PvP The PvP Subforum's Purpose

[Mohrgan]

As a member of the DWE & successful completionist of a round trip to Beagle Point and back in Mobius/Fleetcomm, my PvE creds and membership to Clan Carebear are as good as they come, and even I've noticed how so many dedicated PvErs and group/solo only posters come here with the express purpose of derailing threads. Brett even noticed it. What I don't notice is much of an effort to do anything about it, though. I work tirelessly to convince my PvE brothers and sisters to calm down and look at the bigger picture, but alas I am only one voice.

And you do entertain.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

As a member of the DWE & successful completionist of a round trip to Beagle Point and back in Mobius/Fleetcomm, my PvE creds and membership to Clan Carebear are as good as they come, and even I've noticed how so many dedicated PvErs and group/solo only posters come here with the express purpose of derailing threads. Brett even noticed it. What I don't notice is much of an effort to do anything about it

No one claims there are no PvEers who are being naughty on the forums. The claim is both sides are naughty on occasion. The implication this is a problem which occurs in either side more often is foolish.

For instance, you're not working tirelessly to convince your PvP brethren to calm down. When they openly admit to engaging in trolling behaviour and provoking other posters. This is called salt mining. You may have heard about it

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

See what I mean, People dont know the difference between PVP and Griefing. And will admittedly use the lesser risk for the same reward.

Edit: we're talking about player faction vs player faction in this case.

 

[jasonbarron]

No one claims there are no PvEers who are being naughty on the forums. The claim is both sides are naughty on occasion. The implication this is a problem which occurs in either side more often is foolish.

For instance, you're not working tirelessly to convince your PvP brethren to calm down. When they openly admit to engaging in trolling behaviour and provoking other posters. This is called salt mining. You may have heard about it

That's not true, Ziggy. I'm constantly trying to bring forth reasonable alternatives to rowdyness with my brothers and sisters on the other side.

 

[ethelred]

So we have a derailment in progress in the trading in Open thread - that also needs to be pinned (possibly with a NSFW tag because of swears - which is another topic I could go on about but won't).

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-in-Open-(or-just-surviving-in-general)/page2

I've (i hope) respectfully submitted that the last couple of comments (since Ziggy's tbh) are derailing - hopefully a mod can move or remove them. I've not reported using the tool as it seems a bit heavy handed for just going OT but if that's how we need to roll, then that's how I will roll. Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

To give credit where it is due, in three years of playing exclusively PvP [subject to engineering], and three years of posting exclusively about PvP [subject to engineering], including not just about game mechanics but also my merciless Powerplay slaughter of those pledged to non-Federal Powers, and including both before and after two years ago when I left my player group [Adle's Armada] to become Independent, I have had yet to encounter the slightest difficulty with Frontier Forum moderation of any kind.

True 'Goody2Rails' Silver
Federal Vigilante Executioner [& Teacher's Pet]

Yeah, It's probably an unfair assessment.

 

[Brett C]

So we have a derailment in progress in the trading in Open thread - that also needs to be pinned (possibly with a NSFW tag because of swears - which is another topic I could go on about but won't).

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-in-Open-(or-just-surviving-in-general)/page2

I've (i hope) respectfully submitted that the last couple of comments (since Ziggy's tbh) are derailing - hopefully a mod can move or remove them. I've not reported using the tool as it seems a bit heavy handed for just going OT but if that's how we need to roll, then that's how I will roll. Thoughts?

Thread won't be stuck. We don't stick videos with swearing contained within, it does not reflect well to this community.

 

[Arguendo]

Heres a Lovely image folks, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/419011878463733760/429181940336427019/final.png (this is being used as an example feel free to remove it. You should look at it though).

That right there is irony on atleast two levels. I love it! Thanks man!!

 

[ethelred]

If it was bleeped?

How much editing are we talking about?

 

[Brett C]

If it was bleeped?

How much editing are we talking about?

Removal or changing of the swearing words to non-swearing words used for starters.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thread won't be stuck. We don't stick videos with swearing contained within, it does not reflect well to this community.

What about the off-topic stuff? Thread could serve as help to open traders, but when it's hijacked it will become one of those threads.

 

[True Phoenix]

Maybe those who enjoy the open mode could attach a link to the Tradering git gud guide video into their signatures, spread the word that it ain't that deadly and there are ways to escape. I still think ship type and set up are important too. Just a thought....

 

[ethelred]

I’d need an adversary but i’m willing to fly a succession of mixed build ships into a station if a PvP ship tries to kill me.

If I can figure out OBS I can even record it, but i’m no Rinzler (great editing & extras in that video i’m Sure you agree)

If anyone is free daytimes UTC+1 Wednesday/Thursday it could work (as I will indeed pretend to be working from home)

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

No one claims there are no PvEers who are being naughty on the forums. The claim is both sides are naughty on occasion. The implication this is a problem which occurs in either side more often is foolish.

For instance, you're not working tirelessly to convince your PvP brethren to calm down. When they openly admit to engaging in trolling behaviour and provoking other posters. This is called salt mining. You may have heard about it

And also a strawman, as I suppose you are clever enough to consider.
It's not the frequency, but the level and context of the "perceived" offenses.

"Salt mining" is still playing the game as intended, by the devs' own description.

Creating dissertations on the supposed IRL aberrant and psychotic behavior of people playing the game as intended, and being given forum space to do so?
That's not even in the same league.

In fact, acting like people shooting you for no reason whatsoever is somehow "wrong" is nothing short of a lie.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And also a strawman, as I suppose you are clever enough to consider.
It's not the frequency, but the level and context of the "perceived" offenses.

"Salt mining" is still playing the game as intended, by the devs' own description.

Creating dissertations on the supposed IRL aberrant and psychotic behavior of people playing the game as intended, and being given forum space to do so?
That's not even in the same league.

In fact, acting like people shooting you for no reason whatsoever is somehow "wrong" is nothing short of a lie.

I was talking about salt mining on the forum dear. "Provoking other posters". I didn't act as if shooting for no reason is somehow wrong.

And still it wouldn't be a strawman if I had. Because I am not discrediting another argument.

 

[The Replicated Man]

Thread won't be stuck. We don't stick videos with swearing contained within, it does not reflect well to this community.

Oh wow

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I was talking about salt mining on the forum dear. "Provoking other posters". I didn't act as if shooting for no reason is somehow wrong.

And still it wouldn't be a strawman if I had. Because I am not discrediting another argument.

You wrote:
"The implication this is a problem which occurs in either side more often is foolish."


You are reframing the argument into one of ubiquity, not one of severity.
Salt mining isn't even relevant in the first place.
That is a strawman.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You wrote:
"The implication this is a problem which occurs in either side more often is foolish."

You are reframing the argument into one of ubiquity, not one of severity.
Salt mining isn't even relevant in the first place.
That is a strawman.

No it's not, because people have claimed or implied it occurs more on one side than the other. People on both sides have implied this. May not be your take, but others have. I disagree. Just disagree. Without addressing it.

I am not reframing the argument, at least not intentionally. Intent is also a part of strawmanning.

Salt mining on the forum is relevant, because it's forum behaviour I was talking about. Since I know what the subject of my post was, I think I'll let myself be the arbiter on whether that's relevant.

edit: but I enjoy the irony of you jumping on me with accusations of trying to muddy the conversation and uttering lies. Neither was my intent. Which you could have found out, had you just asked, instead of assuming I am resorting to debate tactics and lying.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

No it's not, because people have claimed or implied it occurs more on one side than the other. People on both sides have implied this. May not be your take, but others have. I disagree. Just disagree. Without addressing it.

I am not reframing the argument, at least not intentionally. Intent is also a part of strawmanning.

Salt mining on the forum is relevant, because it's forum behaviour I was talking about. Since I know what the subject of my post was, I think I'll let myself be the arbiter on whether that's relevant.

Insofar as you can jump into *any* conversation and say all sorts of things out of context, you are correct.
It doesn't foster any sort of rational communication that said.
The context of this ongoing conversation has not been about ubiquity and that has been reiterated on more than one occasion.
If you choose to take on that on your own, then it has nothing to do with the thread or conversation at large.


This thread in particular is about PVE whining in the PVP forum.
What does general salt mining or ubiquity have to do with that?
You can certainly claim and believe it is relevant, even if it is not so.

It's whataboutism at best.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Actually, I stand by my strawman assertion, since it was YOU that brought up ubiquity in this thread to begin with, LOL...

If I look at the first page, the majority of threads are indeed about relevant PvP topics.

The trouble is, the other kind of thread may be occurring less often but gets way more traction because there are opposing sides and controversy which attracts all the lowlifes.

- Ziggy lowlife Stardust.