Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Hyperlethal]

Are all MMOs PvP only?

no, some have raids, does this game?

also do any successfull MMOs have a solo mode?

 

[Jockey79]

no, some have raids, does this game?

Raids do not make a game "good".
I've seen MMOs who raid system is awful.

As you want to blatantly ignore the first few posts in the thread, I'll copy/past some information for you;

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

Some Dev comments from the Kickstarter;

View attachment 44183

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1681442#comment-1681441
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1705398#comment-1705397
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1705552#comment-1705551

From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01) Plus how the Galaxy will evolve over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18
"DB explicitly said that solo players would be able to do community goals, though back then they weren't called that. Dev Diary Video #2, at the 4:10 mark."

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/

Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously .


Dev comments;

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by Numi
Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.

No.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by Robert Maynard
Thanks for that clarity Michael.

Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?

We're not planning on changing that.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by mosh_er
Hi Micheal

I know you said that solo/group and open will always use the same universe, can you also say that there will be no specific perks in playing in one mode over another? i.e bigger profit from trading in open or bigger bounties?

None are planned at the moment.

Michael

Originally Posted by Alexander the Grape
In the newsletter, it was mentioned that an intersection between a trading power and a military power will result in piracy missions.

Will this make NPC piracy more profitable or will we continue to need to focus on players?

It can be more profitable, and it will apply to both players and NPCs.

Originally Posted by Adept
For fun

That said, it could be worth thinking about reducing the impact that solo & group players have on the political simulation.

Unlike community goals, Powerplay is a swinging balance - ie solo players are also balancing solo players.

The mechanics of powerplay, particularly the interface between player and power being an almost direct copy of the community goal model, gives the entire experience an MMO-guild type feel to the gameplay.


Is this MMO-style a new direction for Elite: Dangerous? Or will you be still focussing on the single player immersive experience, even if that single player is playing in a universe filled with other players?


Thank's very much to you and the FDev team for all of your efforts. One or two subjective niggles of mine aside the game is the one I've been waiting for for years and I'm totally enamoured with it.

We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too.

E3 2015 Interview (17th June 2015);

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...-e3-xbox-exclusives-and-qa-with-david-braben/


The overall thread topic (+ How XB1 fits);

On that last point, Producer Ben Dowie reiterated that Xbox One and PC players won’t be playing head-to-head—although they’ll be playing in the same simulated universe, they’ll never encounter each other in space, likely because Microsoft’s Xbox patch cycle adds complexity to Frontier’s game update procedure. This means that PC players and Xbox players will often wind up on different clients, which means no head-to-head play. To that end, anticipated PC-centric features will likely land on PC first.

And regarding the game design;

I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”

To highlight something from that above quote;


“You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play."

 

[SteveLaw]

player interaction requires it

Well yes, player interaction relies on other players. That's kinda obvious. But not everyone wants player interaction. But again you go on to describe the different player roles, none of which need player interaction.

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Risk is everywhere

Which negates your previous argument.

exactly, and iv always maintained that the galaxy, even occupied space is big enough for a player to find his own spot to play in and not be bothered by others when debating solo vs oen, there really doesnt need to be a solo mode just take a few jumps off the beaten path and you wont see anyone.

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Are all MMOs PvP only?

Some start off that way but I think most end up having to add it at some level. Many separate it lot more than ED though. Again, Darkwalker would be your go-to guy on this one.

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so where does this game stop being an SP/co-op and become player driven IE an MMO? because thats what its listed as

It's also advertised as a single player game. But it's interesting how you separate MMO from co-op. I'm interested to know how you can co-operate without it being a multiplayer game.

 

[PhazonAran]

so where does this game stop being an SP/co-op and become player driven IE an MMO? because thats what its listed as

It is a MMO, technically speaking. Does ED respects the traditionnal MMO codes ? Nope, kicked them right in the baby makers, just like Elite did in 1984.

 

[Hyperlethal]

It is a MMO, technically speaking. Does ED respects the traditionnal MMO codes ? Nope, kicked them right in the baby makers, just like Elite did in 1984.

Yes it is, and its a really good one, but solo/private isnt doing it any favors, and for what? to replicate the previous elite games? FD have done that already and those games are from older times. i would wager my anaconda that DB dreamed of filling the original elite world with players, and that this MMO has been his goal since day one but as long as solo play remains an option to those fearing a heft rebuy and grinding to a ship worthy of one the MMO will suffer, as iv said so many times the galaxy is big enough for everyone.

Im not saying traders should receive an extra reward for coming into solo, there shouldn't be a need for it, but as my original post was moved here from the how to get players in open PP thread (i really should have specified preperation/expansion missions) i see no simpler solution risk free or some extra dosh, or perk i dunno maybe decals somehow, lots of games offer rewards only obtainable through PvP

and just to clarify my premise, i use PVP to describe open play because private group is basically 4 man co-op and that does not constitute an MMO. I do say open play is PVP no matter what your doing because even when its not direct your still running that risk, pretty much any role is potentially the prey of another, you dont need to be hunting someone but rest assured someone out there is hunting for you and that is a fact of open play even if they never find you or like me just fail at it

 

[SteveLaw]

Yes it is, and its a really good one, but solo/private isnt doing it any favors, and for what?

Solo is to allow players the choice of not having any player interactions and Group is to allow them to limit it to specific players.

Private groups are not limited to 4 btw, the largest known Group, Mobius, currently stands at over 9000 members.

Are you also aware that in Open (as well as Group) you can never have more than 32 players in any one instance? In most cases it's probably more like 16.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yes it is, and its a really good one, but solo/private isnt doing it any favors, and for what? to replicate the previous elite games? FD have done that already and those games are from older times.

The previous games were all single player. What Frontier have offered in this incarnation of Elite is the freedom of choice for each and every player to "play the game how you want to" - we can choose to play Solo, with friends or in Open.

In the recent interview with Arstechnica at E3, DBOBE is drawn on gameplay:

I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”

and

There are no changes planned to separate solo and online saves, and players will continue to inhabit the same shared galaxy whether they’re in solo or multiplayer—again, continuing with Braben’s contention that there’s no ‘right’ way to play.

 

[smokingrabit]

I feel like some sort of hypocryte in action, im trading solo so I can get a clipper for piracy :/

I been doing the navy missions in open just because, Igot a cmdr to pick up bauxite then drop it again so it was solo, the navy missions were refreshing from grinding too.

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You could rent ships to other players and take a percentage, would be good for piracy too.

 

[Hyperlethal]

I feel like some sort of hypocryte in action, im trading solo so I can get a clipper for piracy :/

I been doing the navy missions in open just because, Igot a cmdr to pick up bauxite then drop it again so it was solo, the navy missions were refreshing from grinding too.

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You could rent ships to other players and take a percentage, would be good for piracy too.

This is a perfect example! the right way to give players a choice would be to seperate private group/solo from open or more traditionally a pve server and pvp server! that way trading to get a piracy clipper means your gunna get pirated along the way attracting everyone else into the fold (biounty hunters/police/etc) while those who just wanna play elite get to just play elite. no mess no fuss instead you get this^^ hopefully braben will soon come to his senses and realise that while there may be no "right" way there is deffinately a wrong way and thats to try and cater to "Every" way. ever heard that you cant have your cake and eat it?

But again, i saw a post about encouraging players into open, my suggestion found its way here! iv actually long come to terms with solo and open and happy hunting the few players i can find for now scarce as they may be, im not out to campaign for the whole game to change but thats my take on the subject, no one has to listen to it

 

[SteveLaw]

This is a perfect example! the right way to give players a choice would be to seperate private group/solo from open or more traditionally a pve server and pvp server! that way trading to get a piracy clipper means your gunna get pirated along the way

Not if they jump a few systems away like you suggested earlier. You can trade in Open well away from other players. What's the difference?

hopefully braben will soon come to his senses and realise that while there may be no "right" way there is deffinately a wrong way and thats to try and cater to "Every" way. ever heard that you cant have your cake and eat it?

He's had well over two years to "come to his senses" and yet only last week he was quoted very publically as still supporting the concept.

 

[Jockey79]

... i would wager my anaconda that DB dreamed of filling the original elite world with players, ....

So where can I collect that Anaconda from?

I've posted DBOBE words, you've chosen to ignore all that information and make a bet that is all ready lost by the information two posts up. Thanks for the free ship

 

[PhazonAran]

This is a perfect example! the right way to give players a choice would be to seperate private group/solo from open or more traditionally a pve server and pvp server!

PvPers shot this idea down when it was proposed. They were afraid that if modes explicitly labelled PvP and PvE were introduced, the majority would go into PvE and wouldn't bother to start again for the PvP mode.

hopefully braben will soon come to his senses and realise that while there may be no "right" way there is deffinately a wrong way and thats to try and cater to "Every" way. ever heard that you cant have your cake and eat it?

That's your opinion, based on what you think ED should be. So far, FD disagree with you and I am glad to be able to choose who I play with.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

It feels good that people are generally enjoying the AI update. There's much more on the way... Mama's teaching her little ones new tricks...
I'll also be trying to appease everyone by making the lower ranks fun for beginners while ramping up the higher ranks for the more experienced player. Tricky perhaps, but at the end of the day the aim is to make the game fun for everyone. Oh, BTW I'm loving my work! Perhaps it shows...

Good quote from Ms Avory there, and I for one am certainly enjoying being challenged by her AI update - I've had to do a Brave Sir Robin with my Cobra more that few times since 1.3 landed, and that's as it should be.

I don't know the first thing about software development, but I might venture to say that Ms Avory may well have one of the best jobs in the world.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

also do any successfull MMOs have a solo mode?

I'm no MMO expert, but I do know one: Elite Dangerous

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'm no MMO expert, but I do know one: Elite Dangerous

Shroud of the Avatar is flexi-player too.

Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues is a fantasy RPG that combines a single player narrative with a sandbox MMO created by a team that includes: Richard “Lord British” Garriott the creator of the Ultima series, Starr Long the Director of Ultima Online, and Tracy Hickman the author of Dragonlance

• Episodic Content: Five episodes of virtue based stories created by Richard Garriott and Tracy Hickman; supported by prequel novels starting with Blade of the Avatar.
• Single Player Offline Mode: Players will adventure through over 40 hours of story in an interactive world where their choices during ethical paradoxes have consequences.
• Selective Multiplayer Modes: You can also play with everyone in a single world with three different online modes (Single Player, Friends Only, and Open).
• Classless Character System: Vast customization options with hundreds of skills and spells in over 20 different skill trees.
• Player Driven Economy: Deep crafting system where the best items are made by players and player items are the main source of loot found in the game.
• Skillful Combat: A new way to prepare and fight in an RPG by building custom decks of skills and dynamically activating them in combat.
• PVP: Consensual with Open PVP flags, zones, and Guild Warfare.
• Pay Once to Play: No subscription fees. Each episode (released approximately annually) is a one time fee and everything in the game can be purchased with in game gold that can be earned (except for some exclusive backer rewards).
• Player Housing: Non instanced, finite, and embedded in the world with multiple group living options.
• Social: Full Guild System, Highly Active Community and Player Owned Towns.
• Crowd Sourced & Funded: Support the project by contributing content (and receive compensation) or by pledging (and receive exclusive rewards).
• Open Development: Players help shape the game by giving feedback on monthly early access releases, videos, weekly updates, blog postings, forums, chat, etc.

 

[SteveLaw]

Shroud of the Avatar is flexi-player too.

They call it "Selective Multiplayer" I think.

 

[Robert Maynard]

They call it "Selective Multiplayer" I think.

Indeed they do....

 

[Sim Maker]

Indeed they do....

Hello Robert, please don't take offence.....but I am sure I am not the only one here who is uncomfortable with a supposed un-biased Mod getting involved in the most heated debate surrounding this game and so obviously coming out for one side of the argument......
.
Should you really be posting your very "pro solo" views here under the Moderator badge?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Hello Robert, please don't take offence.....but I am sure I am not the only one here who is uncomfortable with a supposed un-biased Mod getting involved in the most heated debate surrounding this game and so obviously coming out for one side of the argument......
.
Should you really be posting your very "pro solo" views here under the Moderator badge?

As you are probably aware, Moderators are unpaid volunteers drawn from the Forum user-base and are not Frontier employees. Creating a duplicate account would incur an infraction.

Therefore, we still enjoy the same rights as other forum users to participate in forum discussions.

 

[ianw]

Hello Robert, please don't take offence.....but I am sure I am not the only one here who is uncomfortable with a supposed un-biased Mod getting involved in the most heated debate surrounding this game and so obviously coming out for one side of the argument......
.
Should you really be posting your very "pro solo" views here under the Moderator badge?

They only have to be unbiased in matters of discipline - their opinions about the game can be as biased and nonsensical as the rest of us - and we can contest their opinions freely - just not their mod rulings.