast you get to load into the instance before getting blown into pixels.
I do understand that unlocking engineers can be alot of work, and Selene Jean sure knows how to make us work for this. But the reality is, against these dedicated player killer builds, you have very limited options, so basically you have to choose Get tough or Get out (do not play in open)...

I am no fan of the current situation, and I predicted this exact scenario when engineering was introduced, great for PvE players, that like to tinker and it is more or less optional, but for PvP it would be become mandatory, and these sort of griefer builds do the engineering, and that gives them this huge advantage against PvE players who for various reasons are flying sub-optimal builds.



So, no, it was most likely no hacking involved in your deaths, just imbalanced ship builds, that favours players doing max engineering over those that don't in PvP scenarios.

Good stuff! What I personally like is using relatively small bi-weaves for the recharge, guardian shield boosters for the raw mj and regular boosters for resistance. You can even use e-rated as the buff of the shield-only mj ain't that much. 2200-2700 effective shields, 200+ cargo. There is even some chaff left.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

 

[Delta895]

Alright so what I am gathering from the plethora of replies is that I am wrong and I just need a better build. While I agree that the ship is not outfitted to be the best, and most components come stock with the Python, the situation I encountered was different than what I've had before.

Nevertheless, I'll make a better trade build and take the advice of the people who suggested I block the perpetrator and such. In the future I'll post a clip or something to prove my point.

If there is anyone out there who would like to demonstrate a single shot kill on my Python with an engineered ship, I'd be happy to meet up in game and try it out, because with all the number citing I am still ambivalent.

I am new to the forums so if there is a direct message feature, shoot me one if you have a ship that could do a one shot kill and we can wing up to see

 

[Lestat]

Alright so what I am gathering from the plethora of replies is that I am wrong and I just need a better build. While I agree that the ship is not outfitted to be the best, and most components come stock with the Python, the situation I encountered was different than what I've had before.

Nevertheless, I'll make a better trade build and take the advice of the people who suggested I block the perpetrator and such. In the future I'll post a clip or something to prove my point.

If there is anyone out there who would like to demonstrate a single shot kill on my Python with an engineered ship, I'd be happy to meet up in game and try it out, because with all the number citing I am still ambivalent.

I am new to the forums so if there is a direct message feature, shoot me one if you have a ship that could do a one shot kill and we can wing up to see

The best idea is to ask what players how to change your build to make it better.

 

[Calvin Lynch]

Without far more specific information, nothing stands out as unusual, let alone as justification for the presumption of hacks here.



None of these are necessary nor would any of them be beneficial, even if they were workable, and most are not.

The game is already stacked heavily in favor of the defender and both murder and piracy are difficult to pull off against the experienced. On top of that, the tracking and pursuit mechanisms the game has are so easily foiled that anything dependent upon them is a non-starter. Wake scanners are borderline useless against opponents that suspect they'll be followed, while the odds of running down and make a kill on a non-novice CMDR who is trying to avoid being shot down is very low, even for vastly more experienced pilots.

There are fundamental aspects of game balance and network model that would need to be overhauled for the sort of gameplay you seem to be envisioning to be broadly practicable.



This is the fault of two parties....those making the assumptions and Frontier for not responding decisively enough to those cheats that actually exist.



There are phenomena that have nothing to do with cheating can cause an interdiction to succeed near instantly and fighting an interdiction by someone who is an expert at it can be very difficult.

Also, "fully armed and armored" doesn't say much, nor can we assume your AspX's velocity was enough to outpace even slower ships sufficiently to keep out of range. A fully armed and armored, but non-Engineered Asp X is barely faster than a well configured Anaconda or Corvette and would fold in a few shots to even long range weapons like rails and PAs. Much more detail is needed to make a convincing case for any sort of cheating.

Without far more specific information, nothing stands out as unusual, let alone as justification for the presumption of hacks here.



None of these are necessary nor would any of them be beneficial, even if they were workable, and most are not.

The game is already stacked heavily in favor of the defender and both murder and piracy are difficult to pull off against the experienced. On top of that, the tracking and pursuit mechanisms the game has are so easily foiled that anything dependent upon them is a non-starter. Wake scanners are borderline useless against opponents that suspect they'll be followed, while the odds of running down and make a kill on a non-novice CMDR who is trying to avoid being shot down is very low, even for vastly more experienced pilots.

There are fundamental aspects of game balance and network model that would need to be overhauled for the sort of gameplay you seem to be envisioning to be broadly practicable.



This is the fault of two parties....those making the assumptions and Frontier for not responding decisively enough to those cheats that actually exist.



There are phenomena that have nothing to do with cheating can cause an interdiction to succeed near instantly and fighting an interdiction by someone who is an expert at it can be very difficult.

Also, "fully armed and armored" doesn't say much, nor can we assume your AspX's velocity was enough to outpace even slower ships sufficiently to keep out of range. A fully armed and armored, but non-Engineered Asp X is barely faster than a well configured Anaconda or Corvette and would fold in a few shots to even long range weapons like rails and PAs. Much more detail is needed to make a convincing case for any sort of cheating.

Don't have to explain myself to you. Look at the protest video on youtube so you run out of excuses because people are actually cheating. The protest guy was banned from open play for showing how the cheats are done. All of your excuses are already covered pretty well on youtube.

 

[Ethaidan]

Alright so what I am gathering from the plethora of replies is that I am wrong and I just need a better build. While I agree that the ship is not outfitted to be the best, and most components come stock with the Python, the situation I encountered was different than what I've had before.

Nevertheless, I'll make a better trade build and take the advice of the people who suggested I block the perpetrator and such. In the future I'll post a clip or something to prove my point.

If there is anyone out there who would like to demonstrate a single shot kill on my Python with an engineered ship, I'd be happy to meet up in game and try it out, because with all the number citing I am still ambivalent.

I am new to the forums so if there is a direct message feature, shoot me one if you have a ship that could do a one shot kill and we can wing up to see

Having looked at your build, no hacking at all would be requires to destroy that Python with a single volley from an fully engineered Frag Mamba. As for the seemingly instant destruction, you can probably put that down to brief network instancing lag - cause your ship is, no offense, tissue-paper thin on defenses - but kudos for flying that coffin in open!

As for this being different from previous player interdiction experiences, sure that is not surprising - many Cmdrs kit themselves with a diversity of weapons, against which you may have lasted a little longer. A proper PvP seal-clubing insta-kill machine, however, will often be full of Frags - which will work great against certain ships, but fail against others.

But don't get drawn into the mindset of 'must be cheating', 'block everyone' - you might as well switch to solo. The simple hard truth is that the firepower and defensive gaps between unengineered A-rated ships and fully G5 engineered combat ships is freaking massive - and if you want to enjoy playing in open, you best embrace that truth, learn more (a lot more) about ship building, and find your way to survive... avoid engineering and stay on the fringes away from popular locales, stick to small fast ships and learn how to escape , start unlocking engineers and build yourself an invincible trade vessel... whatever suits you best.

I'd offer to demonstrate just how big that firepower gap is - I have more than one ship that could insta-gib your (less-than-A-rated) Python, but I'm still lost out in the Delta quadrant. And I play on PS4. But if you do start asking on the forums, there will be loads of Cmdrs who will offer advice for ship building.

Oh, and Google that guys 'trading in open' YouTube video. It's worth a watch.

 

[Ethaidan]

No, people are outright cheating, it's no contest. First of all they cheat bringing your ship down when you should get away. I've had this happen and I'm new to the game. Second, you should be able to easily outrun the bigger ships, the AI does it all the time, and magically the huge juggernauts can keep up with you if it's a human player. I own one of the bi 3 and know how slow they are. Someone called "The Kat" did the interdiction cheat on my fully armored and armed ASP Explorer then killed me with 2 shots, they had time to knock my shields down, use a couple hatch breaking limits, kept up with me while I was running in a much faster ship, and then destroyed it with one shot with full armor. There is a video of The Kat on youtube. If they cheat I'll put them out there and that player is a flat out cheater. I think frontier knows how the cheats are done and should simply fix it to where they cannot cheat! It's a shame to have people ruin a great game.

What a load of rubbish - although your claims do sound like someone new to the game.

You should easily be able to outrun the bigger ships? Your fully armed and armoured AspX?

Please do share your AspX build and we'll see if it could outrun my pirate Cutter.

 

[Misty_Dark]

No, people are outright cheating, it's no contest. First of all they cheat bringing your ship down when you should get away. I've had this happen and I'm new to the game. Second, you should be able to easily outrun the bigger ships, the AI does it all the time, and magically the huge juggernauts can keep up with you if it's a human player. I own one of the bi 3 and know how slow they are. Someone called "The Kat" did the interdiction cheat on my fully armored and armed ASP Explorer then killed me with 2 shots, they had time to knock my shields down, use a couple hatch breaking limits, kept up with me while I was running in a much faster ship, and then destroyed it with one shot with full armor. There is a video of The Kat on youtube. If they cheat I'll put them out there and that player is a flat out cheater. I think frontier knows how the cheats are done and should simply fix it to where they cannot cheat! It's a shame to have people ruin a great game.

So easy to throw out accusations without giving any substantial data to back it up. For example, fully armoured what exactly does this mean? was engineering involved? because if you where in a stock non engineered Asp Explorer, and the big ship was engineered, then the numbers says that most Engineered Anaconda, Corvette and Cutter will all overtake you...

Also what pip-settings did you use, as these affect top speed and acceleration...


So what was your build to begin with? At the moment, all we have to go on is what you believe happened, without any evidence to actually back up... Using phrases like "fully armoured" might be a totally different thing from what I would call fully armoured... and you have not mentioned if it was engineered or not... that as explained to OP, have a huge impact on outcome...