PvP The PvP Subforum's Purpose

[The Replicated Man]

Are you looking for good advice or not? From your focus and tone it seems like you need a bit of coddling. In my experience, players like you start out looking for "help" but then get side tracked about criticizing Pvpers for their tone and then act on the horrible advice of PvEers whos "nominal" FdL builds include such helpful items as docking computers, extra cargo capacity and planetary vehicle hangers. You need to decide what your priorities are: do you want help from experts, or a bubble wrapped ray of sunshine blown up your backside? If it's the latter you might as well just cut to the chase and apply to Mobius right now, because your never going to build a PvP ship and learn to fly it.

Out of Rep +3

 

[Prole 217]

This may be helpful information. If you post a provocative post, chances are it will provoke people to post, where they might not have if you didn't. For instance, if you whine about whining PvEers, some might take the opportunity to point out the irony.

Don't poke the carebear

Bears are dangerous. They are also very fast, thanfully people dont tast to good, at least thats what i guess since they dont eat too many of us smelly grease steaks. Of course when they do get mad look out. #OTP off topic post

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

PVErs in the PVP forum:

 

[Prole 217]

Pretty rich, you seem to be doing exactly what he described.
I think you need to calm down.
You would do well to listen to Jason and ignore the people crapping up these threads.

Interesting, he has yet to give any advice in this thread so what advice are you speaking of.
I have stated that I have asked in a different thread and have recived advice that I am following, this thread is not that thread.
I am capable of having opinions on things that differ from thread to thread, I treat each one as a different thing, which is why even though he has been extremely antagonistic in this thread it wont affect my taking advice from him in a different thread. Perhaps I just dont take things as personally as some do.
I am a hot head and I know it. I also accept people can run hot and cold and I listen to advice especially when I ask for it. The forums can be helpful and I try to separate personalities from the advice given, that has served me well in real life and so far in most games.

 

[Prole 217]

PVErs in the PVP forum:

from what i have seen so far that applies to both sides, pretty funny.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Interesting, he has yet to give any advice in this thread so what advice are you speaking of.
I have stated that I have asked in a different thread and have recived advice that I am following, this thread is not that thread.
I am capable of having opinions on things that differ from thread to thread, I treat each one as a different thing, which is why even though he has been extremely antagonistic in this thread it wont affect my taking advice from him in a different thread. Perhaps I just dont take things as personally as some do.
I am a hot head and I know it. I also accept people can run hot and cold and I listen to advice especially when I ask for it. The forums can be helpful and I try to separate personalities from the advice given, that has served me well in real life and so far in most games.

Again, read what he wrote, and try to understand where he's coming from, instead of being hot headed.
Your difficulties are why people like Jason, Replicant etc are speaking out.

The help he is dishing out, you seem to be equating to ego.
That's not substantiated, or very cool of you.

That exercise benefits you most of all.
Try to see that.

from what i have seen so far that applies to both sides, pretty funny.

No, because the PVPers have actual knowledge and experience to share, about PVP.
It's entirely different.

Is that really difficult to understand?

 

[Roybe]

I actually really like seeing so many people posting from the PvE side asking questions and contributing. I suspect that Replicant thinks so, too, but posted a bit in frustration and didn't nuance his point like I'm sure he would have upon reflection. I share his frustrations somewhat because this forum has been subjected to a pretty concentrated assault by a few people who's only interest in PvP has been to subvert threads whenever possible, and no help from the curators to keep it straight.

With that said, the best conversations on the entire forum are taking place here, and I think it's the most fun place to hang out, even if not terribly constructive at all times. With a little help from the mods, maybe it will become more constructive in the future.

Ok thats just pure heresy. I hope frontier gonna go CCP way and don`t surrender to carebears

If only there weren't such easy ways to interject PVE 'forum PVP' into these discussions! <snicker>

All kidding aside, I do hope you guys get the forum you want.

 

[Mohrgan]

PVErs in the PVP forum:

I am a combat focused PvE player. I readily admit I can learn stuffs from the PvP Meta, and the discussions surrounding it. Along with that, I can also be interested in the suggestions made by PvPers concerning combat, and other issues that cross over into general concerns. No one aspect of the game resides in a bubble, so no discussion, or topic, should expect to be afforded a bubble.

The intention of this Sub-Forum is to discuss issues relating to PvP. It shouldn't be viewed as a portion of the forums that can be dominated, or controlled by 'Certified PvP Guys'. If people want guides and such, create them. If people want to discuss tactics, and/or builds create threads to do so. If you ask an open question, "What is the PvP Forum for?", you have to expect to read a variety of views.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I am a combat focused PvE player. I readily admit I can learn stuffs from the PvP Meta, and the discussions surrounding it. Along with that, I can also be interested in the suggestions made by PvPers concerning combat, and other issues that cross over into general concerns. No one aspect of the game resides in a bubble, so no discussion, or topic, should expect to be afforded a bubble.

The intention of this Sub-Forum is to discuss issues relating to PvP. It shouldn't be viewed as a portion of the forums that can be dominated, or controlled by 'Certified PvP Guys'. If people want guides and such, create them. If people want to discuss tactics, and/or builds create threads to do so. If you ask an open question, "What is the PvP Forum for?", you have to expect to read a variety of views.

The are two problems:
1. People often think their "opinions and beliefs" are on equal footing with the "understanding" actual PVPers bring.
2. In trying to "prove" #1, those PVErs often derail threads and effectively bury the valid information.

 

[Prole 217]

Again, read what he wrote, and try to understand where he's coming from, instead of being hot headed.
Your difficulties are why people like Jason, Replicant etc are speaking out.

The help he is dishing out, you seem to be equating to ego.
That's not substantiated, or very cool of you.

That exercise benefits you most of all.
Try to see that.



No, because the PVPers have actual knowledge and experience to share, about PVP.
It's entirely different.

Is that really difficult to understand?

Again what advice has been given? In this thread that isn't about advise?
What actual help has been dished out?
What exercise are you speaking of?
I am trying to see something here.
My take on this particular thread is that some of the posters feel that nobody but pvp players should post in this sub forum.
My statement is that its a public forum and anybody has the right to post here.
I also stated it would be nice to have a forum that was for mentors where a lot of this stuff could simply be moderated out, but who are you going to get to mod that forum, its certainly not a job, even if I was qualified, would want.
Teaching/mentoring is a difficult job and not everyone can do it just as not everyone can learn from every mentor/teacher, whether its based on personalities or language/social/age etc reasons. Rather than puff up and demand nobody listen to anyone but you, in the general sense, it would be wise to send the supplicant on to someone who might be able to help them, unless you really dont care about teaching.
I seriously dont have an issue with taking advice even if its given somewhat like a left handed compliment, we each take something from every interaction, why not try to make it as beneficial as possible for all parties involved?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The intention of this Sub-Forum is to discuss issues relating to PvP. It shouldn't be viewed as a portion of the forums that can be dominated, or controlled by 'Certified PvP Guys'.

True, but I for one am willing to facilitate them and observe the proceedings from the peanut gallery if that is the general consensus. If these fellers wish to create an echo chamber where they can nudge each other uncontested and go: "These PvEers eh? Am I right?", let them have it.

So far Rep has been the only one who was brave enough to actually address what he perceived were PvEers, and he engaged in a direct conversation. And I appreciate that. I wish more people would do so, so I know where I stand. So far, all I have reading is about a loosely defined persistent PvE group who are ruining it for everyone. And I am left wondering, am I considered part of that group? I don't complain about PvP, don't venture into advice threads, but if I'm picking up the hints, I am part of the problem.

Also I have read more PvP advice today than I have in my entire time here, because I wanted to see if they are really prone to disruptive behaviour. These guys have a point, when PvP advice is solicited, it makes sense to have experienced PvP guys handing out advice. So I never visited these threads. Having read them, I don't share the opinion that people who come here looking for advice drown in disruptive PvE posts. People who come here looking for advice will get it because there are many passionate PvPers who like to discuss and share PvP wisdom. I don't see the doom and gloom of PvEers barging in. When asked for specific examples, this thread was mentioned. But this thread is more a general discussion than a subject which you need expert PvP knowledge to participate.

Bottomline for me is, I don't think this section is a dumping ground or a cesspool where mods dump threads to be forgotten. I have read a lot of valuable information today which would have helped me greatly had I been a beginning PvPer. Only threads which stay away from the technical side of PvP will attract non-PvPers.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Again what advice has been given? In this thread that isn't about advise?

I said understand where he is coming from, not look for his advice.
You just wrote it's not an advice thread, so stop expecting any.

What actual help has been dished out?
What exercise are you speaking of?

He gave you good information.
How you choose to use it is up to you.
This whole thread is an exercise.

I am trying to see something here.
My take on this particular thread is that some of the posters feel that nobody but pvp players should post in this sub forum.

Nobody but PVPers should offer advice would be more accurate.
If everyone else would "Not clutter up threads with nonsense" that would be also desirable.

My statement is that its a public forum and anybody has the right to post here.
I also stated it would be nice to have a forum that was for mentors where a lot of this stuff could simply be moderated out, but who are you going to get to mod that forum, its certainly not a job, even if I was qualified, would want.
Teaching/mentoring is a difficult job and not everyone can do it just as not everyone can learn from every mentor/teacher, whether its based on personalities or language/social/age etc reasons. Rather than puff up and demand nobody listen to anyone but you, in the general sense, it would be wise to send the supplicant on to someone who might be able to help them, unless you really dont care about teaching.
I seriously dont have an issue with taking advice even if its given somewhat like a left handed compliment, we each take something from every interaction, why not try to make it as beneficial as possible for all parties involved?

But you said it yourself, this isn't an advice thread, so maybe don't object to the arguments taking place that have your best interests in mind...

If you want advice, start another thread.
Don't expect it in this one.

 

[Mohrgan]

The are two problems:
1. People often think their "opinions and beliefs" are on equal footing with the "understanding" actual PVPers bring.
2. In trying to "prove" #1, those PVErs often derail threads and effectively bury the valid information.

You are guilty of #1 right in this very post. All of this stuffs is opinion. This is just common stuffs with open forums. That's how discussions and advice works. You go out for help, you get a variety of opinions, and you set about seeing what works and what doesn't. That is the benefit of understanding. How would one go about becoming certified to offer advice?

You can't possibly believe that no PvPer has attempted to derail threads. You can't possibly believe only threads with a PvP topic get buried or derailed. It's up to the reader to sift out the good from the bad advice.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

You are guilty of #1 right in this very post. All of this stuffs is opinion. This is just common stuffs with open forums. That's how discussions and advice works. You go out for help, you get a variety of opinions, and you set about seeing what works and what doesn't. That is the benefit of understanding. How would one go about becoming certified to offer advice?

That's not true.
It's not opinion, and that simply belies a misunderstanding on your part.
There is objective reality and understanding, which is entirely different than belief or opinion.

This article applies well here:
https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

The problem with “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.

If “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion” just means no-one has the right to stop people thinking and saying whatever they want, then the statement is true, but fairly trivial. No one can stop you saying that vaccines cause autism, no matter how many times that claim has been disproven.

But if ‘entitled to an opinion’ means ‘entitled to have your views treated as serious candidates for the truth’ then it’s pretty clearly false. And this too is a distinction that tends to get blurred.

As for getting certified?
LOL, well some people are automatically disqualified and self identify as such, so let's just see if we can start there?

You can't possibly believe that no PvPer has attempted to derail threads. You can't possibly believe only threads with a PvP topic get buried or derailed. It's up to the reader to sift out the good from the bad advice.

I'm not interested in delving into fallacy land...
Whataboutism, tu quoque etc...

 

[Mohrgan]

That's not true.
It's not opinion, and that simply belies a misunderstanding on your part.
There is objective reality and understanding, which is entirely different than belief or opinion.

This article applies well here:
https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978







As for getting certified?
LOL, well some people are automatically disqualified and self identify as such, so let's just see if we can start there?








I'm not interested in delving into fallacy land...
Whataboutism, tu quoque etc...

Deflection. Enjoy the Forum.

Fly safe Commander. o7

 

[Roybe]

That's not true.
It's not opinion, and that simply belies a misunderstanding on your part.

Depends on where the conversations go. Into 'mode exclusivity', 'salt collection', 'name calling', etc. the conversation will automatically devolve into many other people voicing their opinion.

Obviously, these conversations should be immediately reported for their content and locked or moved by the admins.

The frequent use of the report button is recommended to clean up these situations.

It's the PVP subforum, as such, it will be a reflection of what the PVP community refuses to accept as 'proper'.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Deflection. Enjoy the Forum.

Fly safe Commander. o7

Definition, not deflection.
Using the whataboutism/tu quoque is the deflection.

Cheers!

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Depends on where the conversations go. Into 'mode exclusivity', 'salt collection', 'name calling', etc. the conversation will automatically devolve into many other people voicing their opinion.

Obviously, these conversations should be immediately reported for their content and locked or moved by the admins.

The frequent use of the report button is recommended to clean up these situations.

It's the PVP subforum, as such, it will be a reflection of what the PVP community refuses to accept as 'proper'.

I was responding to this:

You are guilty of #1 right in this very post. All of this stuffs is opinion. This is just common stuffs with open forums. That's how discussions and advice works. You go out for help, you get a variety of opinions, and you set about seeing what works and what doesn't. That is the benefit of understanding. How would one go about becoming certified to offer advice?

But I agree that a peer review of sorts is best.

 

[withnail]

I'm not quite sure how to answer. But here goes. How I play my game is actually none of your business. That you for some reason think that I have to live up to some kind of standard set by you is disturbing, and suggests issues I can't get into as this is a game forum.

You are now in "the PvP subforum's Purpose" thread, where those who care to (and that means ANYONE who cares to) can comment on what they consider the purpose of the PvP subforum to be.

Why not create your own thread called "I accuse" where you can call out anyone who you don't believe plays PvP in a manour satisfactory to you? Doesn't this sound like a good idea?

I will not comment on this matter further, but will stick to the topic of the purpose of the PvP subforum.

I think it is clear that you don't do PvP.

 

[Dietger]

Experience unpredictable encounters with players from around the world in Elite Dangerous' vast massively multiplayer space.
Fly alone or with friends in a connected galaxy where every pilot you face could become a trusted ally or your deadliest enemy.
​

So that's where we all started.

Except solo players and players not willing to "Experience unpredictable encounters". Private group players or Soloists. No, for everyone playing along or against any other player, I guess the PvP sub is a good place to show up and discuss matters.

If it so happens, you and your trusted friends aren't happy, with what Frontier came up with in Open, which is, we are reminded: "Experience unpredictable encounters" try Modes sub. Where we happily discuss, whether or not, your in the right place.

Try Modes, try Solo, you'll in good company!

Cheers