The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[Stigbob]

That is your personal opinion, not mine.

I didnt pretend it was anything else, am I wrong about any of those things ?.

Iam not comparing, i just said that it is unrealistic that it will end like these games. For 5 bucks still on steam unfinished and without further development.

I am comparing, I'm comparing the funding levels. $114 million has been wasted on SC with not even a working alpha to show for it, I'm wondering just how polished LOD would be with the same amount of resources. I suspect Derek Smart would use more of the money on the game and not hollywood cut-scenes and multiple studio moves and builds, the flight model Derek designed would be fantastic (if inaccessible without a manual). With that much cash Derek could also contract out the UI and the manual solving what I think is his greatest weakness accessibility (and I'm speaking as a manual reader and a player of some of his games).

 

[Clawhammer]

I am comparing, I'm comparing the funding levels. $114 million has been wasted on SC with not even a working alpha to show for it,

There IS an alpha version out for this game. And this alpha serves what an alpha should serve. When does this black and white seeing ends? No this alpha is not shiney, polished and total awesome without any drawbacks. But otherwise it is not garbage too. There are a lot of people enjoying it. Or is CIG running out of money because of it? Is there any proof that the ship is sinking? I mean, if this alpha would be really that bad where is the big     storm? Where is the big boom?

Iam sorry for you that you do not like it, but fact is there is currently no proof or fact that cig is making this extrem mistakes that turns this game into the total abyss. (Of course, i dont want to say they are perfekt and make no mistakes, but not that big mistakes.)

Currently they are delivering, faster then ever. And if they continue this way we will have in a few years a game that can compete with games like elite on the same level.

I'm wondering just how polished LOD would be with the same amount of resources.

Not a single bit better, he would use this money to hire personal to attack people on twitter with mutiple accounts.

 

[Soopyyy]

They're delivering garbage.
If frontier release a game with missions that bug out occasionally the community loses its mind. CIG release an utterly broken, missing asset core game module and people praise it like its the Pope... I don't get it.

 

[Stigbob]

There IS an alpha version out for this game. And this alpha serves what an alpha should serve. When does this black and white seeing ends? No this alpha is not shiney, polished and total awesome without any drawbacks. But otherwise it is not garbage too. There are a lot of people enjoying it. Or is CIG running out of money because of it? Is there any proof that the ship is sinking? I mean, if this alpha would be really that bad where is the big storm? Where is the big boom?

Is that official now, and I mean GIC official not backer made up on the spot stuff. Can we expect to never again see the excuse "it's a pre alpha" rolled out to explain all the terrible bugs and the jankiness of this sub-standard rubbish.

In that case I think the alpha release of star citizen is woefully shoddy and an indicator that this game is broken beyond any chance of redemption.

Is there any proof that the ship is sinking?

The ships were actually sinking CIG forgot about the water level in their botched crysis map.

Iam sorry for you that you do not like it, but fact is there is currently no proof or fact that cig is making this extrem mistakes that turns this game into the total abyss. (Of course, i dont want to say they are perfekt and make no mistakes, but not that big mistakes.)

No need to feel sorry for me be glad I didn't waste money on it.

Currently they are delivering, faster then ever. And if they continue this way we will have in a few years a game that can compete with games like elite on the same level.

That'll never happen unless they go bust and get bought out.

Not a single bit better, he would use this money to hire personal to attack people on twitter with mutiple accounts.

Yet you are the one crow-barring him into a conversation about SC. Your inability to discuss the game without launching personal attacks on Derek Smart has no bearing on his competence as a developer, he was publicly thrown out of the SC customer base for correctly predicting some of the problems they now find themselves experiencing.

To me that indicates he would have done a better job.

 

[milligna]

Iam sorry for you that you do not like it, but fact is there is currently no proof or fact that cig is making this extrem mistakes that turns this game into the total abyss. (Of course, i dont want to say they are perfekt and make no mistakes, but not that big mistakes.)

So how big a mistake was Star Marine and the Illfonic boondoggle? How big a mistake was building several different mocap studios but using the most expensive facility in the world for it in London instead? How many millions did each of those mistakes cost and what is the dollar value of a "big mistake."

How many more big mistakes until maybe there's cause for concern you think? how many more blown release dates, estimations, vague promises?

 

[MaxLexandre]

There IS an alpha version out for this game. And this alpha serves what an alpha should serve. When does this black and white seeing ends? No this alpha is not shiney, polished and total awesome without any drawbacks. But otherwise it is not garbage too. There are a lot of people enjoying it. Or is CIG running out of money because of it? Is there any proof that the ship is sinking? I mean, if this alpha would be really that bad where is the big storm? Where is the big boom?

Iam sorry for you that you do not like it, but fact is there is currently no proof or fact that cig is making this extrem mistakes that turns this game into the total abyss. (Of course, i dont want to say they are perfekt and make no mistakes, but not that big mistakes.)

Currently they are delivering, faster then ever. And if they continue this way we will have in a few years a game that can compete with games like elite on the same level.

Yeah, there is one incredible effort by some to downplay everything as much as possible. "It's garbage because i said it", hear by it's one fact, not one opinion. Do what now...

The game keeps updating, improving and releasing new features at a faster rate than anytime before, remember when PU development had been put on maintenance "to focus on SQ42"?
The game will speak louder than all the drama at the end, until then, let the storm rage on!

 

[Clawhammer]

Yeah, there is one incredible effort by some to downplay everything as much as possible. "It's garbage because i said it", hear by it's one fact, not one opinion. Do what now...

The game keeps updating, improving and releasing new features at a faster rate than anytime before, remember when PU development had been put on maintenance "to focus on SQ42"?
The game will speak louder than all the drama at the end, until then, let the storm rage on!

Well said, even if some people here dont want to understand that because they painted everythink black.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Have CiG given any indication that they are on track to release SQ42 this year. I recall CR being very pointed on the BBC interview that they needed to get it to market this year.

I know nothing is leaking from CiG in this regard. Will the next reveal be at Britizencon?

 

[milligna]

Have CiG given any indication that they are on track to release SQ42 this year. I recall CR being very pointed on the BBC interview that they needed to get it to market this year.

I know nothing is leaking from CiG in this regard. Will the next reveal be at Britizencon?

Yes, I was blathering along similar lines earlier - if they WERE within striking distance, wouldn't CR be in "it's right around the corner" mode? I think they'll do a cheesy S42 cutscene trailer soon at E3 emphasizing their GALAXY OF AMAZING STARSSSSS, perhaps ending in COMING THIS WINTER. All coinciding with another concept sale and free fly week. Then this winter at the Con of Citizens... another trailer and a 2017 release date.

It sure would be nice if actual journalists would just ask him outright is it coming out this year. And if not, why. Otherwise a clothes store and a few more flyable ships with nothing to do on them as 2016's progress will look pretty bleak.

 

[VidarSnipes]

I can agree that 2.4 have brought quite significant changes, even if just on the surface (as it is impossible to say how deep the changes really are). But what changed with 2.1-2.3, besides some cosmetic changes, a ship or two and a bit of bug-fixing? The main problem I see with SC, besides the reality being inadequate in comparison to lofty promises, is the instability I've seen, both in youtube clips and firsthand during free fly weeks. FPS weapons being ineffective inside physics grids, which changed to them being ineffective outside those grids. People still can fall out of a ship at any time, the movement is laggy and jerky, heavy ships behave as if they were made out of balsa wood, there are apparently some problems with >>USE<< prompt when in moving ships, and as mentioned earlier, hit detection inside leaves something to be desired even in the best case scenario. To my untrained eye those are significant problems, deep in the code, which I doubt can be fixed by a patch or two. Oh, and I don't see what's the problem with Derek Smart, unless he breaks into CIG offices at night and replaces large chunk of code with self-admiring poetry.

 

[lysan]

I do not belive that cig will ever make the game that everyone is hyped. Because it is hyped to the moon.

But after all progress, i dont see any reason why someone should belive it will end like line of defence or any other never released low budget steam early acccess games. That is in the same way unrealistic as the dream hyped version.

However these games are made with just a fraction of money and developers compared to SC, tiny but important difference.

 

[Stigbob]

Well said, even if some people here dont want to understand that because they painted everythink black.

The game does speak for itself. It's shoddy. It's late. It's not much of an evil conspiracy to mention that.

 

[MaxLexandre]

I can agree that 2.4 have brought quite significant changes, even if just on the surface (as it is impossible to say how deep the changes really are). But what changed with 2.1-2.3, besides some cosmetic changes, a ship or two and a bit of bug-fixing? The main problem I see with SC, besides the reality being inadequate in comparison to lofty promises, is the instability I've seen, both in youtube clips and firsthand during free fly weeks. FPS weapons being ineffective inside physics grids, which changed to them being ineffective outside those grids. People still can fall out of a ship at any time, the movement is laggy and jerky, heavy ships behave as if they were made out of balsa wood, there are apparently some problems with >>USE<< prompt when in moving ships, and as mentioned earlier, hit detection inside leaves something to be desired even in the best case scenario. To my untrained eye those are significant problems, deep in the code, which I doubt can be fixed by a patch or two. Oh, and I don't see what's the problem with Derek Smart, unless he breaks into CIG offices at night and replaces large chunk of code with self-admiring poetry.

That's exactly the point of why the Alpha is not getting actual content expansions, yet ongoing work into finishing, improving, fixing and polishing the mechanics they have, that desperatly *need* that. Over more deep engine refactor as persistence, IS 2.0 and so on that are rolling into it on this, and future updates. So it's not about expanding Crusader right now, not at all. The mechanics around do are getting updates and other improvements over updates, issues with FPS inside ships comes from a bug-fix that allows FPS combat inside ships on 2.4, now they have to fix the issues that came from that as well, it's all ongoing work, and some of this more complex game mechanics aren't bound to be simple bug-fixes, yet something that also requires functionality.

Well said, even if some people here dont want to understand that because they painted everythink black.

Well, if it fits the bias, it's about the message one wants to transmit or is bound to, it's going to influence the narrative. In all truthfulness, i believe that even with a successful released SC game, some people will keep going on about how bad and awful it is, because it won't be a perfect game. I could bet on that, there'll always be something to be a critic of, if you want to be one.

 

[ianw]

Well, if it fits the bias, it's about the message one wants to transmit or is bound to, it's going to influence the narrative. In all truthfulness, i believe that even with a successful released SC game, some people will keep going on about how bad and awful it is, because it won't be a perfect game. I could bet on that, there'll always be something to be a critic of, if you want to be one.

Well that goes without saying - everyone will have their own metric for like/dislike - as far as "success" is concerned that will be judged in time by the majority opinion of the public in general.

At that point either the ultra fans or the ultra detractors will find themselves on the "wrong" side of general opinion.

It's an odd situation at the moment in that the thing that is publicly being worked on is the thing that most agree will be the last thing to release whereas SQ42 is still shrouded in mystery to the general public because spoilers.

Is there any indication as to what bugs are common to both modes - or in other words how many of the issues that we are currently seeing are mostly down to multi-player/online factors?

 

[VidarSnipes]

That's exactly the point of why the Alpha is not getting actual content expansions, yet ongoing work into finishing, improving, fixing and polishing the mechanics they have, that desperatly *need* that. Over more deep engine refactor as persistence, IS 2.0 and so on that are rolling into it on this, and future updates. So it's not about expanding Crusader right now, not at all. The mechanics around do are getting updates and other improvements over updates, issues with FPS inside ships comes from a bug-fix that allows FPS combat inside ships on 2.4, now they have to fix the issues that came from that as well, it's all ongoing work, and some of this more complex game mechanics aren't bound to be simple bug-fixes, yet something that also requires functionality.

The point is, 2.1-2.3 offered neither significant fixes to main issues (people phasing out of ships, really wonky physics in general, terrible FPS weapon hit detection), nor new features. 2.4 was somewhat better when it comes to features, though the pace of development seems really slow when you think how much work the game needs to reach acceptable feature set and quality.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Is there any indication as to what bugs are common to both modes - or in other words how many of the issues that we are currently seeing are mostly down to multi-player/online factors?

No, but the gameplay mechanic should be mostly the same, if they develop some of this stuff to put on SQ42 as the main focus, then the PU team grabs this features and implements it on the Alpha, the issues can be different depending of how this flows.

The point is, 2.1-2.3 offered neither significant fixes to main issues (people phasing out of ships, really wonky physics in general, terrible FPS weapon hit detection), nor new features. 2.4 was somewhat better when it comes to features, though the pace of development seems really slow when you think how much work the game needs to reach acceptable feature set and quality.

I don't see the issues you listed much on physics, yet overall on Collisions, clipping through buildings or ships as your character is one, hit detection on FPS is another, up to ships, where specially the collisions of your ship + environment can be buggy.

 

[Prince Thrakkath]

They're delivering garbage.
If frontier release a game with missions that bug out occasionally the community loses its mind. CIG release an utterly broken, missing asset core game module and people praise it like its the Pope... I don't get it.

I have noticed this for a long time. Don't forget the cash factor. People are in with CIG for hundreds to thousands of dollars, some have interests in grey market reselling and don't want to be left holding a stock of worthless ships. There is huge emotional and financial bias at play when it comes to CIG and Star Citizen and while its not a cult per se the behaviour of its most fervent backers is the definition of cult like behaviour(my leader can do no wrong and will guide us into the light).

As for Frontier and ED, backers by and large have at most a couple of hundred spent on the game and usually much less so they get the usual expectations and criticisms heaped on them as any other game. They don't get special treatment.

 

[MarktJones]

I like the really scary ramp they are all very wary of that claims the first kill anyway. They have broken new ground in the area of deadly furniture.

"Why am I spinning?"

Okay, there are several answers to this question. The quickest is probably, 'a series of poor decisions.'

 

[Clawhammer]

I have noticed this for a long time. Don't forget the cash factor. People are in with CIG for hundreds to thousands of dollars, some have interests in grey market reselling and don't want to be left holding a stock of worthless ships. There is huge emotional and financial bias at play when it comes to CIG and Star Citizen and while its not a cult per se the behaviour of its most fervent backers is the definition of cult like behaviour(my leader can do no wrong and will guide us into the light).

As for Frontier and ED, backers by and large have at most a couple of hundred spent on the game and usually much less so they get the usual expectations and criticisms heaped on them as any other game. They don't get special treatment.

Of course, these people are hyping it to the moon (Elite has these people too, like any other game), but the reality is.

Alpha VS Final Version.

If i get an alpha i know it is unfinished and buggy, but iam happy that i can test brand new stuff. When i get something that is a final version, i expect a mostly bug free version. So a bugged final version get more critism.

There are different expectations between final and alpha versions.

 

[Stigbob]

Of course, these people are hyping it to the moon (Elite has these people too, like any other game), but the reality is.

Alpha VS Final Version.

If i get an alpha i know it is unfinished and buggy, but iam happy that i can test brand new stuff. When i get something that is a final version, i expect a mostly bug free version. So a bugged version get more critism.

There are different expectations between final and alpha versions.

Nope there certain basic levels of playability you expect from early access (however it's labelled), I have three early access games on the go currently and they all exceed SC in terms of quality and playability. None of them are 5 years old or as highly funded and none of them are as heavily marketed.

Compare SC with other flight sims and it's terrible broken pap.

Compare it against other early access games and it's terrible broken pap.

The logical conclusion is it's well marketed terrible broken pap.