Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

Do you want a Open PvE

  • Yes, I want a Open PvE

    Votes: 54 51.4%
  • No, I don't want a Open PvE

    Votes: 49 46.7%
  • I want only Open PvE and PvP only in groups

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Talk about grasping at straws - 2 posts by Robert on that page (default layout) and none talk about CQC.

So I keep seeing the technique of reading a post then selectively finding one segment or semantic I.E. Ed is the game Frontier is the Company. Then attacking that single segment instead of posting counter arguments or facts to support your particular cause. I would submit to you are you debating to further your cause or just arguing just to be argumentative!
Nit picking and selectively attacking a small portion of a comment is the later !
It is just a method people try to use when they have nothing real to say to try to derail the topic at hand.
 
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Well indirectly by saying that Solo shouldn't affect open mode we are also conceding to the fact that solo mode shouldn't be affected by open mode thereby declaring that we agree that solo mode is just as equal and just as valid as open mode. We just want it so be a separate mode. Equal and valid but separate ! We are saying that we like to directly affect our environment! Via a blockade, or destroying CG trade routes or whatever. The hop in solo mode to bypass the blockade the current game play offers isn't appealing to the pvp/player interaction/ group. The current system of if a fly flaps it wings in Africa it causes a hurricane off the coast of Florida indirect game mechanic just doesn't work for us!
The above is just my personal take on the matter as no one has voted me to speak for the whole PVP/player interaction group just my opinion!

This is a more reasonable argument than usually gets made. But, it still flies in the face of all the design material from FD. You end up right back to why didn't you take the actual design of the game in to account before you purchased it? Everything you read tells you that the BSG is shared, and for good reason. The BSG is big, very big. It needs all the input it can find to function properly. Each mode likely won't have enough players to create enough change to make it worth while. If any of the accounts here on the forum are true open surly wouldn't.

I jump through the modes, my input would be minimized if I spread my activities over the three of them. This would encourage me into choosing, and staying with, that one mode of preference in order to maximize my influence. Effectively reducing the chance of seeing me in open. Reducing my ability to freely jump through the modes as my mood dictates. I wouldn;t see that as a benefit.

Finally we get to the financial argument against this. FD doesn't intend to maintain more than one BSG. What benefit would there be for them to take up that kind of expense? Would there be enough PvP/MP types to be able to pony up for their own set of servers? As it stands now those that defend the status quo are happy to share. If there are those that need a separation let's see if they want it enough to pay for it.
 
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So I keep seeing the technique of reading a post then selectively finding one segment or semantic I.E. Ed is the game Frontier is the Company. Then attacking that single segment instead of posting counter arguments or facts to support your particular cause. I would submit to you are you debating to further your cause or just arguing just to be argumentative!
Nit picking and selectively attacking a small portion of a comment is the later !
It is just a method people try to use when they have nothing real to say to try to derail the topic at hand.

So you make an accusation, that someone said something - and then provide the proof they didn't actually say it.
And I'm the one being "argumentative" ?

If you didn't want me to read the proof that Robert didn't say what you said he said - why did you link the posts he made where he didn't say it?
 
So you make an accusation, that someone said something - and then provide the proof they didn't actually say it.
And I'm the one being "argumentative" ?

If you didn't want me to read the proof that Robert didn't say what you said he said - why did you link the posts he made where he didn't say it?

That's the second time you have ninja'd me tonight, why link it <scratches head>, its not like anyone needs an IT degree to check.
 
So you make an accusation, that someone said something - and then provide the proof they didn't actually say it.
And I'm the one being "argumentative" ?

If you didn't want me to read the proof that Robert didn't say what you said he said - why did you link the posts he made where he didn't say it?

His point clearly said work on one mode detracts from content on other modes. It has been said in other posts as well and Robert either agreed and supported the post with his follow up or directly said it himself.
I did not use direct quotes did I? Did I misrepresent the point that he made? Time spent on development of one portion a multiplayer one detracts from time spent on other content.
It is nit picky and just an argument because I posted an entire paragraph and you select one tiny unimportant statement to argue about that is unimportant to the topic! Not only that but Robert is a big boy and if I misrepresented his comment he can say it for himself.


On top of it all I said someone made a point and that is suddenly an accusation. Again you choice of words calling it an accusation is just and attempt to make it appear to be more hostile.

So you see how this works now the whole conversation is derailed and we are not talking about open vs solo we are arguing over nothing. Nice work derailing the conversation and proving my point!
Care to get back on topic?
 
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So I keep seeing the technique of reading a post then selectively finding one segment or semantic I.E. Ed is the game Frontier is the Company. Then attacking that single segment instead of posting counter arguments or facts to support your particular cause. I would submit to you are you debating to further your cause or just arguing just to be argumentative!
Nit picking and selectively attacking a small portion of a comment is the later !
It is just a method people try to use when they have nothing real to say to try to derail the topic at hand.


Robert asked you a question, your answer was a thread, one in which he at no point said what you said he said so you have yet to answer Robert's question to you. Jockey points this out to you and you start to ramble... you know.. a method used by people when they have nothing to say and try to derail a topic.
 
His point clearly said work on one mode detracts from content on other modes.

No, the 2nd post stated work on "Guilds" would detract from other features.

If a separate Guild mode was implemented then I would expect that at least some of the opposition to their introduction would disappear - however their associated design, development, debugging and deployment would take development time and effort away from other features and would incur costs.


Did I misrepresent the point that he made?

Yes, as I'm currently showing above.

Time spent on development of one portion a multiplayer one detracts from time spent on other content.

Not always, FD have been taking on new staff - to work on new things (some for ED some for the other game I can only assume).
The only time I've heard of a staff member being moved away from one project is SJA was taken off AI tweaking / improvement for ED, and no one knows what project she was put on (And we all miss her deeply, as not only was she taking feedback from the forums but she engaged with us almost daily back then)

It is nit picky and just an argument because I posted an entire paragraph and you select one tiny unimportant statement to argue about that is unimportant to the topic! Not only that but Robert is a big boy and if I misrepresented his comment he can say it for himself.

You didn't post anything other than a link while claiming a Mod said something he didn't.
I'm not "nit picking" - I'm looking for the truth in your claim, and found none so far.
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by david6768

BTW. Where are all the threads hating on CQC? You solo guys have to know as Robert keeps pointing out that any dev time spent on multiplayer CQC stuff is taking coding time away from solo stuff!


Where do I keep "pointing out that any dev time spent on multiplayer CQC stuff is taking coding time away from solo stuff!", quote requested.

I'm quite looking forward to CQC - consensual PvP in a no-consequence environment should be quite a lot of fun!



Now.. the two posts from Robert..


Not all players who are against the introduction of Guilds play outside Open. Me, for example.

If a separate Guild mode was implemented then I would expect that at least some of the opposition to their introduction would disappear - however their associated design, development, debugging and deployment would take development time and effort away from other features and would incur costs.


Now those are DIRECTLY from where you linked... so.. please tell me in those two posts.. where Robert "keeps pointing out that any dev time spent on multiplayer CQC stuff is taking coding time away from solo stuff!"

YOU are the one making the claim and posted your link as proof.. now please.. explain..

Edit : Ninja'd by Jockey ^,^
 
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Edit : Ninja'd by Jockey ^,^

I'm getting good at that tonight.

Not doing so well flying my T9 and keep getting distracted by the forums, I keep over shooting my drop out points.
The woes of 2 monitors, ED on one and the forums on the other, lol.
 
<Wall of Info goes here>

You were just dying to drop the wall on the head of some unsuspecting poster, weren't you? :p

How about we get one quote, or bit of marketing from FD that says open is the primary mode of play.

Actually, there are quite a few quotes that hint at Open being what DB himself, if not Frontier, considers as the ideal way to play. They are more or less useless to those that defend the other modes segregated, restricted, or removed, though, because nearly every one of those has he saying in the same breath that players get to choose at will in which mode to play and will still get to enjoy everything the game has to offer even if they choose to not play in Open.

To the best of my knowledge he also doesn't go beyond hinting, too.
 
You were just dying to drop the wall on the head of some unsuspecting poster, weren't you? :p

Well, I've spent days telling people the link to it is in my sig - but no one seems to use it :(
Though I was happy to find out the other links have been used to filter posts and so on :)
 
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https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by david6768 https://forums.frontier.co.uk/images.elite/buttons/viewpost-right.png
BTW. Where are all the threads hating on CQC? You solo guys have to know as Robert keeps pointing out that any dev time spent on multiplayer CQC stuff is taking coding time away from solo stuff!







Now.. the two posts from Robert..







Now those are DIRECTLY from where you linked... so.. please tell me in those two posts.. where Robert "keeps pointing out that any dev time spent on multiplayer CQC stuff is taking coding time away from solo stuff!"

YOU are the one making the claim and posted your link as proof.. now please.. explain..

Edit : Ninja'd by Jockey ^,^

however their associated design, development, debugging and deployment would take development time and effort away from other features and would incur costs.

To be honest who gives a crap? The question was why are the solo guys up in arms about the development time being spent over CQC? That was the question the As Robert keeps pointing out was not a part of the paragraph that was of great importance in the first place and to argue over it is a complete waste of time.

There is a place for proper quotes " " I did not use proper quotes and nor did I misrepresent what he said there nor am I going to spend the time to reread them to find further "evidence" It just isn't an important fact to the discussion. I provided a link where he clearly says that development time spent on guilds( something multiplayer) (CQC is multiplayer) detracts from the development of other features (other being solo)
That is the point he made with that comment and I brought that point in as reference to CQC .

Now that is the end of the derailment as I am not speaking on this small trivial point any longer. You can attempt to keep it up but I will not comment on it further period!
 
To be honest who gives a crap? The question was why are the solo guys up in arms about the development time being spent over CQC?

It wasn't the Solo people up in arms about anything. It was Mac and PC players asking "CQC on XB1 first? Urm hang on - PC is the primary development platform!" and MB had to step in and say "Urm, it's because Xbox, and Xbox players and urm, you'll get it eventually!"

Perhaps you are thinking of the Guild Only mode which was suggested many times, and repeatedly rejected by the Guild of Open Only advocates. Or perhaps the Separate Background Sim for Open. Those would indeed have taken development time away from other things.
 
I did not purchase it at full price, I got it on the Steam sale
So you did know, or should have known, that this game was also sold as a single-player game. Again, if that isn't enough of a hint that you won't be able to meet or influence every other player, I don't know what is.

So based on this I find solo play lacking


So they can add endgame content and this would drastically improve the game play and I would be happy!

Elite has always been a franchise where the players must make their own objectives, blaze their own trail. While I do agree with you that the game is, to an extent, content-poor — an issue exacerbated by the Anarchy systems being too easy for an Elite game — hand-holding the player and guiding him across a series of goals was never what Elite was about. I wouldn't complain about more content being added, though, more options for players to engage would always be welcome.

On the other hand I don't think end-game content is appropriate for ED. Or, at least, not end game content in the same sense as in conventional MMOs, where an explicit level barrier prevents the player from engaging that content before going through the rest of the game. Thus, I think any such extra content added in ED should be available for a multitude of ships, for various places along the progression.

Also, ship progression isn't really a requirement in ED. Players should, in the end, fly the ship they enjoy flying the best. It might be a small and agile fighter, a large multi-purpose ship, a good exploration ship, whatever. You should avoid thinking that all players will converge to a single kind of ship, this is not how an Elite game works, which in turn means that making content require specific ships is bad form for a game like ED (well, apart from the obvious requirement of having a cargo hold for taking trading missions and things like this).

They can add guilds and open only mode and player owned space stations and leave the gameplay basically as it, as the interactiveness itself would be added gameplay and I would be happy
This one I doubt. Frontier, if I'm not mistaken, explicitly wanted to avoid the chance of players being ever able to exclude others from part of the game galaxy, and weren't keen on the idea of players owning stations or space. And, in any case, it would interact poorly with Group and Solo modes.

I wouldn't be surprised if Power Play is roughly the closest they are willing to get to that model; it has ownership, but it's a NPC faction owning space and stations, with players still able to play in that space regardless of affiliation. It is also explicitly made to work for all modes, and not only Open.

They could even add the guild type grouping tools for communication and chat I.E faction chat/Faction voice and have a more coop PVE only open world and I likely enjoy that as well.
ED and Star Citizen are together in that their devs don't want players to feel like they must join a group in order to enjoy the game; they see the lone wolf as a target audience and want to attract that kind of player. So, I more or less doubt there will be much in the way of group-only content. Besides, it's not like you can do MMO-style instanced group content in ED's framework, and non-instanced group content is notorious for often being doable by resourceful solo players.

I have never said only open mode that is the only way, just that it is one way they could improve the game IMO.
"Improve" here is subjective. Anything that could ever force me into a PvP situation, either by actually forcing it or by locking PvE content or rewards usable in PvE behind the PvP, is the very opposite to an improvement for me. And, given the fact the largest in-game group is dedicated to PvE, I believe I'm not alone in this.

BTW. Where are all the threads hating on CQC? You solo guys have to know as Robert keeps pointing out that any dev time spent on multiplayer CQC stuff is taking coding time away from solo stuff!

CQC will pay for itself in the new players it attracts. It's actually a very smart use of the already existing game resources to serve a different audience, one that wouldn't be attracted by the current game, without removing anything from the other modes. Win-win.

The only ones unhappy about CQC seem to be a part of the PvPers that fear many of the people playing PvP right now will instead do it in CQC, reducing the population of Open even more.
 
To be honest who gives a crap? The question was why are the solo guys up in arms about the development time being spent over CQC? That was the question the As Robert keeps pointing out was not a part of the paragraph that was of great importance in the first place and to argue over it is a complete waste of time.

There is a place for proper quotes " " I did not use proper quotes and nor did I misrepresent what he said there nor am I going to spend the time to reread them to find further "evidence" It just isn't an important fact to the discussion. I provided a link where he clearly says that development time spent on guilds( something multiplayer) (CQC is multiplayer) detracts from the development of other features (other being solo)
That is the point he made with that comment and I brought that point in as reference to CQC .

Now that is the end of the derailment as I am not speaking on this small trivial point any longer. You can attempt to keep it up but I will not comment on it further period!


Apparently you do give a crap your the only one bringing up that solo players are up in arms about development time being spent on CQC which has been proven to be untrue.

Yes he did clearly say that, but that is NOT what you claimed he said.. you said "You solo guys have to know as Robert keeps pointing out that any dev time spent on multiplayer CQC stuff is taking coding time away from solo stuff" Which has been proven false with the evidence that you provided.. ant no point did you make a point, you made an accusation which was false. And if there is any derailment it was you.
 
.....Elite has always been a franchise where the players must make their own objectives, blaze their own trail.........

This is where it all goes wrong - people see that blasted MMO tag and expect a scripted/ liner experience.
The term itself has become synonymous with turn your brain off and let someone else drive your imagination.

That term and the ideals of the Elite franchise were never going to mix well. A game that relies on the individual's imagination being sold as a game where people can just switch off and go through the motions of leveling / gear up / raiding and finally moving on to the next one to do the same again.

Even Mystic Meg could have predicted that wasn't going to work out well.
 
It wasn't the Solo people up in arms about anything. It was Mac and PC players asking "CQC on XB1 first? Urm hang on - PC is the primary development platform!" and MB had to step in and say "Urm, it's because Xbox, and Xbox players and urm, you'll get it eventually!"

Perhaps you are thinking of the Guild Only mode which was suggested many times, and repeatedly rejected by the Guild of Open Only advocates. Or perhaps the Separate Background Sim for Open. Those would indeed have taken development time away from other things.

sorry about the confusion I am aware the solo only guys aren't in an uproar about it, I missed the "'t" in my rewrite. Why aren't the solo guys upset about the development time being spent on what is clearly multiplayer only content.
Was the question that I posed a while back before we got sidetracked.

in the "g" word thread there was a lot of comments from a lot of people stating that they never ever play in open but they are against the "G" word because any development on it would be time that wasn't spent on developing solo content. I was just curious as to why those people weren't up in arms over the CQC development.

But alas after all the following conversation I lost interest in the initial question anyways lol.
Thanks for trying to clear that up though :)
 
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sorry about the confusion I am aware the solo only guys aren't in an uproar about it, I missed the "'t" in my rewrite. Why aren't the solo guys upset about the development time being spent on what is clearly multiplayer only content.
Was the question that I posed a while back before we got sidetracked.


Because Solo players are willing to play a game with different modes for others and help make things better and don't want to force players to play their way.
 
sorry about the confusion I am aware the solo only guys aren't in an uproar about it, I missed the "'t" in my rewrite. Why aren't the solo guys upset about the development time being spent on what is clearly multiplayer only content.
Was the question that I posed a while back before we got sidetracked.

Simply because it's not Elite multi-player only content. CQC stays in CQC and has no impact on multiplayer Elite in Open (although we now have been told that there is a new rank progression, which doesn't matter as peeps only ever see your non-QCQ Elite Combat ranking, and some transfer of Credits)

As CQC is arena-based and purely voluntary - many Solo players take that to be a good thing. If they ever feel like taking part - they can, at any time, and it will have no effect on their "real" game state in Elite itself. A win-win for everyone I think.
 
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