and what systems have moons at such a close orbit
That would certainly be an extremely unusual arrangement. 8th moons don't seem to appear at all within 100Ls of a primary star, so it then seems odd if the mass of a secondary star doesn't disrupt their formation either, but maybe the rules for generating cobinary objects end up slightly different.

You'd need the arrangement to have the M-star cobinary with the gas giant, at a tight enough separation that for at least some of its orbit the 8th moon was within 10Ls of the star. So a maximum separation of the principal bodies of <20Ls, and a maximum orbital radius of the 8th moon of <10Ls (or it'd be orbiting the star instead)

You can get 8th moons that close to a gas giant - they're rare, but not unheard of. A light enough VI-luminosity M dwarf and a heavy enough gas giant might allow a cobinary relationship at that distance. Having any sort of M-class star as a secondary object implies that the primary star is going to need to be at least B-class and maybe heavier, but it's certainly not unusual once you do. But can you get all of that at once?

Seems worth a trawl through the exploration databases for it, though it'll take a while for me to get the right sort of search to pick all of those conditions up.

Right here's another head scratcher then whilst we are on the Station.
Again just following in game stuff we learn that the Brewer Corporation have been making Coriolis stations since 2752.
It says the second design was the Orbis (possible toroid).
BUT Cora talks about Raxxla in 2296, is this before the DW existed as the codex also talks about the DW faction in SD forming in 3300.
The codex I think makes clear that whatever the DW faction in SD is, it's certainly not the first (or fiftieth...) time anyone has set up a group and called it "The Dark Wheel".

Whether the original Dark Wheel goes all the way back to 2296 or earlier I think is harder to say, but it certainly long predates 3300.

Its the station thing that's killing me because way back in the first game it said that the first ever station (built by Galactic Astronautic and Space Exploration Centre) was around Lave also in 2752.
Were there no space stations before that then? where and when did the DW set up?
The text in the original Elite Manual says
Elite Manual said:
Coriolis stations were designed at the GASEC (Galactic Astronautic and Space Exploration Center) Laboratories on the planet Vetitice. The first station was in orbit around the world Lave in 2752.
So I think it's clear from the context (this is all in a subsection talking specifically about Coriolis stations) that "first station" in the second sentence means "first Coriolis station". Presumably before that some other station designs were used none of which (apparently?) survive in active service in 3310.

(The first space station - Salyut 1 - was put into orbit in 1971, thirteen years before the original Elite, so it clearly can't mean "humanity's first ever space station"; the FE2 timeline diverges from our own sometime in the 1990s)

What i am trying to establish is the extent that humanity had travelled (and set up a station) when Cora said those infamous words.
Achenar was settled in 2292 - unusually distant at the time for a major colonisation project, but that definitely only sets a minimum distance for how far basic travel/survey/exploration could have gone and how far out smaller settlements/research stations/secret military bases might have been established.
 
Please do read the first page, there are areas which describe specifically how the ‘old missions’ were originally found to be have been removed.
i'm guessing you're meaning me? ( for some reason you never seem to QUOTE the person you're responding to lol )

Anyways, i've already read the first page and i'm still confused ( and disappointed ) because i don't understand why the Codex entry remains then. Just a big taunting tease? Seems odd and cruel , in my opinion.
You post a good question, the answer is an unknown unfortunately, we can only hazard a guess as to why.
Again , i'm going to presume you're referring to my question from earlier? But yeah all the "guessing" can be fun i suppose....unless dedicated players like you are still guessing 10 years later lol . Heck i've only been searching for RAXXLA ( and therefore 'Dark Wheel' ) going on barely 5 months and i'm already losing a tiny bit of hope. Just a bit though. Nothing more.
We know not from the game but through support and devs: that at one point these missions were ultimately removed.
Baffles me when super cool mystery content is just removed from a game , but i guess they had their reasons.
But other elements linked to ‘that story’ left in game!
Again, hence my confusion.
Additionally never released content, models, video and audio has been found in the code, and since removed.

In conclusion: the game existed in a prior state of development than it does now. But something changed and FD decided - as they used the words themselves in the Dev support tickets, to remove that story.

This happens in game development.
Sure. Happened to me with my beloved SWG. However, why then leave the CODEX entry ? That's either sloppy or cruel or....purposeful ( because 'Raxxla' still exists ) .
Personally I suspect FD have done this with the expectation that the player base would not have noticed.
Then they ( 'FDev' ) were foolish in their own hubris , because any wise MMO developer should know by now that players/fans notice EVERYTHING. ( even more than QA does ) .
Personally I believe FD wrote the codex as a way to explain away this blip,
hmm, interesting if that's true we may never know until what maybe 5 years from now when EliteD finally shuts down in favor of a new more modern version?
Your question is valid. And that is the primary reason we asked that question to FD because to any new player who does not understand the lore (which itself is malleable) one interpretation advocates a certain path is true, over the other and is instructing players perform redundant tasks.
Again, i'm going to presume you are talking about "my" question? ( if i'm wrong, then i apologize )

So yes i agree with your point and tbh i myself am a prime example of it. Particularly what happened to me past 24 hours in this very thread. ( of going from "omg i found Dark Wheel system!!" to reading Ian's post and then thinking "ugh i found nothing" lol )
I think the codex text is written intelligently because FD know their player base is rather informed,
Well but that ^ statement you just typed that i quoted seems to contradict the other statement 3 quotes above ^^^ which you also began with the word "Personally" , does it not? FDev can't both be oblivious AND intelligent at the same time, can they? Either they assumed playerbase wouldn't notice or they assumed they would. There's no in between there. ( Unless maybe it was 2 different FDev teams? )
Try to remember that a lot that we take for granted now either wasn't in anyone's mind (EDSM, INARA, EDMC, Wiki, Reddit, etc.etc.) or was a totally unknown quantity (how the players would respond to/shape the game itself as time goes on, what kinds of communities would form, what things the playerbase would get hooked into, etc.).
Excellent point yep. And quite frankly , one of the main reasons why a 5-month newb like me can even get this far along so quickly is (other than my own dedication, skills, + help from pilot vets ingame) because of especially the 'Inara' site since it saves soooooooooo much wasted time.
- how could anything be hidden here that wouldn't have been discovered accidentally by now anyway?
Because most casual players don't even realize what ( or if ) they've discovered?

Also because of the whole vastness fact of , even after 10 years, players have only explored " barely 1% of existing EliteD universe" and all that?
 
Because most casual players don't even realize what ( or if ) they've discovered?
Sure. I don't know what I'm looking for out here so someone who wasn't looking for it might not recognise it either. But that doesn't give me any hints towards what I should be looking for either...

Also because of the whole vastness fact of , even after 10 years, players have only explored " barely 1% of existing EliteD universe" and all that?
True in the case of a random system. I'm poking around in and near one of the most well-explored nebulae in the game that's been a waypoint of multiple organised expeditions. Every system here has been repeatedly scanned and many of them have full sets of first mapped and first footfall tags too. If there's something here, it's either hidden in such a way that normal exploration tools won't find it, or it's in plain sight in such a way that normal exploration tools won't highlight it.

Which is of course very hard to tell apart from "there's nothing at all here, maybe the weird arrangement of SAO stars is just one of those things"
 
Seems worth a trawl through the exploration databases for it, though it'll take a while for me to get the right sort of search to pick all of those conditions up.
Having done this experiment, I think I can conclude at least one of these things must be true
1) The Codex picture isn't of the Dark Wheel station
2) The DW station is not actually around an 8th moon of a gas giant
3) The DW station is in an extremely unusual system - possibly fully hand-edited, but otherwise "world of death" level rarity - which has probably not yet been discovered at all
4) The star is a distant red giant (or some other extremely large red star) after all and there's some other explanation for the visual artefacts which make it look like a nearby red dwarf.

8th moons around cobinary gas giants (or around gas giants themselves orbiting a star) aren't unheard of - but either the gas giant is the heavier object in its cobinary system, or the radius of the cobinary system is far too large - even allowing a separation of 200Ls where the star would be a tiny dot rather than the necessary 10Ls seems to only allow for Y-class stars to be part of this configuration, not even the larger brown dwarf classes.

This makes sense - a complex moon system shouldn't be stable within a few Ls of any stellar-mass object - but means that the picture is likely just of some random Orbis orbiting a planet near a star. Disappointing if so given that it's one of the few pieces of apparent information available, but never mind.
 
Some reminders and some new information.

- This is the the 4th game in a series. Therefore, the past cannot just be dismissed as irrelevant.

Elite Series 4th Game Elite Dangerous credits.png


The Alleged Toast of The Dark Wheel is part of the Raxxla entry. The Knowledge Base is a product of Elite Pilots' Federation in Shinrarta Dezhra. There is a great deal of secrecy surrounding Pilots' Federation and Elite Pilots' Federation of which The Dark Wheel is one clique. Financially, The Pilots' Federation financially controls most of the Bubble at least indirectly (though there are significant questions regarding native factions).

Regarding, the part of the Raxxla Knowledge Base about "Princess Astrophel and the Spiraling Stars", I believe that is a metaphor for the real story which may well be hinted at in Elite: Legacy.
1000020779.jpg


I believe this story is Sun Dragon by Michael Brookes and its companion website that has since gone down Tau Ceti Mission. It was developed in parallel to the Raxxla puzzle. The Tau Ceti Mission was an expansion of sorts to Sun Dragon. Sun Dragon is presently on Amazon and various e-book stores.

What was the phrase in Elite: Legacy?
... a single book about a young man's quest to save a princess from an alien dragon. My father must have bought it on the black market. He couldn't have gotten it from anywhere else.

Fortunately, I have the complete Tau Ceti Mission.
 
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Good point @CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian - Thanks for the link.

Time and again we’ve quickly identified various aspects of the codex literally, but our doubts and the texts apparent looseness has encouraged us to go down a thousand rabbit holes.

Yes ‘that book’ is one of maybe two sources, primarily Legacy.

Logical intelligence assessment requires you breakdown the text which is presented to you. Any and all text in that evidence (codex) is therefore potentially relevant. Given this is a game the universe of probability is shrunk considerably in our favour, in that how the text is written is an indication of what it contains.

It’s evident the text of Legacy is key, This is reiterated by the memorial tours whose journey and text reinforce the importance of Legacy as a key point.

That part of the text is alluded to an outside literary source.

The issue I have is in the title. The term Astrophel is a unique word created by the poet Philip Sidney, which is a combination of words which literally translates as Star Lover.

However, it also a male prefix, which given how far removed Sidney is contextually from the other source material it although very obvious is probably a miss interpretation by the game author and probably was used directly as a metaphor as in Princess Starlover.

So who in Legacy is the royal protagonist! None except maybe Julia (Joves child) but that is not a moniker for royalty?

I propose the codex author is referencing to Legacy directly, and something in that text which is identifying a location. The mysterious children’s story I doubt is an actual book, the author is simply implying to look at one text.. but they maybe loading it with multiple layers which could relate to other texts?!?

Sidney wrote his text as a homage to his real life love; but MB never actually wrote about him? - ever. But MB did write about another, who similarly also wrote their text as a tribute to unrequited love.

Dante.

Many of the aspects of the Devine Comedy marries the theoretical aspects in game. Oddly none of those actually physically correlate as much as they do with Milton’s Cosmology, which can be interpreted to be in game. But the story of Dante’s is about love of and it involves a mountain, and important a spiralling path whose summit (Eden) is beset by stars…?

I have read Sun Dragons and Tau Ceti. I cannot find any direct reference (to date). I maybe wrong, I use critical and academic analysis, granted this may blind me in various respects, but textually context is key, and I cannot yet find any direct contextualisation. But I’m no expert.

So if Legacy is the correct source, I believe the codex is the key, and that it’s multi layered, so it’s open to debate.

Currently I am following the logical spacial references and that it is in Brookes / Hammers directions, to the Beautiful Mountain below Achernar.

This location marries that identifiable in the Codex, namely the Lost Reslms…
 
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I've always been pretty convinced that the Dark Wheel in SD is a fake, and the secret missions against them stopped because the player base expanded it to much.

Unfortunately as one guy I cant shrink it back down to SD and also feel bad for the other players :D - but a public figure like that goes against everything the Dark Wheel shows to originally stand for.

I do always wonder if it was decreased to SD again if some of the missions will come back.
 
and the secret missions against them stopped because the player base expanded it to much
The timing doesn't work for that - the Dark Wheel's first (possibly accidental) expansion out of Shinrarta wasn't until late 2018, and the missions had been gone for years by that point. The deliberate attempts to get it into control of that second system to make a second expansion didn't start until even later - May 2020.
 
The timing doesn't work for that - the Dark Wheel's first (possibly accidental) expansion out of Shinrarta wasn't until late 2018, and the missions had been gone for years by that point. The deliberate attempts to get it into control of that second system to make a second expansion didn't start until even later - May 2020.
Well my memory was out then :D

I thought the missions were 2018 and TDW was gaining rep at the same time. Ill sit back down :D
 
Many of the aspects of the Devine Comedy marries the theoretical aspects in game. Oddly none of those actually physically correlate as much as they do with Milton’s Cosmology, which can be interpreted to be in game. But the story of Dante’s is about love of and it involves a mountain, and important a spiralling path whose summit (Eden) is beset by stars…?
The reason I lean towards Spiraling Stars referencing Sun Dragon is Draco, the spiraling constellation guarding the northern celestial sphere as viewed from Earth. Draco means Dragon.

We've lost several female protagonists over the years that got involved in The Dark Wheel. One of them even visited Mars High in Sol. The legends are unanimous on one point - that a great celestial bear (Ursa Major) is visible from a key system proving the rumors of Raxxla is real. TDW makes countless references to Sol directly as does Lavian Brandy. Maybe understanding what went down with Tau Ceti and Mayflower 97 is the key. There is the massive problem of Capella after all.

LavianBrandyAdvertisement.jpg


 
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We keep going around and around (lol) with this but we're outright told the answer in the lore, both in the Codex and in the novel Premonition.

The Shinrarta Dark Wheel is not really a "fake", exactly... read the actual source text below:



"“Shinrarta Dezhra?’ The woman laughed, her scorn plain to hear. ‘You think the Dark Wheel advertises on a station board in plain sight? That we need rookie pilots to drag a couple of tonnes of thrumpberry flavouring across to Hutton Orbital? A trivial ploy to keep the Founders off our backs.’

‘I’m gratified to hear it,’ Thorn replied. ‘You had me worried for a moment.’

‘It was a little too obvious,’ Lestenio agreed.

‘It keeps the treasure seekers and wishful thinkers occupied,’ the woman said. ‘They believe they are onto something. They have their uses for occasional menial activities. The truth is far more subtle than they will ever suspect. Shinrarta is merely a front.’

‘So …?’

‘You should not consider the Dark Wheel a single organisation, gentlemen. How could it survive for so long if it were? The Wheel has many levels, many hubs, cogs, gears and spokes. It is more akin to an affiliation of organisations that share certain common goals. Interlocking in purpose. Consider yourselves now spinning on the outermost rim.”"


Excerpt From
Elite Dangerous: Premonition



Drew Wagar (the author of Premonition) has repeatedly stated in his (many) livestreams over many years that he was outright given the above info by Fdev themselves, hence why he wrote it into his book.

So to be clear, the Shinrarta Dark Wheel it's not "the real Dark Wheel" ... but it is a real Dark Wheel in that it exists to literally do what it's been doing all these years, distract folks who want to find the 'true' Dark Wheel, it's allowed to function by other parts of the Dark Wheel because it's doing a good job, and therefore, it sort of is a real Dark Wheel faction, just not part of any "inner secrets".

Again we're outright told here (and we've seen in And Here The Wheel too) that the Dark Wheel isn't a single group, it's split at least once (more likely hundreds of times). There probably isn't even a 'real' Dark Wheel to find, there's probably a lot of folks who think they are in the "Real" Dark wheel and they might even claim the others are fakes...

If the supposed station is real, then it's likely that whoever controls that will be at least some inner part of a Dark Wheel faction.

But consider what we know from And Here The Wheel: The Ryders took over running the (or more likely a faction of the) Dark Wheel, and eventually even that splintered into two factions, one went to find Soontil, the other kept looking for Raxxla. We know at least those factions are out there still, or versions of them - and at least one of those factions didn't even call themselves The Dark Wheel.

So in short: There's lots of "Dark Wheel" factions, maybe hundreds of them (the player factions are likely candidates for this too). I still maintain that we (players seeking out mystery) are supposed to be the "Real" Dark Wheel at this point (or factions thereof), that fits with Fdevs intention of making the galaxy player-driven (more or less), and without any specific 'story driven' campaign style gameplay.
 
We keep going around and around (lol) with this but we're outright told the answer in the lore, both in the Codex and in the novel Premonition.

The Shinrarta Dark Wheel is not really a "fake", exactly... read the actual source text below:



"“Shinrarta Dezhra?’ The woman laughed, her scorn plain to hear. ‘You think the Dark Wheel advertises on a station board in plain sight? That we need rookie pilots to drag a couple of tonnes of thrumpberry flavouring across to Hutton Orbital? A trivial ploy to keep the Founders off our backs.’

‘I’m gratified to hear it,’ Thorn replied. ‘You had me worried for a moment.’

‘It was a little too obvious,’ Lestenio agreed.

‘It keeps the treasure seekers and wishful thinkers occupied,’ the woman said. ‘They believe they are onto something. They have their uses for occasional menial activities. The truth is far more subtle than they will ever suspect. Shinrarta is merely a front.’

‘So …?’

‘You should not consider the Dark Wheel a single organisation, gentlemen. How could it survive for so long if it were? The Wheel has many levels, many hubs, cogs, gears and spokes. It is more akin to an affiliation of organisations that share certain common goals. Interlocking in purpose. Consider yourselves now spinning on the outermost rim.”"


Excerpt From
Elite Dangerous: Premonition



Drew Wagar (the author of Premonition) has repeatedly stated in his (many) livestreams over many years that he was outright given the above info by Fdev themselves, hence why he wrote it into his book.

So to be clear, the Shinrarta Dark Wheel it's not "the real Dark Wheel" ... but it is a real Dark Wheel in that it exists to literally do what it's been doing all these years, distract folks who want to find the 'true' Dark Wheel, it's allowed to function by other parts of the Dark Wheel because it's doing a good job, and therefore, it sort of is a real Dark Wheel faction, just not part of any "inner secrets".

Again we're outright told here (and we've seen in And Here The Wheel too) that the Dark Wheel isn't a single group, it's split at least once (more likely hundreds of times). There probably isn't even a 'real' Dark Wheel to find, there's probably a lot of folks who think they are in the "Real" Dark wheel and they might even claim the others are fakes...

If the supposed station is real, then it's likely that whoever controls that will be at least some inner part of a Dark Wheel faction.

But consider what we know from And Here The Wheel: The Ryders took over running the (or more likely a faction of the) Dark Wheel, and eventually even that splintered into two factions, one went to find Soontil, the other kept looking for Raxxla. We know at least those factions are out there still, or versions of them - and at least one of those factions didn't even call themselves The Dark Wheel.

So in short: There's lots of "Dark Wheel" factions, maybe hundreds of them (the player factions are likely candidates for this too). I still maintain that we (players seeking out mystery) are supposed to be the "Real" Dark Wheel at this point (or factions thereof), that fits with Fdevs intention of making the galaxy player-driven (more or less), and without any specific 'story driven' campaign style gameplay.
This lines up nicely with the regional hubs that are the Nostrum Starports - on of which is in Tau Ceti (Ortiz Moreno City). You've probably heard me call them 🌴 stations. Of note, there is Brooks Estate in Pi-Fang that is another. I am not sure if the spelling is altered to hide the connection. That, too, is one of the special starports.
 
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Well my memory was out then :D

I thought the missions were 2018 and TDW was gaining rep at the same time. Ill sit back down :D
The E/F missions disappeared in 2016. They were bugged, but they could have been fixed, so the fact that they were instead totally withdrawn suggests to me that either their purpose was OBE, or that they were too successful. This might be supported by the lack of FD clarification over their disappearance-they do not comment on anything related to Raxxla. If you look at their descriptions (first page of thread) closely several were promulgated by the Pilot's Federation against TDW in SD. We are told in one TB that (the real) TDW was a faction within PF, and Elite Premonition (proof read so tacitly approved by MB) reinforces (also suggested in the codex in Felicity's text) that TDW in SD are a false front distracting attention from the real TDW. At game outset there were 5 different spellings of PF...one could be allied by running missions for PF Local Branch in SD, one could be allied by killing Thargoids &/or by rescuing passengers from damaged stations & Davanix reported getting allied with another ( by gaining combat bonds after fighting against Jupiter Rochester in the HIP 54530 CG). Never found out how to ally with the other(s). The "you are now allied with" message that came up in the cockpit used the different PF spellings, and you got that message even if you were already allied with one or more of the other PF spellings.

So I think this was part & parcel of MB's "in-game Raxxla storyline" that he mentioned on the forum (see link to FD Quotes thread via my signature). So why were those missions withdrawn? Could be that the Raxxla storyline was deemed too hard, but IMO more likely too easy & those missions were deemed to be overemphasising the PF. Could be that the PF factions were actually removed (the SD TB showing the spelling differences were all corrected a while ago, though much later than 2016). Could be that there were actually two storylines, for Raxxla and TDW, and they were unrelated. Could be that FD decided on commercial grounds to emphasise the Thargoid storyline and concentrated effort so something had to go... don't suppose we'll ever know without MB.

Extract from my notes:
As reported by EDSM minor factions-
1 Pilots Federation Local Branch -PF Democracy 0 controlled stations 0 controlled systems.
2 Pilots’ Federation Administration - PF Corporate 5 systems 7 stations Otegine/Aldrich, Matet/Coelho, Dromi/Mawson+Dimery+Aitkins, Sharur/Archias, Orna/ Fuzong, however all these systems need Pilot’s Federation permit-newbies area!! Recently implemented so unlikely to be relevant.
3 Pilots’ Federation Local Branch - PF Democracy 0 stations 0 systems - in ShinDez
4 PilotsFederation - no detail! -rank via rescue missions or Thargoid kills 0 stations 0 systems
5 The Pilots Federation - Independent Democracy 0 stations 0 systems Shinrarta Dezhra

The different (original, now corrected!) spelling discrepancies were noticed in the Tourist Beacons in Shin Dez. Perhaps this beacon set of clues with different spellings is really why they are located in Shin Dez which you have to be Elite to enter? (I.e. “personal journey”)
We know from Elite Premonition that TDW in Shin Dez are “at the outer rim”.

Rochester raised a bug report on these different spellings & the response (later deleted!!) indicated that all spellings were correct so there must be a reason. Clearly this is an obfuscation on the basis that most people would assume this was a single faction and put the differences down to bad spelling on FD’s part (which has always struck me as a bit strange, especially since MB was an author and Exec Producer who should have enforced good spellchecking practice). I suspect we need to ally with all these variants to trigger some event. Given that Davanix allied with one faction by combat bonds in a CG, possibly we should be investigating CGs ore closely? If one is by CG combat, one by anti-xeno/rescues, perhaps other PF factions are related to exploration & trade CG?

Shinrarta PF Tourist Beacons - original spelling (now corrected!)

0244/Pilots’ Federation Origins/The Pilots’ Federation has existed for a very long time. It was founded in 2805 during the great surge of private ownership of small starships enabled by the hugely competitive modular ship designs made available during the previous decades. / It was founded as much as a way of agreeing prices for ship parts en masse (where member benefit from group discounts), but soon becane much more, providing a system where trusted pilots could share route information and protect each other from a new scourge - also enabled ny the proliferation of small starships - of interstellar piracy. Over the years an unofficial tally of pirate kills amongst some members began as 'bragging rights' but soon members started showing their kills on their online IDs, and before long those without such a rating were referred to as 'Harmless' - and by implication not so desirable to provide cover on a route known for pirate attacks. / Gradually, the Pilots Federation grew to encompass a great many pilot-owners and their ships. It also provided an element of respectability as the itinerant nature of their lifestyles had started to bring suspicion amongst planet-siders - where the lack of accountability of space farers brought about by their ability to simply move on to a different system before the law caught up with them gave them a bit of a reputation as cowboys or as thieves in certain places. The Pilots Federation would not tolerate dishonourable behaviour among its members, and so such members would wear the PF's logo with pride - earning them a little respect in their dealings, and an antidote to the cowboy image.

0245/The Elite/In 3100 the Pilots Federation began issuing modified version of its 'wings' badge that included the pilot's rating written across it in capitals, and made official the names of these ratings, starting with 'Harmless, then 'Mostly Harmless', all the way to 'Elite'. The most coveted was the 'Elite' badge, and the first of these was awarded to Commander Peter Jameson, who wore it on the rear of his Cobra MkIII for the rest of his life. / Before long this small and highly respected group of pilots with these coveted badges became known as 'The Elite'. They received all sorts of offers - both commercial and personal - (including offer of marriage!). The commercial side became valuable - whether it was transporting royalty or taking unknown items 'no questions asked'. The group was considered utterly trustworty, with the confidentiality assured, and its members took this very seriously.

0246/The Elite Federation of Pilots/As their reputation spread, the small group became overwhelmed. There was no way they could satisfy anything like all the demands on them, so the formed 'The Elite Federation of Pilots'. This was a sub-group of the Pilots Federation and it ran its own system to exchange offers between its members. It was quite secretive, and hugely respected, and there was a high demand for their services. Their main problem was how few 'Elite' pilots there were. Many pilots would get rich and retire long before they attained the coveted 'Elite' status; the fundamental problem was that the rating was a kill count. Wise members of the group realised that, in fact, they were no better pilots than some younger pilots with much lower ratings - they had just been doing it for longer - though others outside the group didn't see it like that. They wanted the cachet of employing an 'Elite' pilot. They were also aware that the pirates were getting better. They were better organised than in the early days, and better equipped. / It is rumoured they run secret bases and have their own technologies, but what is known for certain is they are highly respected, and get generous discounts throughout human space. In practice the aura of secrecy proved a great strength. The EFP now has representatives throughout human space and beyond, and it is an organisation to which every pilot aspires to be a member.

0247/Pilots’ Federation Secrecy/The Pilots’ Federation in many ways is a secretive organisation. This in part reinforces its status of neutrality. It exists to support pilots, not nationalities or political factions. Over the years this has led to its acceptance (albeit grudging in some cases) in practically all human domain. / Despite its ubiquitous presence it has very little direct dealings with the public. Even member pilots tend to interact via the networked rankings and bounties system. The prime exception to this is registration. A pilot has to register in person for their PF license. Registration is performent at offices throughout human habitted space. / The PF represents the nearest thing to law in uncontrolled and ungoverned space. Their existence provides a safely net for human expansion in space beyond the major factions. / The Elite Federation of Pilots (EFP) continues as a select and extremely secretive group within the larger organisation.

0248/Pilots’ Federation Interests/The Pilots Federation as an organisation controls a vast financial empire. This is not public knowledge, although the major intelligence services are aware of the fact. However for the most part these financial resources are used to improve safety for pilots and for funding bounties used to improve safety for pilots and for funding bounties where local authorities do not (or in uncontrolled space), some governments have been known to take advantage of this. / The Pilots Federation also takes a private interest in the independent venture with new colonies, this will typically be masked by front companies. In only one known case has the PF taken control of a world or system - see the Founders' World section below. / As well as providing fund for bounties it also receives transaction fees for completed bounties that are processed through the PF bounty system - and in many cases retains unclaimed bounties where, for whatever reason, the pilot who has earned it doesn't claim it. / By far the most significant contribution to the PF's finances is the near monopoly it has for the embedded ship and station systems.

0249/Pilots’ Federation's Near Monopoly/Historically the Pilots’ Federation has been a trusted soure of information for pilots. As humanity expanded into space that need for informatiuon continued to grow. / Before 3100 they provided data for many ship and station manufacturers. After 3100 in an understated, but effective campaign of acqusitions and mergers they came the dominant provider of this data as well as the hardware and software solutions serving that data. / From star chart data, ship data and bounty management systems the Pilots Federation expanded their data sources to include markets, newsfeeds and communication systems. / In 3300 the Pilots Federation's GalNet system has a near monopoly on all shipboard and station embedded systems. The systems are fitted as standard on nearly all independent ships and even some militaries. It's a testament to the trusted nature of the PF that his monopoly has occured with the little resistance bar some back room negotiations.

0250/Pilots’ Federation's Influence/Officially, the Pilots Federation is apolitical: as an organisation it does not interfere with the internal workings of systems or factions. However this official stance is a misnomer. The PF wields considerable power through its web of political contacts as well as the application of the bounty system and control of the ship and station embedded systems. / It also uses a lot of soft power by providing pilot safety support throughout human space. / There are also known cliques within the PF (The Dark Wheel is probably the most famous) that have their own agendas. Officially these are discouraged, but in an organisation so large they are tolerated as long as they don't overstep the mark.

0251/Pilot’s Federation's Secrecy/Much of what the Pilots Federation does revolves around secrecy; and this has many layers. Within the Pilots Federation, the Elite Federation of Pilots is even more mysterious and secretive, and at the centre of that is the elusive 'Founders World'. / It is the only system directly controlled by the EFP, and even its location is closely guarded. The secrecy is maintained by the EFP using 'misinformation' - there are a great many rumours of its rough location - and they all contradict each other. Only a select few - the members of the EFP - know the truth. / The system is governed by the EFP and it is here that the organisation's headquarters is based. / EFP members are allowed to retire here in relative anonymity.

Edit
I think various Galnet posts and TBs originally used those different spellings to hint at the gameplay needed:
So: Ps_F/ P’s_F/ Ps’_F/ PsF/ T_Ps_F
1. Ps_F: # markets traded, Anti-piracy missions.
2. P’s_F: BH enemies of the Pilot’s Federation-sponsored CG/BH/Assassination?
3. Ps’_FLB: Missions for SD faction YEP
4. PsF: Kill Thargoids or rescue from damaged stations YEP
5. T_Ps_F: refuel stranded pilots? sponsored CG
But since the spelling differences have been correct in-game I suspect this is possibly no longer valid.
Unless DB actually follows my posts and had the spellings corrected because I was getting too near the mark/too vocal about this hidden storyline? 🤔
It might be instructive to hear if people are still getting the various allied messages for killing Thargoids etc. It's also possible that this was OBE when PF became a superpower.
 
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I think I prove the important story is Sun Dragon 🐉.

No one CMDR was supposed to have been this powerful.

Buckle up, The Dark Wheel has been found. Nothing good will come of this development. My warning that we don't actually want to find them has come to pass.

Brooks Estate is there with a clever misspelling to hide the connection. Tau Ceti has Ortiz Moreno City. Sol has Mars High amongst others.

You asked for this. I warned you all years ago that you should be careful about what you wish for. Sometimes those come true. SWARM is in Pi-Fang (yes, NPC faction) and I am not sure you want to know the implications. Let's just say when Braben said hard, dystopian science fiction he didn't exactly kid. As a preview of coming attractions, read up on the lyrics of Electric Wizard which has a song "Ivixor B" which is cryptic reference to Alien World: A Complete Illustrated Guide. Enjoy the nightmares.

I'll never see the world behind the stargates.

Source: https://youtu.be/9fIeZCenDx4?si=nMH_ty8AhIekymeJ


1000020813.jpg
 
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I too have seen raxxla related themes seep into the “real” world.

from frontiers other games - to themes and images from tv shows which im sure used the same graphics ( not just raxxla logo but also parts from UA) To themes in books as well… now music…

The simulation is slipping
 
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Sure. I don't know what I'm looking for out here so someone who wasn't looking for it might not recognise it either. But that doesn't give me any hints towards what I should be looking for either...
i'm hoping the only legit "hints" needed are within the CODEX and based strictly in-the-game. Sorry but i just find it very hard to believe some Developer ( or Developers ) consciously created such a tantalizingly mysterious carrot-on-a-stick for gamers to chase going on nearly 10 YEARS, only to have it require outside references ( books or whatever) to the point of near college level of external reading & homework.

imho, everything we need to find RAXXLA is buried ( or surfaced ) within the game itself. However, what i am wrestling with is: Do you need to be in the 'Horizons' version of EliteD to find RAXXLA? Or can it also be found in the 'Odyssey' version? Because if it's only in the 'Horizons' version , then someone like me who purchsed the Steam/Odyssey ( entire game ) version is totally out-of-luck, no? Since i have no idea how---or if---my game client can even access the 'Horizons' version. And even if i can , how do i know which version to be in for RAXXLA pursuit?
True in the case of a random system. I'm poking around in and near one of the most well-explored nebulae in the game that's been a waypoint of multiple organised expeditions. Every system here has been repeatedly scanned and many of them have full sets of first mapped and first footfall tags too. If there's something here, it's either hidden in such a way that normal exploration tools won't find it, or it's in plain sight in such a way that normal exploration tools won't highlight it.
"if one has the eyes to see it" ---- What if that means a player needs to use a certain in-game mechanic, before the ability to "see" RAXXLA ( or any clues therein ) is triggered within the client code? Or maybe some sequence of scans triggers something SERVER side? I'm just trying to think here in terms of standard confines & limitations of typical video-game MMO coding & functionality.
Good point.
i'm guessing you either ignored or missed my entire post reply to you earlier--> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10429276

If so, np i'll stop replying/quoting you so you won't get any more notification pings. ( sorry about that ! )
I have read Sun Dragons and Tau Ceti. I cannot find any direct reference (to date).

So if Legacy is the correct source, I believe the codex is the key, and that it’s multi layered, so it’s open to debate.
i agree the CODEX is indeed the key but i also think it can be a quagmire. And i really hope the latter wasn't the true 'FDev' intention :(
There's lots of "Dark Wheel" factions, maybe hundreds of them (the player factions are likely candidates for this too). I still maintain that we (players seeking out mystery) are supposed to be the "Real" Dark Wheel at this point (or factions thereof),
So yesterday, i achieved 'Ally' status with that aforementioned 'The Dark Wheel' faction i had found ( thinking it was some amazing discovery, before i had read Ian Doncaster's post i quoted ) and so now i'm wondering if this new status i achieved thru in-game missions has somehow triggered a layer of code for my character.

Or....is it just as insignificant as getting allied with any of the 9874325987345340989534 random factions i've encountered at nearly every station or settlement?

Time will tell. ( either way i certainly had fun running the various types of missions )
The E/F missions disappeared in 2016. They were bugged, but they could have been fixed, so the fact that they were instead totally withdrawn suggests to me that either their purpose was OBE, or that they were too successful. This might be supported by the lack of FD clarification over their disappearance-they do not comment on anything related to Raxxla.
They don't seem to comment on much of anything lol. Probably too busy coding & such. ( plus, these forums are usually the worst place for Devs/Coders to frequent )

Would be pretty neat ( and inspiring ) though to see just ONE official post in this thread from 'FDev' . No need for any words even. Just a simple acknowledgement emoji or cryptic symbol would go a long way imo.
So why were those missions withdrawn? Could be that FD decided on commercial grounds to emphasise the Thargoid storyline and concentrated effort so something had to go...
i asked that very question in my earlier previous page post--> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10429034 ...but no one seemed to answer it. Of course, i suppose it's also an unanswerable question lol ( at least by us ) .

Yesterday, after i had finish getting 'Ally' status with "The Dark Wheel" faction , i was meeting one of my last 'bubble' Engineers who wanted me to bring 'Lavian Brandy' and so i was just exploring a nearby system ( like the 5-month-newb that i am :) ) and i stumbled upon the 'LAVE' system. Obviously, i was wondering about the whole "Lave" as in "Lavian" connection and so i asked a pilot buddy ( vet ) and he said "yeah that's where you buy the Brandy from" . Okay cool so my hunch was correct! ( albeit elementary obvious lol )

So anyways, as i'm delivering the Brandy ( 3 trips ) i'm also of course exploring & scanning the system & planets & such , etc. And i then of course stumbled upon----you guessed it----the 'LAVE 2' permit locked planet/plane. And long story short , many hours later, nothing i was doing ( missions, stations, landings, etc. ) was working. Just couldn't figure out where/why the game wasn't letting me get into that 'LAVE 2' area , even though i was already allied with local factions AND had already unlocked the Didi Vatermann engineer from Lavian Brandy delivery. So........

... i then do a forum search and unfortunately find this---> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/lave-2-is-raxxla-but-frontier-permit-locked-it.548712/

Bummer. However, maybe it's part of 'FDev' master plan, once Thargoid chapter is soon complete? Maybe then all these "abandoned" contents/permits will finally be utilized as the penultimate "endgame" before this current incarnation of Elite Dangerous is retired? And just maybe PowerPlay 2.0 is the beginning of the long end?
 
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imho, everything we need to find RAXXLA is buried ( or surfaced ) within the game itself. However, what i am wrestling with is: Do you need to be in the 'Horizons' version of EliteD to find RAXXLA? Or can it also be found in the 'Odyssey' version? Because if it's only in the 'Horizons' version , then someone like me who purchsed the Steam/Odyssey ( entire game ) version is totally out-of-luck, no? Since i have no idea how---or if---my game client can even access the 'Horizons' version. And even if i can , how do i know which version to be in for RAXXLA pursuit?
The Odyssey license should let you access all three of Odyssey Live, Horizons Live and Horizons Legacy (though the latter will require an extra download). I wouldn't expect it to make any difference which one you're using, though - the possibility of bugs preventing its discovery being present in one version but not another aside - since it was claimed to be in game before any of those expansions it's presumably also something which can be found without visiting any planet surfaces at all.

"if one has the eyes to see it" ---- What if that means a player needs to use a certain in-game mechanic, before the ability to "see" RAXXLA ( or any clues therein ) is triggered within the client code? Or maybe some sequence of scans triggers something SERVER side? I'm just trying to think here in terms of standard confines & limitations of typical video-game MMO coding & functionality.
Or more straightforwardly just a hint to look at things because they might contain clues.

e.g. the apparently random string of letters and numbers on a standard cargo canister might be a clue (or, of course, it might not; most things probably are just the art team trying to make things look more interesting) but either way most players probably handle thousands of them without taking a close look at any of them

Bummer. However, maybe it's part of 'FDev' master plan, once Thargoid chapter is soon complete? Maybe then all these "abandoned" contents/permits will finally be utilized as the penultimate "endgame" before this current incarnation of Elite Dangerous is retired? And just maybe PowerPlay 2.0 is the beginning of the long end?
Given the current pace of two permits per decade, I think that gives us several centuries to find Raxxla. I don't see any evidence that Frontier intends to retire ED any time soon.

I wouldn't give much credence to that specific claim about Lave 2, though. Anyone can claim to have totally found Raxxla but then mysteriously be unable to provide any actual evidence; they weren't the first and won't be the last. My personal silly theory - it's even supported by the Codex, but I posted it originally before then, so it must be true - is that the body Ra 10 a is Raxxla. The evidence? Raxxla is called Raxxla - that's Ra X (XL) a. The tenth planet in the "Ra" system (X) is also the largest (eXtra Large), so its 'a' moon is Raxxla.




Incidentally, the thread I posted that in contains a year-earlier-than-previously-proven reference - April 2018 - to the "a player has been in the system" rumour. Though their version says that the player didn't even honk the system. Still, a vague recollection is an improvement on "someone said this and then somehow no-one mentioned it again for two years" for trying to figure out how that got started.
 
This lines up nicely with the regional hubs that are the Nostrum Starports - on of which is in Tau Ceti (Ortiz Moreno City). You've probably heard me call them 🌴 stations. Of note, there is Brooks Estate in Pi-Fang that is another. I am not sure if the spelling is altered to hide the connection. That, too, is one of the special starports.
Didn't a Nostrum starport explode in Tau Ceti killing thousands?

O7
 
I think it's worth everyone considering that - as far as we know - the Dark Wheel (any faction that we know of) had not found Raxxla as of the late 3200's. In fact, had so spectacularly failed to find Raxxla that it caused a rift in the faction controlled by the Ryder family.

I take the 'toast' in the Codex to be word-of-god regarding what the Dark Wheel know about Raxxla, I have assumed (but there's no info either way) that the 'toast' contains all the info the Dark Wheel knew historically about Raxxla, and that it forms the basis of "the Quest" as undertaken by the early Dark Wheel.

Obviously (anyone that's read my thread) knows I'm certain that The Toast of the Dark Wheel points to the centre of the Galaxy and the Landscape Signal.

Before FSD exploration was incredibly hard, took a long time, and was dangerous. The Dynasty missions were incredibly well funded missions pushing deeper into the galaxy than any/most had ever gone, real final frontier stuff. None of these missions travelled much further than half the distance needed to reach the centre of the galaxy - and they were operating at the very peak of pre-FSD tech (circa 3270s). Some of the missions apparently did return, but many of them were lost along the way.

Prior to that we know now of Azimuth/Pharmasapien missions using Quirium drives circa 3110 that also went into the galaxy to find alien stuff - but they didn't even travel more than about 10% of the distance needed to reach the centre of the galaxy - and again, they were immensely well funded corporate missions.

Imagine (in the narrative of the game), detecting a signal or hearing a psychic pull or whatever way it manifests to somewhere in the bulk of the Milky way, knowing that something is out there in that direction, but lacking the ability to figure out where. If you consider the Landscape Signal to be the in-game representation of that, consider that it took a lot of people a long time using FSD to triangulate the soure of the signal by creating a very wide baseline across the galaxy (read about it on the thread, and download the report they made, it's excellent) - that simply was almost impossible before FSD, certainly not by a single person, even a small well-funded group would have trouble with that.

Edit: Weird posting issue: I also would mention the Dredger Clans. We know they travel outside the bubble and have developed the technology to maintain their ships for generations. We have some evidence to suggest some of them have travelled quite far. I personally think the Scriveners Clan are a candidate for Raxxla-discoverers too since they seek knowledge, and the logo on their ship is a hexagram.

But... here's the complex part. In the lore we know that Omphalos Infotech Universal Infotech, which became Universal Cartographics, who controls and deploys Galmap and the Discovery Scanner system on PF ships, collected data from FTL probes to create Galmap. Therefore, if anyone is hiding Raxxla, it's them. It's possible that the people that run UC are some old part of the Dark Wheel too...
 
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I take the 'toast' in the Codex to be word-of-god regarding what the Dark Wheel know about Raxxla, I have assumed (but there's no info either way) that the 'toast' contains all the info the Dark Wheel knew historically about Raxxla, and that it forms the basis of "the Quest" as undertaken by the early Dark Wheel.
I've been considering the interpretation of "to" in the toast lately. The obvious one of course is "in honour of". But what if it means "towards" (as in "to the batmobile"). Could it be a map? You go to the jewel, and then from there you go to the whisperer (which maybe isn't obvious as that from anywhere else), and so on. That would at least be a multi-stage puzzle which gave you some hint that you were on the right lines as you went along, especially after you'd got a few of them right.

This one came to mind while poking around NGC 7822. I'd followed the arrow here, and then noticed ...
crescent.jpg

... this mysterious hole in the galactic plane that I was sure wasn't there before. It's not Raxxla, it's just the Crescent Nebula, viewed from a particularly fortunate combination of distance and direction, but maybe the toast is a series of clues to be followed in that way.
(Nebula visibility and even appearance has changed enough times since the game's original release that they are probably not the waypoints themselves, though. NGC 7822 is a tempting but unconvincing candidate for the "jewel" while the Crescent Nebula doesn't look like a wanderer or siren and anyway the deepest void is in the other direction. I'm not claiming this as the actual start of that path, if that's what it is)
 
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