General / Off-Topic The safest place

[Stigbob]

Fair enough. It’s been over a year now, how long do you suggest we carry on the things as they are now?

Its all very well some preaching about how this would be all over if everyone on the planet just isolated for 3 weeks but the world isn’t going to do that, so that kind of idealistic talk just isn’t going to cut it.

We wait and see what happens with the next inevitable outbreak when we continue to open up having vaccinated the vulnerable, keyworkers and even moved down the priority list to forty year olds.

If we get another splurge but the hospitals don't get battered and it's conspiracy idiots and middle aged distancing breakers getting ill but not to the same extent in the same deadly way we are on track to return to normalcy except with sore hands from all the sanitizer and washing. It'll also accelerate vaccination uptake as it'll demonstrate it works even to the really dim.

So probably a good time to invest in hand moisturizer companies and maybe plan a staycation, foreign travels still going to be knackered for a while.

 

[Synkreto]

Fair enough. It’s been over a year now, how long do you suggest we carry on the things as they are now?

Its all very well some preaching about how this would be all over if everyone on the planet just isolated for 3 weeks but the world isn’t going to do that, so that kind of idealistic talk just isn’t going to cut it.

Do you have ANY doubt what would happen in countries like yours, mine if we simply let it go ?

Any doubt at all ?

To be fully honest, I am really tired of people going "bah, idealistic talk" when containing the Virus is mentioned .

At the moment, there.is.no.other.way ! Vaccinations are NOT:FAST:ENOUGH ! And even if, we can not ease up on doing our best to suppress the Virus while the pandemic is accelerating . This does not change with increasing vaccination rates .

In my opinion, it is up to the people who OPPOSE the Idea of containing the Virus to save masses of people from dieing to justify THEIR stance ..

What do YOU think should happen ? AND : how are you going to justify the fallout if it turns out your ideas cost a lot of people their lives ?

I am waiting...

 

[Synkreto]

In Berlin for almost three weeks, and also in four other federal states of the country an antigen test is mandatory to enter non-essential stores.

As a result, frequentation in so-called non-essential stores continues to fall. Which is not good news, as some have already gone bankrupt.

Björn Fromm, the president of the Berlin-Brandenburg merchants federation, complains about this false good idea:

"We cannot continue. It scares customers away. You have to leave the shops open with rules of hygiene, wearing a mask, and that will be enough.

Otherwise, even more stores will go out of business, " he says.

View attachment 221096

If you want to know about stuff in Germany, why not ask me instead of reading some media ?

A few weeks ago, a Town called Tübingen, which had really good numbers in terms of incidence, started a "model project" to se whether and how "carefull opening up" would work . Mandatory quicktesting, shops etc open etc.

It.does.not.work . You can not use quick-/selftests to passport people for entry into shops, restaurants etc . Thats is just NOT how that works . Even though, Tübingen got SWARMED by people from surrounding regions OH NOES; WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT???, which, believe it or not, is a pretty bad thing during a pandemic .

Their incidence went through the roof within 10 days .

But you want to know the real kicker ? Shopowners and the such complain . They do not have enough business, too many people do NOT come shopping because duh Pandemic . And too many are simply not stupid enough to think "Hey, quicktest negative, I am safe!" . A LOT of people ( my guess =around 70% in Germany ) have a pretty good Idea about reality re pandemic, tests etc .

As long as you have an effective reproduction of over 1 in a given area, anything that is NOT "deny the virus access to any hosts" is simply stupid . Even IF you have low incidence/reproduction number, by now literally everyone who kept themselves somewhat informed during these past 14 months knows : you do not play with this Beast . You do not tease it . You do not give it ANY Chance .

Germany is by now in a Situation where we are pretty close to HealthCare collapsing btw . Almost every day, ICUs report being full . Our System is being filled up from top to bottom ( thats how it works ) . Non CoVID19 patients as well as COVID19 patients are dieing here because there is simply no way to get them adequate care in time in some areas . Entire hospitals are being shut ( not taking in new patients ) 'cos of overload . ICUs deregsiter themselves ( report full) from national system cos of overload .

I am talking about "one of the best healthcare systems in the world" in terms of capacity,technology, training etc.

 

[sewerratuk]

Do you have ANY doubt what would happen in countries like yours, mine if we simply let it go ?

Any doubt at all ?

To be fully honest, I am really tired of people going "bah, idealistic talk" when containing the Virus is mentioned .

At the moment, there.is.no.other.way ! Vaccinations are NOT:FAST:ENOUGH ! And even if, we can not ease up on doing our best to suppress the Virus while the pandemic is accelerating . This does not change with increasing vaccination rates .

In my opinion, it is up to the people who OPPOSE the Idea of containing the Virus to save masses of people from dieing to justify THEIR stance ..

What do YOU think should happen ? AND : how are you going to justify the fallout if it turns out your ideas cost a lot of people their lives ?

I am waiting...

I’m going to carry doing what I have been doing all the way through this and I have no objections if others want to carry on staying at home.
I will continue to object if those that want to stay at home keep trying to force me too.

 

[Synkreto]

I’m going to carry doing what I have been doing all the way through this and I have no objections if others want to carry on staying at home.
I will continue to object if those that want to stay at home keep trying to force me too.

Are you really thinking ANYONE WANTS to stay at home ? Have you ever thought beyond yourself during these past 14 months ?

Btw., you have not really answered my question(s) . Which was what I expected .

 

[sewerratuk]

Are you really thinking ANYONE WANTS to stay at home ? Have you ever thought beyond yourself during these past 14 months ?

Btw., you have not really answered my question(s) . Which was what I expected .

I’m still going out working, if I didn’t many people would not have the most basic of essentials to carry on living. Think of the millions that would die if people working in my industry decided we should all stay at home.

Regards to your question, well the vaccine has a pretty good roll out in the U.K. atm so people are coming out to play rather than staying home to see if it actually works or not. That’s my view of the way forward and if people die because of it then my conscience will still be clean thanks

 

[Stigbob]

I’m going to carry doing what I have been doing all the way through this and I have no objections if others want to carry on staying at home.
I will continue to object if those that want to stay at home keep trying to force me too.

I don't think anyone's arguing that keyworkers like yourself should stay at home all the time. As long as you do the social distancing mask thing whilst working.

Don't make special trips to the outside to lick people and objects at random and everything tickety boo I should think.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

My second shot has been scheduled. Same location. It's on a Friday, so I will have the weekend off to monitor.

Restrictions are beginning to relax. Many are simply weary of the pandemic. It's the perfect recipe for another wave.

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

Don't make special trips to the outside to lick people and objects at random and everything tickety boo I should think.

But that advice is to everyone!
If it was all ok with that, then why have we furloughed and had multiple lockdowns?
You’re right of course, that this should help, but the uncomfortable feeling I get is the lack of support for certain sectors.
Bus drivers, shelf stockers and all the essential workers have been expected to face the dangers whilst others are recompensed for staying at home.
Of course there’s also sectors that have had little to no support and haven’t been able to work.
There have for sure been some people and companies that have done very nicely thank you very much during covid through gov support or increased income and I think covid has actually widened the gap between the rich and poor, it’s certainly not an ‘equal’ virus to all society.

As we have seen, most of our leaders are struggling with how to balance the crippling economics of covid with the potential collapse of health care and public opinion; in the uk, it looks like we’re aiming to get the deaths low enough that the hospitals don’t crumble and public opinion accepts the death level. Who knows though, it’s looking likely that we’ll continue to require differing levels of restrictions for some time.
@sewerratuk , my main income livelihood has ceased to exist since covid, and due to my previous timing of changing from ltd to self-employed status has left me in the lurch for gov support.
I’ve spent most of my savings and done all sorts of bits and pieces of work over this duration to pay the mortgage and bills, and I would much rather not be stuck at home. Not everyone else is lapping up the benefits whilst the essential workers are put in danger!
Maybe the boat has sailed on trying to eliminate the virus, but simply opening back up looks likely to get us back into lockdown again and again.
Mostly just reinforces the importance of counting your blessings, enjoying time with people you love and being kind to one another.
I suspect there is a real chance of social unrest, I wonder what it’ll take for Brazilians to take action?
Is there already? Our media is mostly non independent and our gov is busy trying to change the laws on protest - I’m pretty sure plenty of tax payers money has been spent on modeling, what do they suspect?

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Regards international travel:
We currently have no international travel allowed but they've released a list of 39 red list countries on friday where hotel quarantine is to be enforced.
Most notably, there are some countries not on the list including:
USA, Canada, India and all European countries.
No date as yet but this wasn't even on the table so could be any time.
Also, we have a mask shortage and the last 3 times, over 2 weeks i have gone to the shop, there have been ppl without masks...from kids to 50+ who should know better..
Things are slipping it seems and with the other things going on, things could go very wrong, very quickly. Cases rose in Derry after 5 days of unrest so the potential for a resurgence is there.
Non-essential shopping and outdoor pubs open 30th April which were both likely to have caused the last wave. 825k first dose, 200k second and vax shotage on top...total pop- 1.9m
Lockdown has stopped case spikes but protests are planned from Monday over the NIP.
Fun times, or not.

 

[sewerratuk]

But that advice is to everyone!
If it was all ok with that, then why have we furloughed and had multiple lockdowns?
You’re right of course, that this should help, but the uncomfortable feeling I get is the lack of support for certain sectors.
Bus drivers, shelf stockers and all the essential workers have been expected to face the dangers whilst others are recompensed for staying at home.
Of course there’s also sectors that have had little to no support and haven’t been able to work.
There have for sure been some people and companies that have done very nicely thank you very much during covid through gov support or increased income and I think covid has actually widened the gap between the rich and poor, it’s certainly not an ‘equal’ virus to all society.

As we have seen, most of our leaders are struggling with how to balance the crippling economics of covid with the potential collapse of health care and public opinion; in the uk, it looks like we’re aiming to get the deaths low enough that the hospitals don’t crumble and public opinion accepts the death level. Who knows though, it’s looking likely that we’ll continue to require differing levels of restrictions for some time.
@sewerratuk , my main income livelihood has ceased to exist since covid, and due to my previous timing of changing from ltd to self-employed status has left me in the lurch for gov support.
I’ve spent most of my savings and done all sorts of bits and pieces of work over this duration to pay the mortgage and bills, and I would much rather not be stuck at home. Not everyone else is lapping up the benefits whilst the essential workers are put in danger!
Maybe the boat has sailed on trying to eliminate the virus, but simply opening back up looks likely to get us back into lockdown again and again.
Mostly just reinforces the importance of counting your blessings, enjoying time with people you love and being kind to one another.
I suspect there is a real chance of social unrest, I wonder what it’ll take for Brazilians to take action?
Is there already? Our media is mostly non independent and our gov is busy trying to change the laws on protest - I’m pretty sure plenty of tax payers money has been spent on modeling, what do they suspect?

I think I may have been a little misunderstood. I don’t think everyone is happy to be at home (although some are)

I feel for you, I have friends in the same boat who have now just been allowed to start earning again and they won’t be too happy if the advocates of everyone staying home get their way again. Especially when everyone has been told how great the vaccine is and that it’s the way out of this situation

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

I feel for you, I have friends in the same boat who have now just been allowed to start earning again and they won’t be too happy if the advocates of everyone staying home get their way again. Especially when everyone has been told how great the vaccine is and that it’s the way out of this situation

Cheers but I’m not complaining - I have a roof and a gf and enough means not to be too desperate!
But although I’d rather not have restrictions which affect my livelihood, I’d still rather we followed the best science and data with the wellbeing of the people foremost as opposed to the cronyism and faux support of an economy which has neither the science nor the people’s interests at heart.

 

[Stigbob]

But that advice is to everyone!
If it was all ok with that, then why have we furloughed and had multiple lockdowns?
You’re right of course, that this should help, but the uncomfortable feeling I get is the lack of support for certain sectors.
Bus drivers, shelf stockers and all the essential workers have been expected to face the dangers whilst others are recompensed for staying at home.
Of course there’s also sectors that have had little to no support and haven’t been able to work.
There have for sure been some people and companies that have done very nicely thank you very much during covid through gov support or increased income and I think covid has actually widened the gap between the rich and poor, it’s certainly not an ‘equal’ virus to all society.

As we have seen, most of our leaders are struggling with how to balance the crippling economics of covid with the potential collapse of health care and public opinion; in the uk, it looks like we’re aiming to get the deaths low enough that the hospitals don’t crumble and public opinion accepts the death level. Who knows though, it’s looking likely that we’ll continue to require differing levels of restrictions for some time.
@sewerratuk , my main income livelihood has ceased to exist since covid, and due to my previous timing of changing from ltd to self-employed status has left me in the lurch for gov support.
I’ve spent most of my savings and done all sorts of bits and pieces of work over this duration to pay the mortgage and bills, and I would much rather not be stuck at home. Not everyone else is lapping up the benefits whilst the essential workers are put in danger!

I got laid off a couple of weeks pre-furlough. I managed to sort out an alternative I prefer though, so I'm one of the lucky ones.

Maybe the boat has sailed on trying to eliminate the virus, but simply opening back up looks likely to get us back into lockdown again and again.

We stand a chance of doing it here but we are a pro-vaccine nation the chances of eliminating it worldwide are zero currently too many objections. I suppose when countries with high vaccination rates do better at recovery it could tip the balance but verifiable facts don't change conspiratorial or religious belief, they push the true believers further away from reality. It would take years possibly generations to change that.

As for more lockdowns it depends how the casualty rate is, with the vulnerable, key workers and middle aged and up vaccinated we might have cracked it already.

Mostly just reinforces the importance of counting your blessings, enjoying time with people you love and being kind to one another.
I suspect there is a real chance of social unrest, I wonder what it’ll take for Brazilians to take action?
Is there already? Our media is mostly non independent and our gov is busy trying to change the laws on protest - I’m pretty sure plenty of tax payers money has been spent on modeling, what do they suspect?

Most people know someone who's been really ill or worse by this stage so the majority of us understand the need for it. I can't really see widespread unrest happening while we are successfully opening up from stricter lockdowns in the UK. New lockdowns could be a flashpoint but given how well we've done with vaccination things are probably going to continue improving.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Won't be long before the lockdown vs vax test.
Just saying.
They have not given enough time for the vaccinations...all is a rush now.
It didn't work the last time...worst case is many will die because of governmental impatience. The science has been silenced so it is all on the politicans now.
We will see...

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Clot related death locally after vaccine:

SWRHA to give report to family of man who died after receiving vaccine | Loop Trinidad & Tobago

The South West Regional Health Authority (SWRHA) will meet with the family of the man who developed a blood clot and paralysis after being administered the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine. The 60-year-old retiree passed away on Thursday night, eight

www.looptt.com

Atypical characteristics: male over 60
We need to do a heparin antibody test to see if the case was really vaccine related. Preliminary report says not related.

Some relatives have become afraid and don't want to go for the vaccine now.

---

Report out of Brazil:

Watching so many patients suffer and die alone at her Rio de Janeiro hospital impelled Nurse Lidiane Melo to take desperate measures.

In the early days of the pandemic, as sufferers were calling out for comfort that she was too busy to provide, Melo filled two rubber gloves with warm water, knotted them shut, and sandwiched them around a patient's hand to simulate a loving touch.

Some have christened the practice the "hand of God," and it is now the searing image of a nation roiled by a medical emergency with no end in sight.

We have constant illegal traffic by boat from the Latin American mainland, and it's a sure bet that P1 from Brazil is eventually coming here. Infection rate is showing some bad signs. Is it already here?

Looks like the beginning of a steep surge to me.

Can't visit the father anymore: he's in isolation. Complaining he doesn't like the food. Told him to lump it and stay put for now.

Spoiler: Dad's condition

He's had confusion, slurred speech and "loss of control" after his left carotid developed a thrombus ejecting clots up to brain last week.
Heard the noise in the artery at home with a scope, so we gave him antiplatelet drugs, water and salt, and worked on his NAD level.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6885080/ <- new studies suggest that damage after a stroke is reduced by fixing mitochondria with NAD, SIRT 3 and restoring flow.
Can't get those fancy drugs here, so I used the parsley for apigenin to block CD38, olive oil to activate SIRT3 with oleic acid, flaxseed powder to inhibit the enzyme sequence that makes arachidonic acid, and piles of greens to get nitrates to run his NO levels up, to dilate the cerebral vascular bed. A biochemical salad, 4 times a day. Kept him at home and gambled.

He has complete recovery. Did it work? No way to prove it.
But he no longer has me available. He's got a more conventional doctor now. I'm more than worried that the stroke reoccurs, and they send him to public hospital.

 

[Synkreto]

I think I may have been a little misunderstood. I don’t think everyone is happy to be at home (although some are)

I feel for you, I have friends in the same boat who have now just been allowed to start earning again and they won’t be too happy if the advocates of everyone staying home get their way again. Especially when everyone has been told how great the vaccine is and that it’s the way out of this situation

Idk, do you think I am anyhow benefitting from the Situation ? Having to pay rent, health insurance, payments for my daughter and some other things puts me down over 1k Euro a month, and for months by now, I have simply increased pesonal debt ( family/friends ) . I am not eligible for any governemntal support, it was impossible for me to find any paid work savings are mostly gone .

Does that change anything ? Did or do you think I am advocating for max possible containment of the virus because I am not personally affected, or even profiteering ?

 

[Arry]

Clot related death locally after vaccine:

SWRHA to give report to family of man who died after receiving vaccine | Loop Trinidad & Tobago

The South West Regional Health Authority (SWRHA) will meet with the family of the man who developed a blood clot and paralysis after being administered the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine. The 60-year-old retiree passed away on Thursday night, eight

www.looptt.com

Atypical characteristics: male over 60
We need to do a heparin antibody test to see if the case was really vaccine related. Preliminary report says not related.

Some relatives have become afraid and don't want to go for the vaccine now.

---

Report out of Brazil:


We have constant illegal traffic by boat from the Latin American mainland, and it's a sure bet that P1 from Brazil is eventually coming here. Infection rate is showing some bad signs. Is it already here?

Looks like the beginning of a steep surge to me.

Can't visit the father anymore: he's in isolation. Complaining he doesn't like the food. Told him to lump it and stay put for now.

Spoiler: Dad's condition

He's had confusion, slurred speech and "loss of control" after his left carotid developed a thrombus ejecting clots up to brain last week.
Heard the noise in the artery at home with a scope, so we gave him antiplatelet drugs, water and salt, and worked on his NAD level.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6885080/ <- new studies suggest that damage after a stroke is reduced by fixing mitochondria with NAD, SIRT 3 and restoring flow.
Can't get those fancy drugs here, so I used the parsley for apigenin to block CD38, olive oil to activate SIRT3 with oleic acid, flaxseed powder to inhibit the enzyme sequence that makes arachidonic acid, and piles of greens to get nitrates to run his NO levels up, to dilate the cerebral vascular bed. A biochemical salad, 4 times a day. Kept him at home and gambled.

He has complete recovery. Did it work? No way to prove it.
But he no longer has me available. He's got a more conventional doctor now. I'm more than worried that the stroke reoccurs, and they send him to public hospital.

Logically: If the connection between his eye, taste buds and he can moan about it. He is running on the positive side of things, but as you have said. Random clots, that can go anywhere, are a threat and worry, but you know that he is in a good place and being looked after.

 

[Arry]

Idk, do you think I am anyhow benefitting from the Situation ? Having to pay rent, health insurance, payments for my daughter and some other things puts me down over 1k Euro a month, and for months by now, I have simply increased pesonal debt ( family/friends ) . I am not eligible for any governemntal support, it was impossible for me to find any paid work savings are mostly gone .

Does that change anything ? Did or do you think I am advocating for max possible containment of the virus because I am not personally affected, or even profiteering ?

The banks are loving all of this. One is slashing credit card limits, to about where the customers debt is, so all the customer can do, is pay in, to be able to put space, between debt and the new limit. All legal of course and they say that they are doing it, in the name of responsible lending.

 

[sewerratuk]

The banks are loving all of this. One is slashing credit card limits, to about where the customers debt is, so all the customer can do, is pay in, to be able to put space, between debt and the new limit. All legal of course and they say that they are doing it, in the name of responsible lending.

In an ideal world the top 1% would just hand over some of their money and cancel out all of the debt burden some people are under.
Unfortunately, whether people like it or not, we don’t live in an ideal world so all of us lesser folk will just have to bear it for the next decade or so

 

[metatheurgist]

International travel open today between the first 2 countries on the list in the OP.