No I'm not. I'm a trader and have been in Open since Gamma and I have no real interest in PVP (too many PKMUD's did that long ago).
Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
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No I'm not. I'm a trader and have been in Open since Gamma and I have no real interest in PVP (too many PKMUD's did that long ago).
I never said you signed up to be their prey, just that if you are a non PVPer and in open, if they find you, your prey. If you have a really good ship that can defend them off long enough for you to get out of dodge it is good, but your still prey are you not?
No, I'm a target not prey, very very different things.
*Shrug* I admit I don't view them differently. Even a predator can be preyed upon by other predators, but even a Deer can fight back sometimes. IF they target you to them your prey, but again that is my view on it.
Yep, you are a pilot in a ship and you can be interdicted by any other ship that wants what you have. NPC or Player, Elite doesn't care who does it. It's a cold hearted beast. Only we care about such trivial matters. Luckily we can decide who does the deed with solo, open or group filters. At the end of the day it's PvElite and she wants blood. If a player isn't who you want to take it, maybe some NPC's can give it a shot. You get to choose.
But humans are always more challenging
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True those elite anacondas are getting brutal. I got pulled out by an Elite Python the other day and it cost me a pretty penny.Actually, no they aren't, not always.
I've beat one elite Conda and that is only because it was my mission target (didn't know it was in a Bloody conda) and I spotted it in super cruise.. decided to jump into a station and sell bounty tags and it followed me in.. most of the work was done by the security forces and I got credit but it almost killed me before I managed to get in the station and repair
Robert Maynard
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But humans are always more challenging
Half of human players are of median combat skill or below.
But humans are always more challenging
I know, a number of posters have already responded.... but you could have said "Dedicated PvPers are generally more challenging" - i wouldn't always say "always" either... there are some PvPers who are worse than me. I've watched a number of vids from people who seem to be PvP advocates and laughed at their combat skills. No power management, poor thruster usage (especially lateral and erm... what's the other word... up and down... thrusters), and not taking advantage of opponent weakneses.
Oh boy... i mean, i probably suck at PvP, but i sometimes wonder how some of these dedicated PvPers manage to even kill harmless NPCs.
UO did so; it created a PvE mode and allowed players to freely move between the old PvP one and the new PvE mode, and according to the devs it saved the game
Less drastic, but one of the changes that helped keep DCUO afloat was allowing players to freely switch between the PvP and PvE servers. For those that expected PvP players to be able to level up in PvP all the way through, it was a drastic change.
There are other MMOs that did similar things, removing barriers between players and different play styles.
Adding such barriers after launch, though? I don't know of a single MMO that did so. Up to now it seems to be an one-way street.
Oh, right. This one has a special place. Though I don't believe it will be to your liking.
You think the hardcore left? Lol.
The ones that left were the posers, the ones that like showing off in front of everyone, the ones that were miffed because having purples didn't make them special anymore; the players that were in the game for the challenge remained. The game still has content as challenging as, or even more challenging than, the raids of yore. I mean, ever compared the mechanics of one of those old 40-man raids with those of their modern hard-mode counterparts? A 40-man raid could be carried by less than a dozen actually competent players, the rest could be scrubs just to fill the empty places, while a modern 20-man Mystic mode raid requires everybody to pull their weight.
And, in any case, you will notice that the theme here is accessibility. Increasing options. What WoW did, it did to provide more venues for all players, in a way that is not dissimilar to allowing players to earn their things in a more controlled "solo" mode before stepping over onto more conventional multiplayer.
In other words, WoW changed to allow players to farm in an empty server, where they get less lag and competition, and go play with others somewhere else. Why does that sound familiar?
WoW slowly tore down the barriers between PvP and PvE servers. First by allowing server transfers between the two server types (originally such transfers were disallowed), then by allowing players from different server types to meet in instances (at first only by random grouping, after a while also by making a cross-server party and getting into an instance), then by allowing players to travel to different server types altogether (when joining a group created by someone from another server).
And PvP, then! The order of the day was to offer ways to do consensual PvP, offer places where players would fight each other by choice rather than be forced to fight, and slowly but steadily remove all the PvP rewards from every other place. In early WoW you could ambush other players anywhere in the open world for PvP rewards; in current WoW, PvP rewards are only given in places and times where the PvP is consensual, mutually sought over.
So, from segregation to inclusion. From different server types being completely separate to integrating them together. From all conflict being encouraged to rewarding only consensual PvP. You can even create a character in a PvP realm and level exclusively on PvE ones, without paying anything extra, with the help of a friend and a bit of work. This is the direction games seem to change, from separated and segregated experiences to something that allows players to choose how and with who they play. Like I said above, while I've seen multiple MMOs change in this direction, I've yet to see a single one do the opposite.
And, BTW, the networking model is still the same used at launch. Client-server, with separate servers for instances and for non-game things like login, chat, and AH. The only difference is that now the servers in a "battlegroup" cluster can work together and exchange player data, which allows players to be moved seamlessly across different realms and instances to hold cross-realm groups.
UO did so; it created a PvE mode and allowed players to freely move between the old PvP one and the new PvE mode, and according to the devs it saved the game
Less drastic, but one of the changes that helped keep DCUO afloat was allowing players to freely switch between the PvP and PvE servers. For those that expected PvP players to be able to level up in PvP all the way through, it was a drastic change.
There are other MMOs that did similar things, removing barriers between players and different play styles.
Adding such barriers after launch, though? I don't know of a single MMO that did so. Up to now it seems to be an one-way street.
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So, enlightening me in some gaming history (thank you btw, always nice to be proven wrong
) you're saying that games who were more PvP centric or kept PvP/PvE locked apart - in order to "save" the their respective games the Devs had to overhaul the games to allow for more of a PvE focus, and the ability to switch between PvE / PvP at will ?Almost like,switching modes, between free and Open PvP and more chilled PvE when it suited the player.....
Hmm, I know I've seen that idea in a more recent game, now what was it ????
My vote for best post in this thread...
Scudmungus
Banned
OT but..
Fi yuh evil NPC double, wid name and all, just interdicted me, in Phraces. You better be having words with him! :O
Hi Fire70, hope you are well.
I sort of agree with you here, to a point. I normally avoid the MMO is it / is it not discussions as I see so many games I have never played being discussed so I feel a little under qualified to get involved, although I did express an opinion on it and marketing recently https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=145309&page=205&p=2369671#post2369671
I would suggest the best strategy for now would be to assume anything promised at KS that's still in game 6 months post launch is most likely not going to change. Other things may well be tweaked.
I sort of agree with you here, to a point. I normally avoid the MMO is it / is it not discussions as I see so many games I have never played being discussed so I feel a little under qualified to get involved, although I did express an opinion on it and marketing recently https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=145309&page=205&p=2369671#post2369671
I would suggest the best strategy for now would be to assume anything promised at KS that's still in game 6 months post launch is most likely not going to change. Other things may well be tweaked.
you and your fancy math talk.
And therein lies the problem with incentives for Open play. You would be incentivizing for something that might happen, not something that will happen. Additionally, as other posters point out in this thread, not all PvP'ers are ace combat pilots or pirates, so you might have a situation where a player in Open gets pirated by a mediocre CMDR, whereas a player in Solo gets interdicted by a wing of Deadly NPC pirates. Who is actually having it harder? Under those circumstances, rewarding Open would be blatantly unnecessary and of course unfair.
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I can confirm there have been a few converts, before "mega thread 1" even started I remember a few where someone demanded the modes be separated, when it was explained how many people used open along with other modes regularly (I was open every weekend back then, solo when I was grabbing a quick hour before bed during the week).
When the OP saw a fair few people saying if it happened they would pick solo / groups (why do they always class solo & groups together?) and would never play in open again if they had to make another CMDR, the guy went in to reverse so quick he broke his FSD
.I have also seen another CMDR who's name I will not forget or mention who was tenacious in his views, I even repped him for it whist stating I still did not agree, and he did change his opinion after lengthy discussions, I need to rep him next time I see him post.
Unfortunately as I am sure most people who have read a few pages will realise this is a thread where a few people who have been here ages still butt heads, but mainly as a merge target for people who want to complain about the modes, mainly these days due to lack of research.
I think it's a fair synopsis, from a someone who has actually read every post in this (and the previous) thread (I saw it early, but it has been a mission). Damn, a lot were read on the bus but how many hours could I have played rather than read.
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Hmm, I know I've seen that idea in a more recent game, now what was it ????
Was it Tetris? no hang on DDO (no that was dragons and stuff) DDA rings a bell
heard that somewhere before, now what was the name of the only beta I ever bought, and bought a new PC for, give me a minute I will get it.So, enlightening me in some gaming history (thank you btw, always nice to be proven wrong
Almost like,switching modes, between free and Open PvP and more chilled PvE when it suited the player.....
Hmm, I know I've seen that idea in a more recent game, now what was it ????
I don't know, Shroud of the Avatar perhaps?
(I'm trying to remember other MMOs with open, free PvP that released in the last year and half, apart from the western release of ArcheAge and perhaps ED, and I'm drawing blanks. Most MMOs released recently have the open world be PvE-only, with PvP confined to Arenas or Battlegrounds. Which is something that was nearly unthinkable back when I started with MMOs.)
It's not always to save the game. WoW didn't need saving, for example. It's more that some 10–15 years ago the conventional wisdom was that, since playing in a PvP environment was "harder" than in a PvE one, PvP and PvE servers should be kept permanently segregated and even server transfers should never be allowed between different server types. Since then, devs became increasingly aware that allowing players to play together is more important than any silly notion promoting segregation.
Changing the rules of the game after launch is still uncommon, though. And with good reason, unless the change is nearly unanimously welcomed by the community it can be divisive. Doubly so when the change creates restrictions; look at the whole mess about flying not being allowed in WoW's last expansion for the sake of improved gameplay, for example, where player revolt about it was prevalent enough to be picked up by blogs and the specialized press, and how Blizzard is now going back and will allow players to fly there a little after the next patch.
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