Every time I see these, the first thing that comes to mind is a stick figure leaping for joy
Don't mind me, carry on...
The Quest To Find Raxxla
- Thread starter Macros Black
- Start date
Don't mind me, carry on...
There is a lot to unpack in this thread, and it gets a little heavy replicating everything uncovered so far, ever so often; so my apologies if I’ve skirted over or not answered everything..I’ve unpacked previously, it is a big concept.
"Jewel on the brow" has I would argue been deciphered.
The term is a poetic reference to the John Milton text of his description of what paradise/eden was in Paradise Lost; a physical crystalline sphere, holding within it the sphere’s of our universe… with our solar system at the centre.
This sphere hung by a chain from the Empyrean/heaven. Milton stated this was from the ‘brow’ of the hill that encircled heaven.
Satan upon his return journey did not know where to go, he them stumbled upon and is given direction by the entity Chaos, who calls it the pendant globe and that it hung from heaven by a chain, by this point in Milton’s text it’s technically the second time this description is used.
Satan then moves on, eventually getting to such a lofty vantage point, so as to effectively see the entirety of the Empyrean… it has the appropriate appearance of as if like a galaxy, large and expansive, with a defined border and made of light, and from his new point of view (the readers vantage point), Satan, sees the pendant universe hanging from the Empyrean, as if like a distant star as seen beside of the enormity of our moon as if see from the Earth; tiny but brilliant. In the text this is I recall the third time this description is given.
In other parts of the text the Empyrean is supposedly made of stars and living jewels, and a certain road is implied to be as if like the Milky Way, which is a classical Greek reference.
I suspect the author of the Codex was using a mixed metaphor to describe the Empyrean, as in ‘oh wow that is the mother of galaxies’ as in big / expansive.
In game there is I believe, a replication of Milton’s wider cosmology, with the Empyrean at the top. I also believe the author in game is heavily referencing the works of Robert Holdstock as in and around this Empyrean area are a number of female triad goddesses…
In Holdstock’s works he used this triad to mark the doorways to mystical secrets or referenced old Celtic creation myths…. I think the in game author has utilised this to advocate the location of Raxxla. So ‘mother of galaxies’ in game may have a dual meaning?
In game the older dark wheel missions talked about the ‘silent song of the spheres’ and of something being ‘obfuscated on the outer rim’.
In the text Satan walked upon the outer rim of the crystalline sphere on its outer rim…
Later in game within the Brookes Tours FD insert a direct quote from Paradise Lost in the same instance of them talking of Raxxla, this quotation is the description of the Pendant Globe.
So I would argue the first line of the toast is describing the pendant globe. Aka Raxxla is a type of Eden and if the quotation is used accurately in game it hangs from the Empyrean.
The last part of the toast I feel likewise is referring to the same element of the first line and probably is describing Satan as a wanderer trying to find Eden.
I also suspect the in game author is applying a dual metaphor for Satan and the epic of Gilgamesh, because that story was utilised by Holdstock, and it has has a number of mythic / classical similarities. The locations of Gilgamesh are likewise in game…and are in the upper celestial sphere closest to the hypothetical Empyrean.
Last edited:
@Rochester
I'm still trying to get my head around this Miltonian cosmology in-game.
As I understand it Sol should be in the centre?
Have you figured out the plane and central coordinates of the Empyrean's floor? (To which the golden chain should be attached)
...it seems to me that the axes are shifted wrt galactic coordinates, especially looking at the "Greek wind compass" which seems quite a lot shifted and not orthogonal.
Does the axis of this cosmology pass through Axis Mundi system?
I'm assuming system "Fall" should lie on that Empyrean floor?
I'm still trying to get my head around this Miltonian cosmology in-game.
As I understand it Sol should be in the centre?
Have you figured out the plane and central coordinates of the Empyrean's floor? (To which the golden chain should be attached)
...it seems to me that the axes are shifted wrt galactic coordinates, especially looking at the "Greek wind compass" which seems quite a lot shifted and not orthogonal.
Does the axis of this cosmology pass through Axis Mundi system?
I'm assuming system "Fall" should lie on that Empyrean floor?
Yes. My understanding is based upon the path of Jacques and the establishment of the theory that the base of Chaos and his ‘throne’ denotes the lowest point of the zone of chaos.
I also propose the zone of Chaos is replicated in game as a bubble of storm gods around Sol.
An axis may be drawn from the southern point through Sol (centroid of Chaos) upwards towards Olorun.
I believe the zone of the Empyrean is an area denoted by creation deities, and those related to northern aspects eg Sun gods etc, they do seem to form a layer.
I feel this axis is shifted from standard galactic north/south and that it follows the in game greek compass alignment, oh and that the tree of Yggdrasil follows this axis too!
Of course I always hold that I’m equally potentially wrong… it’s just that I’m seeing too many coincidences.
Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10304929
I also propose the zone of Chaos is replicated in game as a bubble of storm gods around Sol.
An axis may be drawn from the southern point through Sol (centroid of Chaos) upwards towards Olorun.
I believe the zone of the Empyrean is an area denoted by creation deities, and those related to northern aspects eg Sun gods etc, they do seem to form a layer.
I feel this axis is shifted from standard galactic north/south and that it follows the in game greek compass alignment, oh and that the tree of Yggdrasil follows this axis too!
Of course I always hold that I’m equally potentially wrong… it’s just that I’m seeing too many coincidences.
Post in thread 'The Quest To Find Raxxla'
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10304929
Last edited:
Mmm, if I read PL correctly then Satan and his legions were expelled from the North side of the Empyrean, where their rebellion started, so Fall should be on the North side and placed at the level of the Empyrean floor. I'm now suspicious of the Greek Winds Compass- it seems to be totally at odds with the axes of Miltons cosmos...Boreas/Notus seems to be vertical!
And if Raxxla is Milton's "pendent world" how long is the "golden chain/staircase"??
And if Raxxla is Milton's "pendent world" how long is the "golden chain/staircase"??
Yeah there are certain aspects which don’t seem to gel, I’ve always tried to establish this, again I ask Cmdrs to challenge my assumptions, I’m making links based on a level of assumption with very little information; and trying to weigh these up to assess a level of probability…
I think the Greek compass makes sense but - I’m from a creative background and used to thinking and interpreting abstract concepts, I’m also scientifically trained so my clinical mind is always looking for logical alignments, it’s conflicting, but allows me to make creative leaps when faced with intelligence gaps or seeing patterns in random data… but I always hold that some of it may be pattern bias..
I also wonder if in game there is a tiered construct in place… this would fit certain concepts of Milton’s PL. Also it explains why no Norse underworld locations aren’t in the Greek underworld, except those linked to an ‘outer world’ or denoting the ‘edge of the world’…
It’s a big 3D construct that I know is difficult to perceive, and it’s reliant upon the use of numerous cultural aspects, which I believe is intentional, but likewise very clever, otherwise it would be very obvious.
Again I put it that this is all architectural and probably not supposed to be seen in this context. That’s why I wonder if Raxxla is the philosophers stone, and it actually helps us (in game) see this construct?
I’m used to seeing such data as I come from a ‘mapping’ background with years of experience, so I can see the design; Im used to mentally handling layers of relationship data…. If it’s correct this is astonishing. If ifs not then I’ve totally lost the plot…and that wouldn’t be such a bad thing, I’ve enjoyed the ride.
Last edited:
Good point, technically paradise as I recall was outside and just below the Empyrean, so not actually part of heaven. But it was no where near hell.
I understand Milton appropriated this chain motif from Greek mythology, but essentially as I interpret, it was also to give his reader comfort, essentially saying although paradise was not part of heaven it wasn’t too far removed and could be pulled up.
From my recollection Hell was as expansive as heaven, but unlike heaven was enclosed by a ceiling, a prison. Heaven had no sky but it had a boundary wall which was inclined by a living steep hill or battlement.
Paradise the pendant globe, was created after the war in heaven on the ‘brink’ of chaos and could be reached with relative ease, by humans and angels, advocating in my opinion the chain was not long in comparison.
The staircase to heavens gate was retractable, but wasn’t a ladder, so it advocated paradise probably hung just off away from the gate. Interestingly Satans viaduct or bridge was also attached to paradise after the second fall, fixing it in place…
When Satan walked on the outside of the pendant globe (a fascinating visual concept) he accidentally finds limbo and like it the outer sphere of the globe is still beset by the storms of chaos.
In game I believe the zone of chaos / storm gods has an intensional boundary. Visually when mapped they form a bubble.
Logically then Paradise if it is Raxxla, and the game is following this Miltonian model, ought to be on Chaos’s outer rim.
Logically it ought to be somewhere in the Northern or Northwestern aspect, this is based on one accepted interpretation of the text, but others do exist which conflict this, so this injects a level of doubt into my hypothesis, my current theory is only based off hypothesis assumptions of the data provided…
I feel the Greek compass in game is our ‘current’ option, unless another can be found. I think it odd it’s included in the game, and can only surmise it was done so intentionally, otherwise everything is simply arbitrary and this theory falls totally apart.
Again I only promote this theory in the absence of any other information.
So theoretically we don’t actually need to know the length of the chain, we only need to know where chaos starts and a general indication of where the gate of heaven is relatively.
I presume it’s intentionally left ambiguous to make it difficult, but likewise I presume a number of ambiguous clues are provided to establish this vague area, for instance in the area I’m ‘currently’ advocating - there are a number of systems named after lost realms or paradises; oddly much like in the Lost Realms in the lower celestial sphere….
There is we have to likewise consider that the advent of the Brookes Tours was placed internationally to highlight not just his wider influence in game but the underworld zone, and or likewise the Lost Realms zone, which if not just a Holdstock Easter egg, might still be an example of a perversion of heaven and maybe Raxxla is hidden there, but we are then going against the Miltonian concept of paradise hanging from heaven ….
Last edited:
Been asked to repost certain images for context and sense checking:
Image below is of all systems named after gods I’ve ‘currently’ found (each are listed elsewhere in the thread and I’m find more all the time). The image is in line with galactic north. I have overlaid the Greek compass too for comparison.
Note how it’s a little tiered, or stepped, the lower area to the hypothetical South East is the Lost Realms zone.
Then next is the same image but with the systems (not all) that hit the Underworld description (red) any gods in that zone are also underworld gods, I just ran out of patience and left them white - but you get the drift.
Those that hit the storm description are purple, again not coloured them all…
Note how the underworld is rather expensive and the upper gods sort of form a peak above the hypothetical chaos zone?
This last one shows the compass tilted, along with the Morrigans, and Brookes Tours, which goes through the Lost Realms and intersects a triad set of goddesses, further along a system called Michel and Sopedu ‘the Guardian of the East gate seem to align with the Greek compass for East?
Image below is of all systems named after gods I’ve ‘currently’ found (each are listed elsewhere in the thread and I’m find more all the time). The image is in line with galactic north. I have overlaid the Greek compass too for comparison.
Note how it’s a little tiered, or stepped, the lower area to the hypothetical South East is the Lost Realms zone.
Then next is the same image but with the systems (not all) that hit the Underworld description (red) any gods in that zone are also underworld gods, I just ran out of patience and left them white - but you get the drift.
Those that hit the storm description are purple, again not coloured them all…
Note how the underworld is rather expensive and the upper gods sort of form a peak above the hypothetical chaos zone?
This last one shows the compass tilted, along with the Morrigans, and Brookes Tours, which goes through the Lost Realms and intersects a triad set of goddesses, further along a system called Michel and Sopedu ‘the Guardian of the East gate seem to align with the Greek compass for East?
Last edited:
The short version: everything seems to be built around a Miltonian Cosmos with the mythical Yggdrasil kind of establishing the layers. It is much like Michael Brookes' famous tattoo. Where and what Raxxla is exactly are still very much a matter of debate. That said, codex seems to provide a few way to investigate that somewhat parallel each other. Beyond that, that is the current state of affairs. Michael Brookes was a huge fan of John Milton's "Paradise Lost".
Yes, that shows my reason for disbelieving the Greek Winds Compass- North is pointing to the top of the Empyrean. Instead of along the plane of the Empyrean's floor...it should be rotated vertically through 90°. I think that's highlighted if you overlay Fall...if that represents where Satan & his legions were expelled from Heaven it should be on the North side of the Empyrean floor because Milton has the North as the location of their rebellion and expulsion.
Yup how true.
The compass points for North / South I initially thought were just applicable to ‘up and down’ it’s just so odd that these do correlate with the positions of ‘higher gods and lower gods’ aspects building an upper area and a lower area…
But you’re correct, in my only recent reading I now acknowledge that all the compass points ought to align on a 2D plain, from the view point of ‘god’ looking down.
This is why it’s integral to sense check this data. Is it correct; how can we make sure it’s accurate; did the devs do this intentionally; is this broken?
Remember that FD turned off the original PF/DW missions…
Remember there are lots of errors in star positions and various bugs in game.. what is intentional by design, what is simply wrong by accident?!
It’s still very peculiar…why; or am I simply looking for affirmation in game where there isn’t any?
Irrespective the one thing I dislike about this puzzle is the glaring hole in the process; but that is our primary problem, we are dealing with an allegorical puzzle with basically no fixed reference points, in a haystack made of needles, where the ‘obvious’ reference points (DW) turns out to be either broken or simply a lie.
Last edited:
I still think Vega is the best starting point. In addition to the points in the post: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/page-1591#post-10245730,
Vega also sits directly on top of the Andomeda galaxy, when viewed from Lave. The Jewel in TDW's toast is probably from TDW viewpoint of the galaxy. That is most likely from the old worlds region.
I also found this:
"
Source: https://earthandstarryheaven.com/2016/07/02/vega/
The Zoroastrian religon is an old Iranian religion, often considered the first Monotheis religion in the midle east. The prophet Zoroaster is the same person as Nietzsche's Zarathustra and the inspiration for this music by Straus.
Vega also sits directly on top of the Andomeda galaxy, when viewed from Lave. The Jewel in TDW's toast is probably from TDW viewpoint of the galaxy. That is most likely from the old worlds region.
I also found this:
"
Persian: Guardian Star
In the Zoroastrian religon, Vega was one of the four stars who protected the earth. Vanant (Conqueror) ruled the western quarter, and he guarded the gates the sun passed through each day. The others were Tishtrya/Sirius (East), Satavaesa/Antares (South), and Hapto-iriñga/Ursa Major (North)."Source: https://earthandstarryheaven.com/2016/07/02/vega/
The Zoroastrian religon is an old Iranian religion, often considered the first Monotheis religion in the midle east. The prophet Zoroaster is the same person as Nietzsche's Zarathustra and the inspiration for this music by Straus.
I don't think anything is directly broken. I suspect you have way to much data included in your model and it gets cluttered. Remember that FD and MB had a very short time to implement hand-written data in galaxy. Mysteries was not a high priority at release. Releasing a semi-functional game was the priority.
I would love to see what you end up with, if you peal of everything that isn't directly relatable to the codex, in-game data, the mission texts or the TDW book.
Edit: I would be extra interested in how it looks when viewed from Sol. It would be interesting if they actually made something that makes sense, when standing on earth, watching the night sky.
Last edited: