Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying with this.
I must be jinxed or something, or it could be that I barely ever go to res sites.

I would also like to know this. Probably for different reasons but still.

Here's the thing, if you want to PvP, maybe you should organize it through a group. Open can't and will never be able to grant your wishes for all so degrade a bit.
Y'know, like make friends, and with frenemies so you can all have fun pew pewing...
If you're organized in a certain area, it would make sense that they could make it easier for you ALL to play together and against.
Has anyone ever tried that?
Y'know friend up and then have fun against, albeit if it's just about the epeen short term. Does the basic idea of a 4v4 in a circle of friends work?

 

[Sylveria]

First, anecdotal player experience is... well, anecdotal. It offers no real insight whatsoever. My friend list is full of dozens of people that would never, ever play this game if mode switching was taken away. Cuts both ways, still means absolutely nothing.

Modality is the reason that PvE is the method for victory? Er... You couldn't be more wrong. In fact it seems entirely backwards. PvP was from the very beginning intended to be RARE AND MEANINGFUL. I can't make that any more obvious without using garish colours and bigger fonts (or maybe a picture of a cat holding a sign). PvP was never, EVER, not in a month of Sundays or five blue moons EVER intended to be the designed measure of success or victory. PvE was, that's what a sandbox is. Experiencing and playing with the environment. The game. It's not a dirty concept, and though some can argue that it's not been implemented in a particularly fulfilling or imaginative way, there is still a huge amount of room for players to set goals and achievements for themselves and they could do it all without ever having to go smack newbies around or engage in meaningless, non-consenting aggression against other players.

Players broke open, if open is indeed broken. The modes only gave a lower threshold of tolerance of stupidity and abuse to other players. So as for "a shadow of what it should have been"? Really? Perhaps for a VERY TINY segment of the overall population. However, as is abundantly clear from just this thread alone (never mind Mobius or any of the other arguments for modes), modality has actually improved the game for many, many more players than however many you say it has crippled it for.

Agree 150% with this assessment. People like to skew the facts to support their positions- when in reality it's quite obvious what the "problem" really is.
The reason more people aren't playing Open is because that's the environment those who participated in it created.

If you urinate in the punch bowl, people are going to stop drinking it.
(Or, perhaps you're satisfied with drinking it yourself- and more power to you if so.)

 

[Asp Explorer]

Pvp and pve cannot coexist with each other. They are effectively playing a zero sum game. Allowing one diminishes the other.

Sorry Jordan, but I don't quite understand.

PvP player chooses Open or Group. PvE player can choose Solo, Group, or Open. All players can change modes at will, and play PvP or PvE or a mix. Neither diminishes any other. Elite is a zero sum game - it cannot be won.

 

[Jockey79]

....
I would also like to know this. Probably for different reasons but still.

Well, from their website;

Choose whether to share your discoveries with other players. They’re exploring the same vast universe in parallel; perhaps you’ll make your mark on their worlds as well as your own.

The use of "Choose" / " parallel" would suggest to me that NMS would be going in the same direction as ED or SC.

Also from an interview last December (cannot seem to find anything more recent).

“We’re not trying to make an MMO where you can play with literally 60,000 people on screen. We handle the case like where other people can fly past in your game or that you can bump into other players in the game.”

Encountering a player on the ground will be even more rare.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Here's the thing, if you want to PvP, maybe you should organize it through a group. Open can;t and will never be able to grant your wishes for all so degrade a bit.
Y'know, like make friends, and with frenemies so you can all have fun.
If your organized in a certain area, it would make sense that they could make it easier for you ALL to play together and against.
Has anyone ever tried that?

I'm not a duelist, I'm not looking for a fair fight. I'm not looking for who has more gimbal-be-gone and shield potion contest. I like piracy. Somehow I doubt I'll be able to get more traders to play in a new group than are currently in open.

 

[Mouse]

How can you say they weren't trying to please everyone? They were trying to get pvpers, pvers/coopers and the offline solo crowd. One didn't pan out so we were just left with the 2. They went too general for the game design, jack of all trades master of none. If they focused on one, the game would have been waay better for it.

Pvp and pve cannot coexist with each other. They are effectively playing a zero sum game. Allowing one diminishes the other.

I disagree, if they were trying to please everyone there would be pvp incentives, there are none. And I disagree that PVP and PVE can coexist, BUT there is a certain group of PVPers who do not want to co exist.. they want to kill, to antagonize, to make other miserable.. that group is the wedge driven between

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Agree 150% with this assessment. People like to skew the facts to support their positions- when in reality it's quite obvious what the "problem" really is.
The reason more people aren't playing Open is because that's the environment those who participated in it created.

If you urinate in the punch bowl, people are going to stop drinking it.
(Or, perhaps you're satisfied with drinking it yourself- and more power to you if so.)

I didn't realize Bear Grylls was a pvper

 

[Reaper99]

I have a question...what is so dang important about PVP...merit? reward?...isn't the reward for a being successful in what a group endeavor is...or like someone stated...getting to beat up on defenseless or weaker folks than themselves?...me...I'm a carebare...I admit it...hear me roar...or not...its space after all...but pull me out of supercruise...this bear got claws...and likes to maul...

some don't want to deal with the types found in eve...believe if I recall right the goons...loved making life miserable and imposing their will on others...would like to give a few reminders here.

1.Elite was about the same things that ED was about minus the open world or groups...it had a huge cult following
2. fast forward...ED...new Elite...with pvp perks...not...I repeat not...a pvp solely game.
3. if a person only wants to pvp...option 1. build a group like Mobius...get your buds...play...you got what you want..2. if that isn't what you want then, picking on those that just want to fly around, socialize and meet their goals are your goal and well that's kinda bully like and well not very neighborly...and doesn't promote the enjoyable game environment...clue they aren't enjoying your mean spiritedness. option 3. play ED for what it is...a space sim...with elements of PVP like it asdvertised...not something it didn't advertise.
4. PVP is fun but PVE is fun to...respect what others want to do...leave them to do it...find others that play like you do and play them...If this applies to a PVP'er and you argue this...maybe you just don't want to swim with the bigger sharks that bite back or
5. haven't gotten mauled bad enough by us carebare types

my personal favorite is one pulling me out of supercruise and decided to pick on someone obviously not caring to play...flipped around and started shootin till...his engines were gone and left him to suicide...did it two more times with some message about the shame of not being wrth finishing rather see em suicide...

folks we all gonna have different strokes...if a person don't wanna play ED...by all means stop...leave...delete...it isn't going to stop me from playing or others...lets bring it to next level...all the people that complain leave...guess what ED is still growing...it will continue without you...point of fact...Starwars galaxies an MMO with heavy pvp content...had a patch that changed a lot of gameplay...it lost 1.5 million players over night....it continued on til SWTOR came online dec 16th of what 2011 or 12...in either event the servers went down at midnight as the new swotr servers spooled up

point...ED has a cult following and it will continue without any of us whining about one thing or another...peace and good gaming to all...hope to see you as a friend...if not...ill have fun the other way to...im here to play and have fun...how bout the rest?

Cheers

 

[Asp Explorer]

I'm not looking for a fair fight.

That is possibly why you are not finding any. Nothing against you personally, you fight well and pirate properly and I've enjoyed our encounters - but other people have perhaps made your targets harder to find. Why not kill them instead? They aren't looking for a fair fight either

 

[Mouse]

I have a question...what is so dang important about PVP...merit? reward?...isn't the reward for a being successful in what a group endeavor is...or like someone stated...getting to beat up on defenseless or weaker folks than themselves?...me...I'm a carebare...I admit it...hear me roar...or not...its space after all...but pull me out of supercruise...this bear got claws...and likes to maul...

some don't want to deal with the types found in eve...believe if I recall right the goons...loved making life miserable and imposing their will on others...would like to give a few reminders here.

1.Elite was about the same things that ED was about minus the open world or groups...it had a huge cult following
2. fast forward...ED...new Elite...with pvp perks...not...I repeat not...a pvp solely game.
3. if a person only wants to pvp...option 1. build a group like Mobius...get your buds...play...you got what you want..2. if that isn't what you want then, picking on those that just want to fly around, socialize and meet their goals are your goal and well that's kinda bully like and well not very neighborly...and doesn't promote the enjoyable game environment...clue they aren't enjoying your mean spiritedness. option 3. play ED for what it is...a space sim...with elements of PVP like it asdvertised...not something it didn't advertise.
4. PVP is fun but PVE is fun to...respect what others want to do...leave them to do it...find others that play like you do and play them...If this applies to a PVP'er and you argue this...maybe you just don't want to swim with the bigger sharks that bite back or
5. haven't gotten mauled bad enough by us carebare types

my personal favorite is one pulling me out of supercruise and decided to pick on someone obviously not caring to play...flipped around and started shootin till...his engines were gone and left him to suicide...did it two more times with some message about the shame of not being wrth finishing rather see em suicide...

folks we all gonna have different strokes...if a person don't wanna play ED...by all means stop...leave...delete...it isn't going to stop me from playing or others...lets bring it to next level...all the people that complain leave...guess what ED is still growing...it will continue without you...point of fact...Starwars galaxies an MMO with heavy pvp content...had a patch that changed a lot of gameplay...it lost 1.5 million players over night....it continued on til SWTOR came online dec 16th of what 2011 or 12...in either event the servers went down at midnight as the new swotr servers spooled up

point...ED has a cult following and it will continue without any of us whining about one thing or another...peace and good gaming to all...hope to see you as a friend...if not...ill have fun the other way to...im here to play and have fun...how bout the rest?

Cheers

May kittens lay a thousand reps wrapped in bacon at your feet.

 

[Reaper99]

May kittens lay a thousand reps wrapped in bacon at your feet.

ok ok one last question...but very off topic with a fellow Mobius member ...I like options like most bears in their diet...what is a Bacon Cats?...uhh not sure my ship got room for lots of kittens...one or 2 maybe...but have to get along with my floppy eared dog. since no one has yet to give me someone to sit in the empty seat...at this point I'd be happy with a synthetic happy bot...shootin one liners out at me all the time

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Well, from their website;



The use of "Choose" / " parallel" would suggest to me that NMS would be going in the same direction as ED or SC.

Also from an interview last December (cannot seem to find anything more recent).

Thanks for that, i can only hope they get the npcs right, if the multiplayer is indeed like elite.

I disagree, if they were trying to please everyone there would be pvp incentives, there are none. And I disagree that PVP and PVE can coexist, BUT there is a certain group of PVPers who do not want to co exist.. they want to kill, to antagonize, to make other miserable.. that group is the wedge driven between

Yea but that kind of player is always around in any shape or form in every multiplayer game ever. Pvp incentives just gets peopel to put up with pvp, it's not a boon to pve at all.

That is possibly why you are not finding any. Nothing against you personally, you fight well and pirate properly and I've enjoyed our encounters - but other people have perhaps made your targets harder to find. Why not kill them instead? They aren't looking for a fair fight either

That's a thought but finding players with high bounties is even rarer than finding traders. If there was a working top 5 bounty board, or a way to track and be instanced with certain players I would consider it.

 

[Asp Explorer]

That's a thought but finding players with high bounties is even rarer than finding traders. If there was a working top 5 bounty board, or a way to track and be instanced with certain players I would consider it.

Completely agree with you on the bounty board - in the early DDF proposals those players with bounties caused by PvP action would be logging into Open every time they logged on, no matter what mode they clicked
It's a real shame that has not been implemented. And before someone says "Hypocrite! You advocate that all modes are open to everyone anytime - how dare you now FORCE people into Open Only mode!" that is a simple function of consequence. Players should be able to gain huge bounties from shooting NPC's all day, and stay in Solo and enjoy killing cops if that is their thing. Nobody cares. Players attaining up huge bounties by slaughtering other players though, that should have both PC and NPC ships looking for them.

From a certain viewpoint, it's only the most infamous player-killer griefing pew-pews who are actually hiding in Solo
I'm not so sure about tracking individual players as that could lead to griefing.

 

[Mouse]

ok ok one last question...but very off topic with a fellow Mobius member ...I like options like most bears in their diet...what is a Bacon Cats?...uhh not sure my ship got room for lots of kittens...one or 2 maybe...but have to get along with my floppy eared dog. since no one has yet to give me someone to sit in the empty seat...at this point I'd be happy with a synthetic happy bot...shootin one liners out at me all the time

Bacon fed cats are the best, super friendly fluffy and the rage for long travels when you need a companion.

 

[Mouse]

Yea but that kind of player is always around in any shape or form in every multiplayer game ever. Pvp incentives just gets peopel to put up with pvp, it's not a boon to pve at all.

So why would we want to give PVP incentives? If all it does it give people a reason to be in PVP to give the jerks targets. Rather get rid fo them and let people PVP when they want

 

[relayer]

The only difference would be consequence - and consequence is something I truly believe Elite needs lots, and lots, and LOTS MOAR!

MOAR *nods*

 

[relayer]

I have no intention to start my own game (and nor do I have the skills). I do find anecdotally that players would enjoy an Open only mode to Elite. I think it's worth FD giving it a go. I am providing feedback to FD that there is an audience for this. Other players in the thread(s) have and continue to do the same.

And would you pay extra for this new mode? That's really where it's at.

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I just don't see the demand. Not here in this thread anyway. My impression is that the BSG is used as a smokescreen for the effort to gain a larger population in open.

I, also, suggest that there isn't enough players in open, now, to support its own BSG, let alone a segment of open players who would opt in to your idea.

Agreed & agreed. Wait long enough & shapes emerge from the smoke.

Out of rep so +1 virtual rep.

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Originally Posted by Roybe
We all agree the modes suck.

No, we don't.

Seconded, we don't.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I have no intention to start my own game (and nor do I have the skills). I do find anecdotally that players would enjoy an Open only mode to Elite. I think it's worth FD giving it a go. I am providing feedback to FD that there is an audience for this. Other players in the thread(s) have and continue to do the same.

Not this player . FWIW I would be OK with an extra open mode where u have to be locked in but I do not believe this will be enough for many players who want to force the entire player base into playing with them.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yes...it solves the problem of player safety...but the costs to the rest of the game are to high. There is no reason to PvP....so why bother with it? You have to grind through SBC's to get to actually fight. Then you lose money when you win or lose. It prevents you from collecting the more important PvE trophies so that you can get proper rewards...so why bother with it at all...just do away with it by removing friendly fire.

I do not like the idea that all modes can interact with the BGS...but since anyone can have positive or negative interactions with anyone through this system...it seems more fair than what the game offers to PvP players. There are no positive outcomes for PvP players in the 'real galaxy'.

Once CQC opens, remove friendly fire from the game completely, let the PvP players play CQC, and those that do not find CQC to their liking...just follow the PvE players that are tired of grinding.

There's no need to remove (un)friendly fire from the game in Open - if you don't like the PvP there then simply don't do it. The game is full of choices - choose to play in a way that you enjoy - that's what games are for.

While you may not like the idea that all modes interact with the BGS, Frontier have stuck with this core feature since the outset and now other platforms also affect the same single shared galaxy state. In the ED:Horizons Dev Update is has been confirmed that all players will continue to affect the same galaxy state regardless of which Season they own.

What exactly is a positive outcome for PvP players? What is the "real galaxy" in this context?

Again, no need for such an extreme change, in my opinion. There's no logical reason why players should not continue to be able to attack / damage / destroy a small subset of ships in Open that are piloted by players rather than NPCs.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Private Groups are not advertised from the start menu - they have to be identified using out-of-game means and joined (and maintained - a not insignificant task).

The fact that we have a single "anything goes" open access mode is used as a justification, to an extent, for some of the behaviour that occurs in it - if one wants to play among strangers, one has to play in Open.

If there was another open access mode, available from the start menu, with a restriction on PvP then there'd be no reason for Mobius' to spend so much time maintaining the group he created - and everyone would have the option of playing PvP&E or just PvE.

(by PvP in this case, I refer to direct PvP, i.e. player vs player combat / piracy / etc., rather than indirect PvP, i.e. trading, PowerPlay, etc.)

I agree completely but I would hope we did not have magic shields but would instead have massive punishments for attacking pilots federation members... But whatever something would be nice. I am v concerned mobius will get tired one day and move on.

 

[relayer]

In this games design, grind is the equalizer.<shrug>

This is really what you get with most of the MMOs - most of it is grind. You grind a character's skills. You grind to get gold to spend on shiny things. You grind more to get to the top of various lists. Things like group raids are more rare (in game-time) than The Grind. So calling out The Grind like it's some new evil beast is not really realistic.