Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Morbad]

There is a war shaping up, and all this business with Emperor's Dawn is probably going to result in a CG with CZs sooner or later. Also, all CGs have combat to one degree or another...even if they aren't combat CGs.

In the mean time, I just fly I around minding my own business, apparently looking extremely suspicious with my Backer # and NO FACTION...and people pick fights with me pretty frequently.

 

[Lestenio]

to expand on that further: ED's existing content is extremely simple & repetitive, and there are many many examples of new players quickly getting bored of ED (e.g. someone convincing many friends to buy ED, but now he's the only one still playing it). Fixing that lack of content will take FD a *lot* of time (especially with distractions like CQC). One "quick fix" is to get the players to generate "content" themselves. The simplest form of such content is having players effectively create their own small unique stories by simply interacting with other players (who behave less predictably than any NPC ever will).

I don't agree with your reasoning here. Because someone is bored with the game, I'm not going to become their content just to make them happy and keep them playing. If all they want is pew pew there are better games out there for that. It isn't what elite is.

 

[W0OCQCK]

well that's not true.

they say they want to implement a slider in your settings.
the slider will determine the PROBABILITY of you encountering a fellow human.

at the extreme PVE end you can get down to %1 or %2, but you will never get the solo situation that you get here in ED.

the person you meet on these rare occasions could have an attitude that ranges from wanting to tie your corpse to the front of their ship for bragging right on killing newbs, to the attitude that they are handing out tickets for free ships that you can exchange at the next station you dock at.
and all attitudes in between, including just flying past without even noticing you.

so YES there will be some control over how often you DO NOT meet other players, just not as certain as solo mode is here.

not sure if there will be any real equivalent to group mode. merely some low priority aspect as yet to be determined involving your friends list.

You completely ignore the "Private Servers" where players can host there own fully functional, and unlimited private invite only server, which can have a highly modified rule set as say, "PVE ONLY". Fundamentally same result as ED, just a slightly different approach.

I'm an avid SC supporter, "Private Servers" are a very big part of it, and CR has strongly supported this from the very beginning.

 

[relayer]

I have had mine for ~ 6-9 months and I am very happy, for ~ £35 - £40 its a great bit of kit, you can easily spend 10 times that and not get much more. I can totally recommend it as a budget HOTAS.

Thanks for all the info; much appreciated! Now to see if the sofa cushions are hiding an unexpected windfall...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

You completely ignore the "Private Servers" where players can host there own fully functional, and unlimited private invite only server, which can have a highly modified rule set as say, "PVE ONLY". Fundamentally same result as ED, just a slightly different approach.

I'm an avid SC supporter, "Private Servers" are a very big part of it, and CR has strongly supported this from the very beginning.

Indeed. I will be giving the official servers a go that is for sure but if it ends up to much PvP for my tastes I will be hunting out a Mobius equivalent PvE server

 

[CYB34]

Why does anyone think this game was intended to be PvP?

Maybe the game as a whole is not PvP, but does Open Play have any other purpose than PvP?

 

[Zieman]

Maybe the game as a whole is not PvP, but does Open Play have any other purpose than PvP?

Originally DB meant Open Play to give players the possibility to have rare, meaningful encounters with other players. If by PvP you mean any interaction, be it conversation, combat, even onesided stuff like hiding and running away without the other party even noticing you, then no. But if you mean only combat between players by PvP, then the answer is yes.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If this thread continues to discuss the three game modes then it will be merged into this thread.

 

[xondk]

ok try this as what needs to be fixed:



and as you said "The simplest form of such content is having players effectively create their own small unique stories by simply interacting with other players".

and those small unique stories are not always;
"i am proud and loud that i am death and i rain on you because you are newb and i am stronger and i don't care if you quit playing the game.
yes and if this game that we are playing right now dies because of me, i don't care.
because for me yes me who is death raining on you there are other games with newbs like you that i can go kill again and again and no matter how many games die and go out of business there will always be another game to go to because they can not stop me and my kind".

however it does not take many stories like that to teach people that open is a place that is specifically designed and reserved for only two kinds of players.

it's not true.
no it's not true, but how many times do you need to get beat down to get the idea you are in the wrong neighborhood?

Yup, yet one of the main problems, I think if there was better ingame communication between non friends, it might be easier?
For example if each station had its own board of a sort, just plain text or such, maybe with limited amount of input? where people could put up messages, and they would stay there for say I don't know 30 days? a bulletin board basically, maybe a way to send messages to people that are not online?, and allow people to communicate easier with their already existing groups without having to have friend list being insane.

Basically, I think the answer to this is communication, allowing people to organize easier without having to find a group, for example, if newbies are getting attacked by a specific group of people, they could post a bulletin asking for help, telling who it was, since that would be an entirely ingame way of doing it. And naming should naturally be allowed ingame.
I am aware it might bring certain complications, but the actual communication system/bulletin system itself, does not need to be overly complex, can be plain text mostly, with a report/block functionality.

In short, ingame communication needs to improve, maybe allow a way to finding other people ingame as well, not as in where or such people are, but more an I suppose bigger ingame bulletin boards that sync across space at x time?.
Maybe have.
Station Bulletin Board. - Allowing people to leave specific news at specific places
System Bulletin Board. - Allowing people to leave messages related to system, people organizing in system, pirates stating demands against those in system and so on.
Galaxy Bulletin Board. - Galaxy wide board
Faction Bulletin Board. - Allow factions major and minor to have boards? but only accessible to their allies, so you would need to be allied to read it?

I realize it may sound like a lot, But I don't think it would be much of a problem, a plain bulletin board system would enhance the social aspect of the game a great deal, yes of course it would need some features to prevent spamming and such, maybe a price to post on the board? Galaxy wide being the significantly most expensive naturally, system being fair and station being quite cheap?
Boards worked great in the good MUD days, we should learn from them, and I think it would help the game a GREAT deal.

 

[SentineI]

your 'simple' idea misses one pretty significant point. Not all players want to interact with other players ...

When people come onto the forums, this thread, and put forward the idea that we'd all be better off if we were forced to play in Open

Sigh. I never said people should be forced to play in Open, rather I merely said they should be encouraged... and only in the specific case of Power Play. Believe it or not, I actually mainly play PP in Solo, simply because it's the most efficient way to get the large amount of merits (and time) necessary for a Rating with a decent reward. If FD changed it so this was no-longer true, then I'd be much more likely to switch to Open.

Sadly it seems this kind of misunderstanding of my post was unavoidable, because my thread was merged with this seemingly-unrelated thread that appears to be mainly arguing for/against forcing people into Open. :-(

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If open is so great, why do you want to "encourage" people to play there?
Surely the appeal of open will shine through without gimmicks or incentives.

See my above post for why *I* don't do PP in Open, even though I think it would be a more fun experience. I am NOT arguing that everyone should play in Open all the time.

 

[SentineI]

I don't agree with your reasoning here. Because someone is bored with the game, I'm not going to become their content just to make them happy and keep them playing. If all they want is pew pew there are better games out there for that. It isn't what elite is.

Why do you instantly think that Open is all about being shot at? Power Play is supposed to be about working as a group for a specific goal.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Why do you instantly think that Open is all about being shot at? Power Play is supposed to be about working as a group for a specific goal.

Because the only thing that differentiates Open Mode form large private PvE groups is PvP. Open Mode is about PvP and only about PvP, about pure and simple PvP.
If somebody wants to "work as a group for a specific goal" he can do that in a private PvE group.

Don't get me wrong, Open Mode can be fun, but it's about PvP – about avoiding PvP or about searching PvP.

 

[ianw]

Sigh. I never said people should be forced to play in Open, rather I merely said they should be encouraged... and only in the specific case of Power Play. Believe it or not, I actually mainly play PP in Solo, simply because it's the most efficient way to get the large amount of merits (and time) necessary for a Rating with a decent reward. If FD changed it so this was no-longer true, then I'd be much more likely to switch to Open.

Sadly it seems this kind of misunderstanding of my post was unavoidable, because my thread was merged with this seemingly-unrelated thread that appears to be mainly arguing for/against forcing people into Open. :-(

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See my above post for why *I* don't do PP in Open, even though I think it would be a more fun experience. I am NOT arguing that everyone should play in Open all the time.

I think this highlights the problem. You and others like you are crippling your own fun for the sake of what you perceive as a progress advantage.

And then you want game changes to adapt to you instead of you adapting to the game.

What is the perceived advantage in % terms - I'm assuming you know - what's the % difference that's enough to make you stop enjoying yourself by playing the game the way that's more fun?

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Sigh. I never said people should be forced to play in Open, rather I merely said they should be encouraged... and only in the specific case of Power Play. Believe it or not, I actually mainly play PP in Solo, simply because it's the most efficient way to get the large amount of merits (and time) necessary for a Rating with a decent reward. If FD changed it so this was no-longer true, then I'd be much more likely to switch to Open.

Sadly it seems this kind of misunderstanding of my post was unavoidable, because my thread was merged with this seemingly-unrelated thread that appears to be mainly arguing for/against forcing people into Open. :-(

- - - Updated - - -


See my above post for why *I* don't do PP in Open, even though I think it would be a more fun experience. I am NOT arguing that everyone should play in Open all the time.

Open is about meeting random other Players, anybody who wants to meet other random players will play open and anybody who don't want to will choose Group or Solo. The modes are just about who you play with, no need to encourge any mode with anything else.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Because the only thing that differentiates Open Mode form large private PvE groups is PvP. Open Mode is about PvP and only about PvP, about pure and simple PvP.
If somebody wants to "work as a group for a specific goal" he can do that in a private PvE group.

Don't get me wrong, Open Mode can be fun, but it's about PvP – about avoiding PvP or about searching PvP.

The reason for that is twofold.

First, since open is the only mode avaliable for pvp(unless you set up a group for it) it makes sense that all the pvp is there. There's no other, convenient choice.

Two There's no reason for non combat professions to play in open inflating the number of players who pvp.

 

[Seonid]

Open Mode is about PvP and only about PvP, about pure and simple PvP.

What complete and utter nonsense, to you personally, it may be true but that's it. There are more people than you in Open and they are doing lots of things that are not PvP related. Sorry.

Two There's no reason for non combat professions to play in open inflating the number of players who pvp.

Also nonsense and again driven by cognitive dissonance.

 

[Jockey79]

See my above post for why *I* don't do PP in Open, even though I think it would be a more fun experience. I am NOT arguing that everyone should play in Open all the time.

The beauty of PP is, it was designed to be played in all modes.
So where you choose to do PP things is perfectly valid and part of the game.

Which proves Open does not need any artificial boosts, as some people do PP in Open, some in Groups and some in Solo.

Frontier themselves said it is balanced (check the last link in my sig)

 

[Schmack]

Maybe the game as a whole is not PvP, but does Open Play have any other purpose than PvP?

That's a different goalpost.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Two There's no reason for non combat professions to play in open inflating the number of players who pvp.

There is no reason why a private Group couldn't be PvP based. Two out of 3 modes offer the option of PvP.
I agree with you, there are no reasons for non combat professions to play open, but I don't think that any added benefit, bonus or game aspect would significantly increase the population in Open Mode. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the reason why Open mode is perceived as empty is mainly because a large part of the player base simply don't want open world PvP.

What complete and utter nonsense, to you personally, it may be true but that's it. There are more people than you in Open and they are doing lots of things that are not PvP related. Sorry.
…

As I wrote, everything other than PvP can be done in a private PvE group or in solo. If you play Open mode you can always get attacked, PvP is always part of Open mode. Avoiding PvP is an important part of Open mode (unless you want to actively participate in direct PvP). It doesn't matter if players in Open do a lot of other things beside PvP (or avoiding PvP).

You will react differently to a CMDR in Open mode simply because there is a (slight?) chance that he might attack you. That's PvP affecting you in open mode. In a pure PvE environment you would just say "Hi" or ignore that CMDR.

 

[SentineI]

I have a strong suspicion that Power Play was intended to fix ... the lack of player interaction in multiplayer (as that has the possibility to greatly extend the shelf life of Elite Dangerous)... unfortunately PP in it's current incarnation has various issues that (a) discourage people from playing PP in the first place, and (b) encourage playing PP in Solo
...
EDIT: I have a third & far more subtle suggestion:

* PP heavily focuses on merits to reach particular Ratings, and Solo is one of the easiest/safest ways to grind merits. So (as FD's Sandro has been considering) get rid of merit decay (at least for 'casual' CMDRs), so that they don't have to worry about grinding merits before the week is up. Then 'casual' CMDRs can consider playing PP in Open, without having to worry if they are doing it the most efficient way.

I've updated my first post (bold part), as I had a brainwave. It avoids penalising Solo players of PP in any fashion, and instead gets rid of (my) major reason for Soloing PP even when Open should be more fun

edit: Unfortunately I suspect this insight will be entirely under appreciated here, because this thread is about Solo vs Open, while I'm trying to discuss how to improve Power Play...