PvP The PvP Subforum's Purpose

[Ziggy Stardust]

Actually, I stand by my strawman assertion, since it was YOU that brought up ubiquity in this thread to begin with, LOL...

I was reacting to for instance Post #4

I think a lot of complaining-about-ganking threads are started in dangerous discussions (where they belong to imho) and are then quickly pushed to PvP by mods for whatever reason.

The point which you quoted simply was: there's lots of quality PvP threads in this section, it's just that the controversial ones get more traction. Which is why it may seem that lots of anti-ganking threads get transferred here.

Nowhere am I addressing PvP forum behaviour vs PvE forum behaviour. I mean, that was what we were just talking about right? I'm asking you since you seem to be in charge about what I am discussing and whether it's relevant

As a wise man once said: LOL

edit: post #8, #14, #15, #18 also talked about this.

You stand by your accusations and generally unpleasant demeanor. I'll stop feeding it, since it's quite off topic

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I was reacting to for instance Post #4


The point which you quoted simply was: there's lots of quality PvP threads in this section, it's just that the controversial ones get more traction. Which is why it may seem that lots of anti-ganking threads get transferred here.

Nowhere am I addressing PvP forum behaviour vs PvE forum behaviour. I mean, that was what we were just talking about right? I'm asking you since you seem to be in charge about what I am discussing and whether it's relevant

As a wise man once said: LOL

edit: post #8, #14, #15, #18 also talked about this.

You stand by your accusations and generally unpleasant demeanor. I'll stop feeding it, since it's quite off topic

I'm not in charge, I can just follow syllogisms.
Syllogistic reasoning is not really open for subjective interpretation.

I was referring to your "someone" from earlier and it was in fact, you yourself who brought it up in the first place.
It's all basic fallacies of diversion.
Whether you are doing them intentionally I have no idea.

Fact remains:
How often people salt mine has no relevance to this thread in particular, or to the larger picture of PVE players filling PVP threads with their scatological ramblings.

Above and beyond that, the elephant in the room is the tacit acceptance by forum mods, vis a vis abhorrent personal attacks on PVP players, by PVE players.
Trying to hand wave that with the topic of general salt mining is nothing short of fallacious.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Removal or changing of the swearing words to non-swearing words used for starters.

This comes to mind:
[video=youtube_share;WmRTUNh1vPo]https://youtu.be/WmRTUNh1vPo[/video]

 

[withnail]

A lot of PvP players won't even bother posting here because they can't be bothered to deal with the griefing accusations.

Forum threads get discussed on discord channels a fair bit, mostly it comprises eye rolling and frustration at uneducated opinions.

 

[Prole 217]

A lot of PvP players won't even bother posting here because they can't be bothered to deal with the griefing accusations.

Forum threads get discussed on discord channels a fair bit, mostly it comprises eye rolling and frustration at uneducated opinions.

So why is there not more education going on? I guess there is some but it can be hard to ferret out of all the childish insults and posturing.

I want to get good at pvp, even asked in another thread for guidance, this thread seems to be all about controlling who can and who cant post, or what can or cant be posted. Is that even possible in an Internet forum?

 

[Darty]

So let's correct this assumption here regarding "If X User Upsets a PVE Player". If you convey your post in a manner that attacks (be it trolling, harassment, flaming, etc) the person and not the argument, your posted content WILL be moderated - regardless if you PVP or PVE or both.

Granted, we've seen some folks pop into the PVP forum just to poke and prod at PVP discussions in an attempt to hijack them or hijack it fully resulting in it being closed, so we'll be dealing with that soon.

Are you certain that the mods don't let their biases determine what is and isn't harassment/flaming? I'm not just talking pvp vs pve, but in general it seems that what posters with certain viewpoints can get away with (broad sweeping accusations that anyone with an opposing opinion should just stop playing the game, is mentally ill, or is childish/entitled) is not the same as what other posters can get away with.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

This turned out as expected.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Maybe those who enjoy the open mode could attach a link to the Tradering git gud guide video into their signatures, spread the word that it ain't that deadly and there are ways to escape. I still think ship type and set up are important too. Just a thought....

Done!

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

So why is there not more education going on? I guess there is some but it can be hard to ferret out of all the childish insults and posturing.

I want to get good at pvp, even asked in another thread for guidance, this thread seems to be all about controlling who can and who cant post, or what can or cant be posted. Is that even possible in an Internet forum?

Were you unhappy with the help you received?

 

[Chongo]

1) Leaning to be better combat pilots especially in regards to combat vs. other Commanders.
2) Discussing tactics.
3) Discussing builds.
4) Offering advice and mentoring to anyone that wants it - especially rookies.

Anyone who is used to competitive pvp knows that when they offer advice here they'll be met with a swell of misinformation. This forum model has no means of filtering subject matter expertise. Many give up. Every guy with a new python can get on here and excitedly give advice on his experiences, and you have no idea how to differentiate because there's no tangible measure other than forum rankings, which mean absolutely nothing in combat wherewithal. I was about to say it's not that complicated, but it is quite so - huh - influx of ignorance + excitement added to... ha... don't want to put the equation together. It's dead on arrival on these forums. It's entirely structure.

This forum structure is so inefficient, with so much labor required to discern accuracy, that it almost seems a manner of gameplay.

They should just randomize answers to a high grade USS equivalent and you can click refresh on your browser.

 

[Riverside]

Anyone who is used to competitive pvp knows that when they offer advice here they'll be met with a swell of misinformation. This forum model has no means of filtering subject matter expertise. Many give up. Every guy with a new python can get on here and excitedly give advice on his experiences, and you have no idea how to differentiate because there's no tangible measure other than forum rankings, which mean absolutely nothing in combat wherewithal. I was about to say it's not that complicated, but it is quite so - huh - influx of ignorance + excitement added to... ha... don't want to put the equation together. It's dead on arrival on these forums. It's entirely structure.

This forum structure is so inefficient, with so much labor required to discern accuracy, that it almost seems a manner of gameplay.

They should just randomize answers to a high grade USS equivalent and you can click refresh on your browser.

So these few posters qualified to give advice, how many are there? Is there a list?

You can't name & shame but you can name & praise.

 

[Prole 217]

Were you unhappy with the help you received?

Another thread I asked in has been helpful although its a pretty big task to "dig in" but I will get there.
Or are you referring to the childish insults and posturing that is evident in this particular thread, since I haven't been able to discern any real advice in this one.
Like I stated in the post you quoted this thread seems to be about who can and who cant post.

The background noise is a big issue for someone trying to learn but it seems neither side in this kerfuffel can put the egos aside to accomplish much of anything. It is a good thing that not all threads are this bad although a lot of them are.

Neither side is really listening to the other and each is to blame.

 

[Chongo]

So these few posters qualified to give advice, how many are there? Is there a list?

You can't name & shame but you can name & praise.

Read again, if you care to. It was written with a bit of bitterness but if you break it down I'd be surprised if you can't see the sense in it.

It's entirely forum structure. There is no legitimacy outside of taking the time to meet someone in game and fly. The rest is noise: hope for an accurate response on the most recent page. How many are you personally willing to accommodate? And for how long?

This conversational model is wildly antiquated.

 

[Riverside]

This conversational model is wildly antiquated.

It's a forum, they are much of a muchness. Frankly I miss Usenet. How does one find out who to fly with? How is one able to trust that random is worthy enough? Who decides who is worthy to give good advice? Where is the sticky that contains this advice on how to get advice?

Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

[Frenotx]

Anyone who is used to competitive pvp knows that when they offer advice here they'll be met with a swell of misinformation. This forum model has no means of filtering subject matter expertise. Many give up. Every guy with a new python can get on here and excitedly give advice on his experiences, and you have no idea how to differentiate because there's no tangible measure other than forum rankings, which mean absolutely nothing in combat wherewithal. I was about to say it's not that complicated, but it is quite so - huh - influx of ignorance + excitement added to... ha... don't want to put the equation together. It's dead on arrival on these forums. It's entirely structure.

This forum structure is so inefficient, with so much labor required to discern accuracy, that it almost seems a manner of gameplay.

They should just randomize answers to a high grade USS equivalent and you can click refresh on your browser.

Learning who to trust and how to fact check information on the forum is more skill-based than half the mechanics in the game. X3

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Another thread I asked in has been helpful although its a pretty big task to "dig in" but I will get there.
Or are you referring to the childish insults and posturing that is evident in this particular thread, since I haven't been able to discern any real advice in this one.
Like I stated in the post you quoted this thread seems to be about who can and who cant post.

The background noise is a big issue for someone trying to learn but it seems neither side in this kerfuffel can put the egos aside to accomplish much of anything. It is a good thing that not all threads are this bad although a lot of them are.

Neither side is really listening to the other and each is to blame.

I don't think what you've written is an entirely accurate representation of things.

The difficulty you're experiencing in finding advice, is exactly the reason for the discussion of who ought to post, or not.
Objective experience is a valid concern.
That part has nothing to do with ego.

That said, there is some strange ego thing going on, when people who don't even do an activity feel the need to blather on and on in multiple threads about said topic.
That is a problem worth addressing and fixing imo.

It's not an even blame issue.
People with no experience should "defer" to those with experience.
The experienced folks have no obligation to hear out the people who have never done the activity.
If anything they are obligated to shout them down.

The same horse-pucky exists in the real world.
https://www.nature.com/news/take-the-time-and-effort-to-correct-misinformation-1.21106

I say it's the mods jobs to ban these folks:
"Oh hey, I never did any of this stuff but I'm going to clutter up every thread on the topic with my ramblings!"

lol

 

[Riverside]

It is clear that the definition of what constitutes 'PvP' differs depending on who is being asked. To some degree this down to skill and experience, mostly it seems connected to approach - Exclusive (only the true PvPer should post) vs Inclusive (anyone can post, and stand or fall by their words).

An inclusive forum sub-section would allow questions to be asked (and answered) but responses could be from anyone - this is the current situation.

An exclusive forum sub-section would be by invite only, read only. But making this section exclusive would mean new players wouldn't be able to ask for advice, although potentially they could read tutorials etc written by the exclusive members. Permission to post would be granted only to the exclusive few. Advice requested in DD could be replied to by those exclusive members of the PvP sub-section, perhaps they could be flagged as such so that others can easily identify their posts, as with the moderator & frontier employee 'flairs', but in a different colour.


I would prefer this section to remain open to all, but would happily accept it being turned into an exclusive club with it's own volunteer moderator (who only moderated the exclusive sub-section). If someone took issue with a proposal mooted in this read-only but visible section, they would need to start a parallel thread in another section. Those exclusive members would naturally be perfectly entitled to join the parallel debate, but their own thread in the exclusive sub-section would remain unsullied.

Could be worth a try.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Can anyone give me a couple of examples of advice threads that were cluttered by non-PvP plebs posting?

 

[withnail]

So why is there not more education going on? I guess there is some but it can be hard to ferret out of all the childish insults and posturing.

I want to get good at pvp, even asked in another thread for guidance, this thread seems to be all about controlling who can and who cant post, or what can or cant be posted. Is that even possible in an Internet forum?

You will find the best advice on PvP discords.

Most PvP'ers are actually ok and would be happy to provide advice.

First thing to do is to engineer your ship and practice with fixed weapons.

Can anyone give me a couple of examples of advice threads that were cluttered by non-PvP plebs posting?

This one for a start. That's pretty ironic really.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...This one for a start. That's pretty ironic really.

This isn't an advice thread. It's a purpose thread.