The Quest To Find Raxxla

[Allen Stroud]

Brenquith was a Frontier Gazetteer character. His exploits were highlighted and expanded with more detail added in the guide material.

Later, I produced a variety of spoof Astrogator Tours adverts for Lave Radio.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Just so you all are aware, the supposed spat between Braben and Ian Bell was manufactured entirely by Ian Bell to help cast doubt on the original Raxxla plot from Holdstock to instill doubt in the playerbase. There was no summons between Braben and Bell and pretty sure this was intentional. All claims were made by Bell himself and the summons was always plaintext not a PDF of the summons. I used wording from Bell's claims to try to find the actual since it would have been a matter of public record. The actual legal battle was between Braben and GameTek. Here's the actual court summons:

 

[simulacrae]

Brenquith was a Frontier Gazetteer character. His exploits were highlighted and expanded with more detail added in the guide material.

Later, I produced a variety of spoof Astrogator Tours adverts for Lave Radio.

Ahh nice! Will have to check those out

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

System:	Ackwada
Distance to Sol:	78.90 ly
Distance to Arrival:	9 ls
Situated:	Orbital
Body:	Ackwada

Group:	Beacon
Beacon Type:	Tourist Beacon
Tourist Spot:	0216

---

The official discovery of this system and its habitable planet is nowadays accredited to Augustus Brenquith, although the Rockforth Corporation claim the land deeds and development rights to the system. Thirty nine years after the Corporation declared the system its own; an ancient message capsule (a common way for sending messages at the time) was recovered from outside the orbit of Jupiter in the Sol system.

The discovery aroused considerable interest amongst archeologists on Earth at the time while the capsule was in transit to the New Delhi University there was heated debate as to whether the artefact should be opened or not. When the capsule was studied, the seal was seen to be broken, so the matter was resolved. Inside the capsule was a message crystal with the log of the second five years of Augustus Brenquith's solitary search for new worlds, his 'glittering legacy', included in the list of planetary systems that he had stumbled upon was that of Ackwada.

 

[Allen Stroud]

Just so you all are aware, the supposed spat between Braben and Ian Bell was manufactured entirely by Ian Bell to help cast doubt on the original Raxxla plot from Holdstock to instill doubt in the playerbase. There was no summons between Braben and Bell and pretty sure this was intentional. All claims were made by Bell himself and the summons was always plaintext not a PDF of the summons. I used wording from Bell's claims to try to find the actual since it would have been a matter of public record. The actual legal battle was between Braben and GameTek. Here's the actual court summons:

The issues were nothing to do with Raxxla or Robert Holdstock.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Glittering seems to have appeared

The issues were nothing to do with Raxxla or Robert Holdstock.

Okay, so bad lead or a misinterpretation. Got it. I do find it curious though using the text Ian Bell had posted to his site and the Google Groups, I cannot find any public record of the summons between Braben and Bell. I could find court records for GameTek vs Braben. You, though, certainly should be knowledgeable on that and I accept it. I just find it weird Bell never actually produced something that had like a court logo and could be conclusively linked to a public record of any sort. For sake of argument the case details are on Ian Bell's site at Elite Home Page - Archive but even the public statement supposedly ending the legal strife cannot be retrieved as a matter of public record. Now, I get this happened in 1995 and the Internet was a baby then but surely there would have been gaming press about the whole thing. The "public statement" text is referenced on Bell's site as is the text of the libel fight (on another site but again text only manually written) and Google Groups .

 

[Rochester]

Not all court cases are made public, especially if there is an out of court settlement. Data can be requested to be retained / omitted. Plus the internet is not the repository of all knowledge, especially not in 1995, but this issue is well documented, it’s nothing to do with a fictional entity, that was solely Holdstocks IP, Bell and Braben had no involvement in its development, it was never in any game until 2014 and ED. This is grasping at wet straws and muddying already murky water.

 

[Allen Stroud]

Not a lot of point in going over it in more detail here as its a) off topic and b) not something I'm going to elaborate on.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Not all court cases are made public, especially if there is an out of court settlement. Data can be requested to be retained / omitted. Plus the internet is not the repository of all knowledge, especially not in 1995, but this issue is well documented, it’s nothing to do with a fictional entity, that was solely Holdstocks IP, Bell and Braben had no involvement in its development, it was never in any game until 2014 and ED. This is grasping at wet straws and muddying already murky water.

I get all that and it is a very valid point. The problem is there is no conceivable way the first game happens before 3174 due to History of Lave beacon (so we are working 100% off of canonical events to Elite Dangerous) which states the following:

One of the oldest colonies of the sector, Colonial Deep Space Cruisers Herschel and Oberon reached the system then designated L-453 in 2412. Lave has been a Dictatorship from before the fall of the Galactic Cooperative. In 3174, Dr. Hans Walden came to power.

Walden established an authoritarian Dictatorship. The previous economic hardship brought about by the fall of the Galactic Cooperative were still remembered. Under Walden there was stability, just not prosperity.

Walden's rule was very long, and rumoured to involve genetic manipulation as he greatly extended his own life, with his eventual death at the hands of an assassin triggering a revolution.

----
GCS Saravasti/Project Equinox/Project Thunderchild/First Thargoid War by implication must happen before the first game. Yet, Faraway predates the first game (per Galnet "Galactic News: Hyperspace") by centuries per the following text from GalNet:

"Hyperspace technology originated in the early 22nd Century, but it wasn't until the 2800s that consumer ships began to take advantage of it."

This is why I am pointing out it is utterly impossible to have reverse-engineered unless this happens at Earth back during the 20th-21st centuries. This is why it is kind of important the first Thargoids (likely Thargoid Scouts) we meet would happen after Project Equinox is defunded (thus they are not detected) but also before INRA could have reverse-engineered the drives per "Galactic News: The Thargoids" in which the first records of INRA happen in 3125 (this year is mentioned in the GalNet entry). This is all using just in-game lore for Elite Dangerous. So, either humanity develops hyperspace entirely on our own or a Thargoid ship fell into our possession very, very early.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

The entire point of this exercise is to canonically prove beyond any shadow of a doubt a Sol origin for our hyperspace technology. Even using purely canonical in-game sources with no RPGs, no books, etc. there is no way our technology is Thargoid in origin without the reverse engineering occurring solely in Sol before we even leave the system for the first time. Thankfully, Sol is at least in the lore of every prior game all the way back to first game. Now, there are certainly expansions of this arc elsewhere in galaxy. That said, Raxxla as written by Holdstock depends on Earth and specifically Earth before we even get to the Moon itself during the earliest days of the space race.

The core lore for the Elite Universe only actually covers approximately 134 years of actual time because Frontier and First Encounters occur in parallel. The extended Elite Universe lore covers millions of years as I believe Alien World has events happening as far back as the Permian Era on Earth and very ancient Mars. Please quit overthinking on the game lore. The Holdstock stuff is present. Nothing was retconned. There were, however, a metric ton of propaganda, half-truths, and name changes. We merely misunderstood the story. The fact Earth ia present in Elite Dangerous is 100% absolutely intentional.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Not a lot of point in going over it in more detail here as its a) off topic and b) not something I'm going to elaborate on.

Can I just ask the following: if the Elite series is deemed to be in the same universe across all the games, Can we supplement our knowledge with the older lore in the other games? We have a number of renamed systems and/or planets between the gazetteer of Frontiers and the journals of First Encounters. Are those then fair game? I believe Frontier Developments has gone on the record to state it should be findable via Elite Dangerous itself. But are the gazetteer, journals, and prior manuals valid insofar as supplementing what we are given in Elite Dangerous if we are dealing with a singular Elite Universe?

Unfortunately, with Elite Dangerous we were left questioning how much of the older lore is valid. I think I've made the case that most is valid provided statements which may include propaganda or half-truths have some level of validity. I ask mainly because if the mythical station for The Dark Wheel exists, it is buried via systems where history has been buried by changes. I believe we have found some of the important stations which are the so-called palm tree stations or white stations. But the station that proves the authenticity of The Dark Wheel is still very much missing in action. The mythical station's proof, though, may not be material goods so much as something else. After all, we are told:

Find The Dark Wheel, find Raxxla.

 

[Comandante]

Can I just ask the following: if the Elite series is deemed to be in the same universe across all the games, Can we supplement our knowledge with the older lore in the other games? We have a number of renamed systems and/or planets between the gazetteer of Frontiers and the journals of First Encounters. Are those then fair game? I believe Frontier Developments has gone on the record to state it should be findable via Elite Dangerous itself. But are the gazetteer, journals, and prior manuals valid insofar as supplementing what we are given in Elite Dangerous if we are dealing with a singular Elite Universe?

No, we cannot supplement our knowledge.

The original games led to this one; Elite Dangerous lore is completely isolated from previous stories and characters unless those characters have been incorporated into this version of the game (Lave plus the other worlds; Thargoids; Raxxla; TDW; Jameson's and Ryder's; Generation ships, etc.). On top of that you have the fiction released associated with the game via books.

Allen wrote an excellent article on this thread several (probably more) pages back about this matter, I believe - not wanting to put words in his mouth. I'll see if I can dig it out later.

Unfortunately, with Elite Dangerous we were left questioning how much of the older lore is valid. I think I've made the case that most is valid provided statements which may include propaganda or half-truths have some level of validity. I ask mainly because if the mythical station for The Dark Wheel exists, it is buried via systems where history has been buried by changes. I believe we have found some of the important stations which are the so-called palm tree stations or white stations. But the station that proves the authenticity of The Dark Wheel is still very much missing in action. The mythical station's proof, though, may not be material goods so much as something else. After all, we are told:

Find The Dark Wheel, find Raxxla.

We are not left questioning the old lore. That which is not explicitly incorporated into this game is not part of the lore - at all.

 

[Allen Stroud]

A variety of different canons approach consistency and story in different ways.

Comic books retcon all the time. It is an accepted part of the fiction. New artist, new writer, some continuance applied, but scratch a little over time and it starts to raise questions.

Early (Earlier) Star Trek straight up states that most of the novels are not canon.

Disney made a massive decision to discard a huge amount of Star Wars fiction, creating the Legends branding specifically for them, but they remain a source of inspiration for further work.

Similarly, the MCU regularly uses the comic book lines as a starting point for new stories in the film series.

Doctor Who tries really hard, but some fans know more about the canon than the showrunners.

James Bond lost me as a fan when we got to Skyfall. The moment that 'James Bond' became the character's actual name meant I couldn't reconcile the actor change as an in fiction narrative choice. This combined with Judi Dench as 'M' for two Bonds, Brosnan and Craig, created a problem that broke my ability to enjoy the series.

So, the Elite Dangerous narrative.

The game is the primary text. Any official text endorsed as being official, derives from the game. The game is the main source.

Previous games should be viewed through the current game first. So, any valid links and connections will appear in E: D. If they are connected to anything else (Frontier: Elite 2) that's great, but you can't substitute Frontier: Elite 2 as a primary text because it isn't.

If you scratch at the narrative of Elite Dangerous looking to see a consistent timeline and background through the lore of all the games, interchanging the primary text as you do so, you'll find anomalies. The temptation is to creatively reconcile them, but recognise that by doing that, you're creating your own canon, not anyone else's.

My advice is to accept that Elite Dangerous is the primary text. Once I do, then seeing links from previous sources (for me) becomes a pleasurable experience in nostalgia. It also allows for the changes that have been made to not become a jarring issue for me when following ideas in that narrative.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

A variety of different canons approach consistency and story in different ways.

Comic books retcon all the time. It is an accepted part of the fiction. New artist, new writer, some continuance applied, but scratch a little over time and it starts to raise questions.

Early (Earlier) Star Trek straight up states that most of the novels are not canon.

Disney made a massive decision to discard a huge amount of Star Wars fiction, creating the Legends branding specifically for them, but they remain a source of inspiration for further work.

Similarly, the MCU regularly uses the comic book lines as a starting point for new stories in the film series.

Doctor Who tries really hard, but some fans know more about the canon than the showrunners.

James Bond lost me as a fan when we got to Skyfall. The moment that 'James Bond' became the character's actual name meant I couldn't reconcile the actor change as an in fiction narrative choice. This combined with Judi Dench as 'M' for two Bonds, Brosnan and Craig, created a problem that broke my ability to enjoy the series.

So, the Elite Dangerous narrative.

The game is the primary text. Any official text endorsed as being official, derives from the game. The game is the main source.

Previous games should be viewed through the current game first. So, any valid links and connections will appear in E: D. If they are connected to anything else (Frontier: Elite 2) that's great, but you can't substitute Frontier: Elite 2 as a primary text because it isn't.

If you scratch at the narrative of Elite Dangerous looking to see a consistent timeline and background through the lore of all the games, interchanging the primary text as you do so, you'll find anomalies. The temptation is to creatively reconcile them, but recognise that by doing that, you're creating your own canon, not anyone else's.

My advice is to accept that Elite Dangerous is the primary text. Once I do, then seeing links from previous sources (for me) becomes a pleasurable experience in nostalgia. It also allows for the changes that have been made to not become a jarring issue for me when following ideas in that narrative.

I think this is best advice you could give. Thank you. I'm off to go enjoy the beauty of the Milky Way Galaxy (and work on that Haloween story). I think you are right, in that happiness is what we make of it and is a very personal thing.

 

[simulacrae]

Well ive gone and purchased a shiny - if slightly used Dolphin from a friendly fellow I met on Ackwada (he even threw in a dog)... currently getting it outfitted (as well as de-trumbled, the dog was no help...) and I will soon start looking for rubes to take for a ride... in the hopes that they will lead me to Raxxla... yup thats the plan...

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

In light of incoming Stargoids you could name it “So long & thanks for all the fish”?

Copawlots are rarely any help, especially with Trumbles. But they are cute!
Except when they distract you asking for a walk just as you exit hyperspace in front of a supergiant....

My current trip has been profitable, 62MCr to date for exploration data when I docked yesterday. Almost every system between Crab Pulsar and 6 Cassiopeia was undiscovered, apart from a couple of NS. I thought I’d check out some obvious candidates for “Jewel on the brow”- Crab Pulsar, 6 Cas & V509 Cas, checked the systems and for comets but nothing found. Was going to check Rho Cas but arbitrarily decided, in light of my wrist pain, that was too far & someone else can check there for “comets”.

 

[Allen Stroud]

I think this is best advice you could give. Thank you. I'm off to go enjoy the beauty of the Milky Way Galaxy (and work on that Haloween story). I think you are right, in that happiness is what we make of it and is a very personal thing.

No worries. We all do it a little. In the 1980s, I used to imagine all the ships in Elite were other players and that the game secretly connected to everyone else playing it via the power cables. I had no idea what was to come.

More recently, a couple of years back, I wrote a little article about the Dark Wheel in Sagittarius Eye. It linked together a variety of little in game assets to create a narrative, but it was exactly that, carefully, weaving together a few disparate strands in a bit of entertaining guess work, not with any additional insight on my part.

In our contemporary society, we have to be careful about how we create narrative to link together ideas. There is nothing wrong with it as an imaginative act, but filling the absence of information with absolutism that treats speculation as fact can be a live wire when discussing real events, unfiltered by escapism (not here, and not that anyone is doing this). It is surprising to see how the processes cross over at times and how mythologies are built.

 

[Rochester]

What if Pandemonium is the celestial South Pole?

Warning space madness.

Not currently in game; what systems reside around the rough coordinates of: -33.5; 114; -47? (Edited).

For context, this is a location roughly opposite (to a degree) of Pandemonium, with Sol as the central axis, drawing a pole straight through them.

* This post will be updated/amended with further ramblings…

Putting aside for a moment my Yggdrasil conundrum, and the Tau Ceti sphere of influence; if we follow the logical application of Pandemonium’s placement, as identified by John Milton in Paradise Lost, it ought to be directly below Earth and directly opposite the Empyrean! In game that’s not entirely apparent, as it sits a little way off galactic south…but what if that’s intentional?

* The above image shows Pandemonium in relation to Sol (centre) with a pole drawn through them to identify celestial north and celestial south!

* Milton’s Division of universal space - Masson / Miltons Astronomy 1913

When Lucifer first observed the universe from the vantage point of the golden stairs from the apex, he saw as far between Aries and Libra; north and south. If we now introduce these two constellations into the equation they obviously align as East and West, identifying Pandemonium being at the actual South Celestial Pole.

* Above shows Aries and Libra, tilted so they correlate (left and right) with Pandemonium as the south pole and ‘-33.5; 114; -47’ as north.

* Celestial Equator and Ecliptic open source.

Taking Milton’s universe as inspiration, then Pandemonium sits well within the lower hemisphere (Chaos) as I presume was placed precisely as the South Celestial Pole! interestingly various other systems linked to Yggdrasil’s underworld are also in this lower hemisphere.

The upper hemisphere is effectively the heavens. This area is well within the sphere of influence depicted by the Tau Ceti 2296 sphere.

My running rambling theory then, is based on a presumption, what if M Brookes placed Raxxla in a location linked to the upper convex, the opening of the Jasper Sea (a literal portal) where the heavenly gates also reside… (a key motif in M Brookes commissioned artworks)!

This technically, according to Milton ought to be someplace within this upper hemisphere…the Empyrean!

Oddly if accurate Lucifers viaduct (which his offspring built him to aid his journey out of hell to the crystalline shell, ought not invade this Empyrean but touch the outer sphere whilst still in the realm of chaos (lower hemisphere / equator, because Lucifer walked a great distance upon that dark globe, before glimpsing a dawning light, the portal blazing.

In game there are no systems to date which match that name or description, except a system named Bridge, which sits relatively close to, and on the outside of the Tau Ceti sphere of influence, just below the celestial equator!

If true, then all this could identify a Milton universe model in game, if accurate and if utilised by Brookes to position Raxxla, it ought to be someplace within this upper hemisphere, or on the outer rim, this should theoretically reduce our search area by 50%!

If the system of ‘Bridge’ is also accurate then that gives us a point of origin and direction to begin a search on the outer rim of the sphere… although this is just space madness speculation.

 

[Zieman]

what systems reside at the X; Y; Z of: -34; 11.3; -48?

None.
Closest seems to be BD+69 238 or Atanua.

 

[Rochester]

None.
Closest seems to be BD+69 238 or Atanua.

Atanua in Polynesian mythology is the goddess of the dawn and wife of Atea. Their son is the first man, Tu-Mea. She created the seas after having a miscarriage and filling the oceans with her amniotic fluid.

?