Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[fademist]

I'm sure many would, and have argued, that a game without "greifing" is content in and of itself. Like I also said, cargo delivery missions are a dime a dozens, they are not new content, by any means. All I was doing was repackaging it in a way to appeal to open players. You too can enjoy that content you just have to follow the rules as well otherwise it's cheating.

;o the cheating word up ....

 

[Angry Hornet]

Speak for yourself. The "golden egg" of ED for me, is Solo mode. Because I don't always (often) want social interaction. Without Solo I wouldn't have bought the game. First thing I asked "does it have single player option".

Totally agree. You've only got to look at the sub-moronic level of player here on this forum to appreciate why.

- - - Updated - - -

But this guy! This guy makes me feel good about myself. I love this guy.

You're welcome. Bzzzzzzzzzz........

 

[TruffleSnout]

Without Solo I wouldn't have bought the game.

Kudos. This will also be my first question when deciding whether to purchase Star Citizen upon release.

 

[xkjacob]

Right, some points to think about;

1) Be as OCD about words and meanings all you like - but that does not explain the "Intent" of the EULA and what it was written for.
2) As much as any game developer would like, under no law can an EULA be used to tell you how to use your router or the router supplied by an Internet Service Provider, and EULA is only valid for the software it ships with, no matter how broadly it is worded. (For example, if FD tried telling someone how to use their cable modem or used their own software to control it, the ISP and/or owner of that modem could complain that FD are in fact tampering with their hardware and sue them).
3) Compare the EULA from FD with that of Apple's iPhones, or Microsoft Windows - heck, even the bicycles for public use in London (UK) have a bigger EULA by far (over 30 pages to use a bicycle !!) - the EULA for Elite: Dangerous is woefully shallow and broad (some may argue, it reflects the game ) and needs fleshing out - not that anyone but us seems to have read it

And, finally;

4) The game is geared towards the individual (how you came to another conclusion is beyond me). The main tag line for the game is "Play your way" - it is not *Play their way*
....The game is about each of us, personally and how we as individuals have an impact on the galaxy around, hence why my impact is just as big in Solo, as it is in Mobius or Open.
....The game does allow of groups of players to have an impact on it, together - but it is not the cornerstone of the game.

A couple misconceptions you have.
1 & 2. The EULA is not to enforce how your router or hardware is configured. It is to rescind your lisence when you breach their terms. Configure your hardware however you want, but you may not use their software on it. Your purchased a license for a game with terms, breach them and void your license.

Common mistake. They can dictate the usage of their product. In the EULA it clearly tells you, you are not forced to use their product which is the remedy if you want to block p2p with your router or do any other breaches of the EULA.
3. User agreements don't have to be monstrosities and because this is a relatively new EULA. It has the clause they may change it at any time adding content for clarification. Currently it seems to be pretty clear.
4. Marketing phrases you may entirely dismiss. Dude you must love mcdonalds their phrase is "I'm loving it". Those tag lines are just receptive sound bites. The fact is without multiplayer and additional activities this game is pretty boring. Multiplayer is one of the most profitable options in gaming. Inevitably they will need to bend a knee to fleshing it out. That is precisely what powers is and the reputation system sort of. Powers make it so the galaxy changes based off large player activity which effectively silences the single player and powers effects solo, group and open. Were you a single player pirate in an anarchy zone? Too bad so sad your pirate group lost a civil war and now it is federation.
You are not forced to participate, but the world will change around you and an individuals influence is lost to hordes of others participating.
So the individual was so important we silence them across the solo, group and open in favor of a population of players.

* edit when I say ED golden egg is something I mean cash cow. Their profit center. Where they will make money for working in. It has no bearing on whether you find it valuable. It is valuable in the game industry. Multiplayer is a cash cow in gaming.

 

[Jorlin]

A couple misconceptions you have.
1 & 2. The EULA is not to enforce how your router or hardware is configured. It is to rescind your lisence when you breach their terms. Configure your hardware however you want, but you may not use their software on it. Your purchased a license for a game with terms, breach them and void your license.

Common mistake. They can dictate the usage of their product. In the EULA it clearly tells you, you are not forced to use their product which is the remedy if you want to block p2p with your router or do any other breaches of the EULA.
3. User agreements don't have to be monstrosities and because this is a relatively new EULA. It has the clause they may change it at any time adding content for clarification. Currently it seems to be pretty clear.
4. Marketing phrases you may entirely dismiss. Dude you must love mcdonalds their phrase is "I'm loving it". Those tag lines are just receptive sound bites. The fact is without multiplayer and additional activities this game is pretty boring. Multiplayer is one of the most profitable options in gaming. Inevitably they will need to bend a knee to fleshing it out. That is precisely what powers is and the reputation system sort of. Powers make it so the galaxy changes based off large player activity which effectively silences the single player and powers effects solo, group and open. Were you a single player pirate in an anarchy zone? Too bad so sad your pirate group lost a civil war and now it is federation.
You are not forced to participate, but the world will change around you and an individuals influence is lost to hordes of others participating.

So if i got a "less than optimal" connection i'm also breaking the EULA?
Or if my wife decides to make some YT uploads on our line?
I don't think so...

The fact is without multiplayer and additional activities this game is pretty boring.

Not for me. So fact is this isn't a fact, just your opinion.

 

[xkjacob]

So if i got a "less than optimal" connection i'm also breaking the EULA?
Or if my wife decides to make some YT uploads on our line?
I don't think so...


Not for me. So fact is this isn't a fact, just your opinion.

I mean if your internet connection worked like that... It doesn't by the way.
No having a bad connection and maxing it out probably won't breach game play.
Purposefully throttling may however. That you would have to work out with your ISP, JUST LIKE I DID! Because... EULA
An internet connection will be required to access Online Features. You are responsible for all internet and other connection charges associated with your access to and use of any Online Features.

I like that you disagree with my facts.

 

[Jorlin]

I like that you agree with my facts.

In fact i don't.
I can't remember a single line of your statements that i would agree with.
I don't even agree that anything you said is a fact.

You are stating your opinion and that's fine by me.
Nothing more.

 

[xkjacob]

In fact i don't.
I can't remember a single line of your statements that i would agree with.
I don't even agree that anything you said is a fact.

You are stating your opinion and that's fine by me.
Nothing more.

Well, get off your tuff and go ask frontier development. They are who you signed the EULA with. Compare the responses they give you to what I told you.

Seems easy enough.
*I can't turn autocorrect off on my.phone in this forum, so it changes every other word. Makes posting insanely difficult.

 

[Jockey79]

A couple misconceptions you have.
1 & 2. The EULA is not to enforce how your router or hardware is configured. It is to rescind your lisence when you breach their terms. Configure your hardware however you want, but you may not use their software on it. Your purchased a license for a game with terms, breach them and void your license.

Common mistake. They can dictate the usage of their product. In the EULA it clearly tells you, you are not forced to use their product which is the remedy if you want to block p2p with your router or do any other breaches of the EULA.
3. User agreements don't have to be monstrosities and because this is a relatively new EULA. It has the clause they may change it at any time adding content for clarification. Currently it seems to be pretty clear.
4. Marketing phrases you may entirely dismiss. Dude you must love mcdonalds their phrase is "I'm loving it". Those tag lines are just receptive sound bites. The fact is without multiplayer and additional activities this game is pretty boring. Multiplayer is one of the most profitable options in gaming. Inevitably they will need to bend a knee to fleshing it out. That is precisely what powers is and the reputation system sort of. Powers make it so the galaxy changes based off large player activity which effectively silences the single player and powers effects solo, group and open. Were you a single player pirate in an anarchy zone? Too bad so sad your pirate group lost a civil war and now it is federation.
You are not forced to participate, but the world will change around you and an individuals influence is lost to hordes of others participating.
So the individual was so important we silence them across the solo, group and open in favor of a population of players.

* edit when I say ED golden egg is something I mean cash cow. Their profit center. Where they will make money for working in. It has no bearing on whether you find it valuable. It is valuable in the game industry. Multiplayer is a cash cow in gaming.

Lets break this down for you.

1 & 2) A "license" for software, does not entitle a company to become God over you and your ISP or your hardware. As long as you are not modifying their software, or reading data out of it, they cannot enforce anything else - any attempt to do so, results in lawsuits being filed and bad publicity for them. So yes, I can configure my router to block all P2P, I can turn uPNP off - FD cannot do squat about it. For all I know, my ISP could be blocking people, as I know my ISP does block connections they don't like or consider harmful, who will FD blame then, as not all blocked connections are down to me?

3) Yes, they do - because any "grey" areas or any ambiguities go against the people who wrote the document - in this case FD. FD did not write "You may not block peer to peer connections, you must have Universal Plug and Play active" - without that in there, 3c and 4.4 are too broadly written and can be dismissed with ease. So while those words are not in there - FD cannot defend against it, they wrote the EULA, it is up to them to keep it updated and worded properly.

4) In the UK, your marketing is never dismissed - if I told you I was selling you a red car, but gave you a yellow one - I'm in trouble, by law. I believe in America it is called "Bait and Switch" and is also a crime there. FD, is an English company and I'm an English citizen. Therefore they are bound to supply the game they marketed and sold to me. So the tagline "Play your way" is very important indeed.

1.3 is also just as valid for Solo players as it is for Group and Open - saying otherwise is just showing your narrow mindedness.

 

[Jorlin]

Well, get off your tuff and go ask frontier development. They are who you signed the EULA with. Compare the responses they give you to what I told you.

Seems easy enough.
*I can't turn autocorrect off on my.phone in this forum, so it changes every other word. Makes posting insanely difficult.

Nope, don't need to.
I think i'll keep responding to your posts for a while so you can tell us how the world is.
Your statements really help us to understand...
Not that it helps your cause, most likely the opposite.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Speak for yourself. The "golden egg" of ED for me, is Solo mode, because I don't always (often) want social interaction. Without Solo I wouldn't have bought the game. First thing I asked was "does it have single player option".

When I don't want to interact with people I let my guns do the talking for me

 

[Jockey79]

Nope, don't need to.
I think i'll keep responding to your posts for a while so you can tell us how the world is.
Your statements really help us to understand...
Not that it helps your cause, most likely the opposite.

I love these "know it alls" - who think they are the only interpretation of local and international laws and we should all bow to their will.
They fail to understand that ToS and EULA documents are written to be ambiguous on purpose, as it gives companies wiggle room on the interpretation of it.
He also has failed to read the Kickstarter information and DDA on the intent for the game - forcing people into Open mode goes against the way this game was designed and FD will not do it, so it is a pointless argument anyway, but ho hum - it's Friday night and I'm not in the Pub

 

[xkjacob]

Lets break this down for you.

1 & 2) A "license" for software, does not entitle a company to become God over you and your ISP or your hardware. As long as you are not modifying their software, or reading data out of it, they cannot enforce anything else - any attempt to do so, results in lawsuits being filed and bad publicity for them. So yes, I can configure my router to block all P2P, I can turn uPNP off - FD cannot do squat about it. For all I know, my ISP could be blocking people, as I know my ISP does block connections they don't like or consider harmful, who will FD blame then, as not all blocked connections are down to me?

3) Yes, they do - because any "grey" areas or any ambiguities go against the people who wrote the document - in this case FD. FD did not write "You may not block peer to peer connections, you must have Universal Plug and Play active" - without that in there, 3c and 4.4 are too broadly written and can be dismissed with ease. So while those words are not in there - FD cannot defend against it, they wrote the EULA, it is up to them to keep it updated and worded properly.

4) In the UK, your marketing is never dismissed - if I told you I was selling you a red car, but gave you a yellow one - I'm in trouble, by law. I believe in America it is called "Bait and Switch" and is also a crime there. FD, is an English company and I'm an English citizen. Therefore they are bound to supply the game they marketed and sold to me. So the tagline "Play your way" is very important indeed.

1.3 is also just as valid for Solo players as it is for Group and Open - saying otherwise is just showing your narrow mindedness.

I don't even know where to start man.
They aren't god over you. They have requirents for their usage. You bought the lisence with the agreement. I guess go take business law I. This is a pretty simple contract.
8.2 The Online Features are provided over the internet as provided by Frontier. You acknowledge that the Online Features are provided by Frontier at its discretion and may be terminated or otherwise discontinued by Frontier at any time.

This means it doesn't matter. If you can't conform, refuse to, they don't need a cause of action to sever you from multiplayer.

3. Precision isn't really necessary until issue. Which means, you'll get an update to this document, agree to it and then you breach and they enforce. It is a good thing this is small and vague, but it has the ability to get larger and more precise and that isn't a problem that is how this document functions.

4. So you are telling me in the UK your car salesmen can't make statements like "this is a good car" or "this car is reliable". The statement is not an expression of warranty or product. It is salesmen fluferage. We have bait and switch in America but that relates to do words that have meaningful descriptions to the product. Like the year of a 1990 mustang or its mileage, but nothing about it being a great car or being good to take the family out in. Only terms that can boil down into precise descriptors. "Play your way" could mean multiplayer, single player, group any and all and FD isn't responsible for any non conformity of those play styles.

Please just ask them. I am getting tired of autocorrect screwing up my posts explaining this.

 

[Angry Hornet]

There's this fantasy called an "EULA", and then there's reality. You do what the hell you damn well want to.

 

[xkjacob]

Nope, don't need to.
I think i'll keep responding to your posts for a while so you can tell us how the world is.
Your statements really help us to understand...
Not that it helps your cause, most likely the opposite.

Well I am open you to you confirming and I encourage you to do so.
I hope you know that I'd really like you to, for your own personal benefit.
Understanding the EULA is important.
If you don't trust me, then find someone who you are comfortable with explaining these things to you.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

(c)

From the EULA
If your router blocks p2p you are violating 4.4 if your purposefully did so you breach the cheating clause 3c.

Please read the EULA, in my culture it is rude to ask someone to do something you could do for yourself.

You are not permitted to
use cheats, automation software, hacks, mods, or any other unauthorized software designed to modify or defeat the purpose or experience of the Game

4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature.

That is the single worst interpretation of a cookie cutter DDOS clause that I've ever seen.

To the rest of the forum, I promise you that there is nothing FD or any publisher can do to anyone for changing their router settings. As a matter of fact, without logging into your router with your admin password, the highest level check that can be performed is a rudimentary network address check to see what translations you are allowing.

To hear some people talk in the forum, FD is producing malware that invades every nook and cranny of your private and/or protected space, and it's simply not the case. I swear, half these posts read like they were written by freshman marketing majors that just learned about FUD.

 

[Jockey79]

Understanding the EULA is important.

No, it is not - if Elites EULA was any more grey - they'd have to rename it Gandalf.

Once they update it to be more specific, then it will be taken seriously.

- - - Updated - - -

That is the single worst interpretation of a cookie cutter DDOS clause that I've ever seen.

To the rest of the forum, I promise you that there is nothing FD or any publisher can do to anyone for changing their router settings. As a matter of fact, without logging into your router with your admin password, the highest level check that can be performed is a rudimentary network address check to see what translations you are allowing.

To hear some people talk in the forum, FD is producing malware that invades every nook and cranny of your private and/or protected space, and it's simply not the case. I swear, half these posts read like they were written by freshman marketing majors that just learned about FUD.

Come on, you must admit, it is at least slightly entertaining

 

[Jorlin]

Well I am open you to you confirming and I encourage you to do so.
I hope you know that I'd really like you to, for your own personal benefit.
Understanding the EULA is important.
If you don't trust me, then find someone who you are comfortable with explaining these things to you.

EULAs are nothing new to me, thanks.
And i know what i can do and what i can't do.

And you don't really seem to have any idea about the technical aspects or the reality of ISPs, networking and broadband availability.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

Come on, you must admit, it is at least slightly entertaining

Shhhh, the know it all kid hasn't questioned my legal creds yet. This could get really entertaining.

 

[Jockey79]

I don't even know where to start man.
They aren't god over you. They have requirents for their usage. You bought the lisence with the agreement. I guess go take business law I. This is a pretty simple contract.
8.2 The Online Features are provided over the internet as provided by Frontier. You acknowledge that the Online Features are provided by Frontier at its discretion and may be terminated or otherwise discontinued by Frontier at any time.

This means it doesn't matter. If you can't conform, refuse to, they don't need a cause of action to sever you from multiplayer.

3. Precision isn't really necessary until issue. Which means, you'll get an update to this document, agree to it and then you breach and they enforce. It is a good thing this is small and vague, but it has the ability to get larger and more precise and that isn't a problem that is how this document functions.

4. So you are telling me in the UK your car salesmen can't make statements like "this is a good car" or "this car is reliable". The statement is not an expression of warranty or product. It is salesmen fluferage. We have bait and switch in America but that relates to do words that have meaningful descriptions to the product. Like the year of a 1990 mustang or its mileage, but nothing about it being a great car or being good to take the family out in. Only terms that can boil down into precise descriptors. "Play your way" could mean multiplayer, single player, group any and all and FD isn't responsible for any non conformity of those play styles.

Please just ask them. I am getting tired of autocorrect screwing up my posts explaining this.

I was ignoring, but nope - so much wrong.

Try reading up on Consumer Rights and look up Ethical Business practice - all for the UK.

FD will not just ban people without a solid legal reason, heck known cheaters are only getting a "shadowban" as UK Laws cover consumers more than they do businesses.
So stop trying to act like Gods gift to Law, as you've not read up on ANY of it and know nothing about UK Laws so it would seem.

My point in case;

"3. Precision isn't really necessary until issue." - yes, yes it is. You have NEVER been in an English court room. They throw cases out for spelling errors, and they use the terms Mens Rea and Actus Reus and awful lot. Which is why, if something is not PERFECTLY clear, in wording AND intent (which our EULA is not) then an English court will side with the player - EVERY TIME.

As for 4, again, read up on legal and illegal marketing (for the UK) - big leap from "Play your way" to "Do as your told because xkjacob once read a legal poster somewhere and wants everyone in his game world"