The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[StuartGT]

Honestly, can we get a more senior moderator to take a look at this thread? It has become basically a SA soapbox and outlet for a competitor of your companies game to damage another company via fraudulent actions. Urging them for mass chargebacks for example.

Thank you.

Edit:

All other feel free to report this but I also demand that the matter is brought to a Frontier Ltd. employed supervisor of the moderation team.

I doubt Frontier Ltd.'s former management would particularly care, seeing as these forums are property of Frontier Developments PLC.

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I've seen stuff that says that the entire script has been leaked. Is that confirmed or denied?

Here is the initial section (first chapter maybe?) leak of Sq42 script: http://pastebin.com/G8fNs8dT

It's not exactly Shakespeare...

 

[Mu77ley]

Here is the initial section (first chapter maybe?) leak of Sq42 script: http://pastebin.com/G8fNs8dT

It's not exactly Shakespeare...

Bit of an understatement. It's not even up to Hollyoaks standards...

 

[eminus]

You can always kindly leave to the comforting Citizen worshiping forums on RSI. And once the game is complete return here on triumphant wave of vindication

edit: the full Star Citizen experience will be with us around the same time that our closest star (the Sun) goes supernova (approximately 3 billion years hence)

*Paarp*

 

[AlPilg]

Bit of an understatement. It's not even up to Hollyoaks standards...

I can't believe you just admitted to watching Hollyoaks. [wacko]

 

[Bruce Warren]

To be fair there were only four channels back when it started. Beggars, choosers and all that.

Edit:

I can't believe that I just looked it up. I blame the Thargoids. They've been messing with my head. That's what it is. Nothing to do with the last Onionhead shipment. No sir.

 

[DeathsKnell]

People have been disappointed by and critical of CIG and SC for years, long before Derek Smart's infamous articles. I backed SC in early 2014, and was hugely disappointed by Arena Commander. I have long criticized their monetisation model, not so much the ship rewards themselves, but the continual drive for money, including the revolting referral program, that has led to a spiral of mismanagement. A responsible company would have stopped taking funding when they had enough to make the game they had planned. They would then be able to plan project properly, with constraints. Instead CIG expand the game to meet backer cash flow, resulting in huge wastage.

I think they should have built up the SC universe over several games, increasing in scope as the team got more experience, and the fan base would follow. Instead CR got greedy, and deluded, saying he would make the equivalent of 4 AAA games for less than the price of one.

My main interest was SQ42, which I saw as a spiritual successor to Wing Commander, and a narrative experience that ED would never deliver. However, this has also become much less appealing as I learn more about it. It was clear that Mark Hamill was into it, but Gary Oldman looked confused and apathetic in his interview, and his speech was diabolical.

I would love SC to be good, and will not ask for a refund (I am an optimist and have seen glimmers of promise). A lot of Comcerned Citizens come from he same place, and are not SC haters. We focus on criticising particular disappointments (flight models, delays, reworkings).

I have been a fan of almost all of the Wing Commander series of games and of Freelancer. Heck, I can even remember when they said Freelancer was "vaporware" due to its promised release date of 2001. When it resurfaced in 2003 and released with a different feature set, it was received a lot of praise, it's metacritic was a 85. I played the crap out of it.

That said there is nothing wrong with being critical at all, its how one goes about doing so, that differentiates the good from the bad. I was not a backer till the latter part of 2014, I was aware of the initial kickstarter but decided to not buy in because to me, that game was, same old, same old, with the exception that it was a space game. I have grown tired of the games that come out, the playability only lasts for a short amount of time and I soon move on. When the scope increased, I became more and more interested. I said to myself, if he can pull this off, just think of what it can be. I bought in with a starter package.

People in general, look at things quite differently, I genuinely don't see a problem with the monetisation model and I will tell you why. No one needed to spend any more than $45, prior to the split to play either SQ42 (Single Player) or the multi-player game except that they had to be developed first. That to me, was a damn good price for both in my opinion. CIG has said so over and over...if you buy a starter package, all other ships will be available for in-game credits.

I have been a gamer all my life, and I can't tell you how many publishers have rushed games out the door before they were ready. After release, when they interview the development teams, it's pretty unanimous that they wished they had more time to finish the game the way they really wanted too. Heck even Derek wanted Take Two to not release Battlecruiser 3000AD when they did, because it was so buggy.

One of the benefits of crowd-funding a project is the removal of the publisher and immediate need for a return on the investment to the big money investors of the project. I really could care less how much time Star Citizen takes, as long as they get the job done and its enjoyable to play. Of course I don't want to see it be a "Duke Nukem" either.

I have had my doubts when the blockers started popping up, but when they started toppeling them one at a time I relaxed.

Until it's released, I occupy my time with other games that are out such as Elite Dangerous, Dreadnought to name a few.

I really don't know how familar you are with Gary Oldman, but when he interviews he is very sincere, professional and calm when he talks. Thats Gary Oldman, thats just how he is. Sorry but I didn't see the interview as apathetic at all, just sincere.

The vast majority that have backed Star Citizen really don't have a problem with CIG in general.

CR does have his flaws, heck everyone does, one of his just happens to be that he is a perfectionist.

Is CIG perfect? Nope.

Are they the rip off artists portrayed by a certain individual and his band of malcontents? Absolutely not.

They are simply busy developing the game.....

 

[1500]

I have been a fan with almost all of the Wing Commander series of games and of Freelancer. Heck, I can even remember when they said Freelancer was "vaporware" due to its promised release date of 2001. When it resurfaced in 2003 and released with a different feature set, it was received a lot of praise, it's metacritic was a 85. I played the crap out of it.

That said there is nothing wrong with being critical at all, its how one goes about doing so, that differentiates the good from the bad. I was not a backer till the latter part of 2014, I was aware of the initial kickstarter but decided to not buy in because to me, that game was, same old, same old, with the exception that it was a space game. I have grown tired of the games that come out, the playability only lasts for a short amount of time and I soon move on. When the scope increased, I became more and more interested. I said to myself, if he can pull this off, just think of what it can be. I bought in with a starter package.

People in general, look at things quite differently, I genuinely don't see a problem with the monetisation model and I will tell you why. No one needed to spend any more than $45, prior to the split to play either SQ42 (Single Player) or the multi-player game except that they had to be developed first. That to me, was a damn good price for both in my opinion. CIG has said so over and over...

I have been a gamer all my life, and I can't tell you how many publishers have rushed games out the door before they were ready. After release, when they interview the development teams, it's pretty unanimous that they wished they had more time to finish the game the way they really wanted too. Heck even Derek wanted Take Two to not release Battlecruiser 3000AD when they did, because it was so buggy.

One of the benefits of crowd-funding a project is the removal of the publisher and immediate need for a return on the investment to the big money investors of the project. I really could care less how much time Star Citizen takes, as long as they get the job done and its enjoyable to play. Of course I don't want to see it be a "Duke Nukem" either.

I have had my doubts when the blockers started popping up, but when they started toppeling them one at a time I relaxed.

Until it's released, I occupy my time with other games that are out such as Elite Dangerous, Dreadnought to name a few.

I really don't know how familar you are with Gary Oldman, but when he interviews he is very sincere, professional and calm when he talks. Thats Gary Oldman, thats just how he is. Sorry but I didn't see the interview as apathetic at all, just sincere.

The vast majority that have backed Star Citizen really don't have a problem with CIG in general.

CR does have his flaws, heck everyone does, one of his just happens to be that he is a perfectionist.

Is CIG perfect? Nope.

Are they the rip off artists portrayed by a certain individual and his band of malcontents? Absolutely not.

They are simply busy developing the game.....

It was vaperware because it was 18 months behind in 2000 and CR had run his company into the ground (they were out of money). Microsoft purchased it and kicked him off, then it still took them 3 years to get it finished, and that was with scrapping most of the feature creep that CR had added. So let that sink in, CR was stating that it would take 18 more months, but even cutting features it took 3 years. Does any of this sound familiar to what is currently happening? So you should be thanking the big publisher for the great game that you liked.

You talk about publishers rushing games out the door, and yet that is exactly what CR has gone on record as saying he did. CIG constantly rush broken half finished code out the door. The only difference is that its massively delayed before hand. CIG have yet to release anything of any quality, nothing is finished, nothing is polished, its all broken and WIP to be reworked because they screwed up the first time. Or they finally thought about how cargo was actually going to work.

No one is asking for an "immediate need for a return" but 1.5 years behind scheduled is hardly immediate. With next to none of the features implemented, and the features that are there are buggy and broken. 1.5 years after the original release and CIG does not have a single system (out of 100) done, they do not have a single location finished (out of 400 they stated). CIG are so far behind and so in the weeds that they have to make a big deal out of implementing basic server data storage, something that any online multiplayer has. Something that no company but CIG would brag about having, as its just so common, sure it was a big deal back in the 90's when CR released his last game, but this is 2016. They have not even gotten persistence into the game, and are making a large chest pounding sound about how hard that is, SC is supposed to be a MMO, persistence is the base line for that. Do you see other company crowing about adding persistence to their MMO? No of course not, because it is a basic necessity.


Gary Oldman was payed by CIG to work on SC, do you really think he would bad mouth them? Of course not he is a professional (something sadly you can't say about CIG who constantly bad mouth their past employee's).

If they are busy developing a game then why was CR on vacation instead of working on it? Why is he on vacation instead of presenting it to the worlds largest gaming convention? You don't sacrifice your product and company in order to go on vacation. If he was too busy to go to E3 then he is too busy to go on vacation. And before someone says he deserves a vacation, why? He has not produced anything, his only product is almost 100% behind schedule. He is taking vacation on the backers dime.

If they are busy developing the game then were is all the work they have done? There is very little progress from them, so what is going on?

 

[frank n beans]

I have been a fan of almost all of the Wing Commander series of games and of Freelancer.

Same here.

Heck, I can even remember when they said Freelancer was "vaporware" due to its promised release date of 2001. When it resurfaced in 2003 and released with a different feature set, it was received a lot of praise, it's metacritic was a 85. I played the crap out of it.

Yes, and that release that had a good metacritic and you played the crap out of happened despite Roberts, not because of Roberts. If it were up to Roberts you'd have literally gotten nothing. That isn't a red flag?

That said there is nothing wrong with being critical at all, its how one goes about doing so, that differentiates the good from the bad. I was not a backer till the latter part of 2014, I was aware of the initial kickstarter but decided to not buy in because to me, that game was, same old, same old, with the exception that it was a space game. I have grown tired of the games that come out, the playability only lasts for a short amount of time and I soon move on. When the scope increased, I became more and more interested. I said to myself, if he can pull this off, just think of what it can be. I bought in with a starter package.

Very different, you and I, on that front. Because I was a backer in 2013 and as the scope kept increasing and increasing and increasing it became less and less interesting to me. Because I've followed a lot of games that tried to be all things to all people and not a single one has succeeded.

People in general, look at things quite differently, I genuinely don't see a problem with the monetisation model and I will tell you why. No one needed to spend any more than $45, prior to the split to play either SQ42 (Single Player) or the multi-player game except that they had to be developed first. That to me, was a damn good price for both in my opinion. CIG has said so over and over...if you buy a starter package, all other ships will be available for in-game credits.

Yes. No one needed to. Except if they hadn't they'd be at less than half the funding they have now. What are the chances they could deliver on all their 64m dollar promises with nothing more than 64m dollars? Zero. Guaranteed. It's literally a fact.

One of the benefits of crowd-funding a project is the removal of the publisher and immediate need for a return on the investment to the big money investors of the project. I really could care less how much time Star Citizen takes, as long as they get the job done and its enjoyable to play. Of course I don't want to see it be a "Duke Nukem" either.

And that "job done" and "enjoyable to play" is very much in question. I don't think they can do it.

I have had my doubts when the blockers started popping up, but when they started toppeling them one at a time I relaxed.

Lol, you relaxed because they toppled a few blockers when they haven't implemented more than about 10% of the game. Buckle up, buttercup, it's gonna get a lot worse while they're trying to implement the next 90%. Not to mention that even their basic engine is still NOWHERE near where it needs to be, and that's not an opinion, that's a fact. Still haven't implemented the backend to control the instancing, still getting terrible frame rates, still have nowhere near the number of people in an instance to be considered anything close to an MMO.

The vast majority that have backed Star Citizen really don't have a problem with CIG in general.

Souce?

CR does have his flaws, heck everyone does, one of his just happens to be that he is a perfectionist.

Oh, yeah just like I said at my last job interview? Do I have a flaw? Of course I do, it's because I work too hard and care too much about the company I work for!

Are they the rip off artists portrayed by a certain individual and his band of malcontents? Absolutely not.


They are simply busy developing the game.....

Simply busy developing the game. And maybe doing so in a completely incompetent manner that will result in it being a massive failure.


No one with a brain is saying that they're not working on the game at all and are just scamming people wholesale. The thing is that once any endeavor starts going up, there becomes a tipping point where prior to that everything was good faith and peaches and ice cream, and after the tipping point everything literally becomes "we need more money and maybe we can pull this out." And then later "we need more money and maybe we can prolong the inevitable." And then in some cases "If we can keep pulling in some more funds every month we can stay out of jail a bit longer." I.e. at some point it goes from being a legitimate endeavor, to a scam. Where on that scale CIG is, is subject to debate. Even CR wouldn't really know, tbh. He can't perfectly predict future funding, can he? Personally I think they've tipped past the good faith point. Which is why they've started talking about "minimum viable products" and denying refunds and putting all their faith in a sucsesful SQ42.

 

[dsmart]

That actually support DS claim that RSI site is not reporting the correct numbers, as they say 1.3 MIO. backers and if in best case its "only" 800.000.

Interesting.

The citizen number is fabricated; as is the funding chart (btw May funding cratered; and I expect the trend to continue). Multiple sources have said that the number is close to 500K.

 

[Asp Explorer]

The citizen number is fabricated; as is the funding chart (btw May funding cratered; and I expect the trend to continue). Multiple sources have said that the number is close to 500K.

Hang on a minute - if the funding chart is fabricated, why did they bother cratering it?

 

[swfanatic717]

The citizen number is fabricated; as is the funding chart (btw May funding cratered; and I expect the trend to continue). Multiple sources have said that the number is close to 500K.

If the funding chart is fabricated, why are you using it as proof that funding cratered?

EDIT: Ninja'd by Asp Explorer...

 

[danjlynch1978]

Hang on a minute - if the funding chart is fabricated, why did they bother cratering it?

Going by the book, hundreds could seem like thousands ;-)

e: Entirely possible to be fabricated as far as being representative of backer funding - maybe some lines of credit or loans found their way in there also...

 

[dsmart]

*Mod hat off



Hope you realize how silly all that sounds for readers that have seen:

Star Marine get postponed indefinitely, co-op drop in drop out cancelled, VR postponded indefinitely, private servers cancelled for release and relegated to the last very thing when many backers backed expecting to be able to train with friends/clan mates from day one privately, no word about the promised full translation and dubbing to other languages non French/German (i.e. Spanish translation/dubbing looks seriously at risk), recent confirmation by CR that not all stretch goals will be ready for release, statement by Ben Lesnick confirming there is a serious risk not all ships will be available for release, net code has been refactored 3 times and is still very deficient, assets pipeline is being refactored which is going to leave tons of former assets obsolete etc etc

Among all these significant shortcomings being cancelled or postponed indefinitely (some of them actually kickstarter promises) you are really saying things such as "NPCs will have actual lives they're living" and that NPCs will be "about to venture into lawless space for the first time."

Really. That actually has to rank up there along with procedurally generated birds and drink mixing mini-games.

Hope you forgive those not brainwashed by the CIG marketing machinery to be a bit sceptical of your nice story and dream.

I hear you though, and I really hope we get it all in the end.

You forgot one: SQ42 has been Star Marined and probably will never see the light of day as a complete project. If CIG survives, and it does, then it's a mid to late 2017 product.

 

[Asp Explorer]

You forgot one: SQ42 has been Star Marined and probably will never see the light of day as a complete project. If CIG survives, and it does, then it's a mid to late 2017 product.

So will we get a CR video where he tells us that SQ42 has been in the game all along and we're just not bright enough to appreciate it?

 

[dsmart]

Hang on a minute - if the funding chart is fabricated, why did they bother cratering it?

They now know that I know; because in a recent blog I indicated that I was writing a blog specifically about it. Complete with metrics. I said that back in April.

Also, from data analytics we posit that they are manipulating and fudging it the same way that they are the "citizens" count. Imagine if you will a scenario where you sell $5, then $3, then you put back $4 in the till. So that count, aside from melts and such, is not "new" money going in, but a combination of new and recycled money. Heck, we have charts which we see spike at intervals and by a certain amount; and we note is as a Red Flag.

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So will we get a CR video where he tells us that SQ42 has been in the game all along and we're just not bright enough to appreciate it?

No, you just won't see a game. Then CIG collapses.

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[Asp Explorer]

No, you just won't see a game. Then CIG collapses.

Well it's going to be interesting. I'm still not interested in a refund, and want to see what I eventually get. I'll be most upset if I don't get my space-ship USB drive though

 

[DeathsKnell]

You talk about publishers rushing games out the door, and yet that is exactly what CR has gone on record as saying he did. CIG constantly rush broken half finished code out the door. The only difference is that its massively delayed before hand. CIG have yet to release anything of any quality, nothing is finished, nothing is polished, its all broken and WIP to be reworked because they screwed up the first time. Or they finally thought about how cargo was actually going to work.

First of all it should be obvious that I stated "released games", Star Citizen is not a released game, it's still in development.
Polished ? That usually takes place at during beta in almost every game developed, why would this be any different ?

No one is asking for an "immediate need for a return" but 1.5 years behind scheduled is hardly immediate.

Really, it kind of seems like you are ?

With next to none of the features implemented, and the features that are there are buggy and broken. 1.5 years after the original release and CIG does not have a single system (out of 100) done, they do not have a single location finished (out of 400 they stated). CIG are so far behind and so in the weeds that they have to make a big deal out of implementing basic server data storage, something that any online multiplayer has. Something that no company but CIG would brag about having, as its just so common, sure it was a big deal back in the 90's when CR released his last game, but this is 2016. They have not even gotten persistence into the game, and are making a large chest pounding sound about how hard that is, SC is supposed to be a MMO, persistence is the base line for that. Do you see other company crowing about adding persistence to their MMO? No of course not, because it is a basic necessity.

It's obvious you are talking about the original kick starter pitched game with the 1.5 years statement. If you read my post I stated that I passed on the KS because, what was pitched was same old,same old in space. I wasn't interested in that game, I was more interested in the expanded version of that game and knew it would take significantly longer to develop, I guess you didn't. I am a realist.

Gary Oldman was payed by CIG to work on SC, do you really think he would bad mouth them? Of course not he is a professional (something sadly you can't say about CIG who constantly bad mouth their past employee's).

Again if you read what I was responding to what Dr Wookie stated "It was clear that Mark Hamill was into it, but Gary Oldman looked confused and apathetic in his interview, and his speech was diabolical, showing or feeling no interest, enthusiasm, or concern."


My response was "I really don't know how familar you are with Gary Oldman, but when he interviews he is very sincere, professional and calm when he talks. Thats Gary Oldman, thats just how he is. Sorry but I didn't see the interview as apathetic at all, just sincere."


Not sure what you are going on about with the payed by CIG when that's pretty obvious, but then you go on about CIG "bad mouthing" their past employee's, where did that come from ? Who was talking about that. But since you mention it, would you care to share evidence of such, or did you just make that up ?

If they are busy developing a game then why was CR on vacation instead of working on it? Why is he on vacation instead of presenting it to the worlds largest gaming convention? You don't sacrifice your product and company in order to go on vacation. If he was too busy to go to E3 then he is too busy to go on vacation. And before someone says he deserves a vacation, why? He has not produced anything, his only product is almost 100% behind schedule. He is taking vacation on the backers dime.


If they are busy developing the game then were is all the work they have done? There is very little progress from them, so what is going on?

I am not even going to respond to the vacation time/backers dime thing. lol Really ?


As to E3, I really don't see the importance or signifance at this time but thats just me.


Dude, I sure as heck don't care if you like it or not, backed it or didn't. My response was to Dr Wookie who responded to me previously, just as I have to you now...

 

[Voivod]

As to E3, I really don't see the importance or signifance at this time but thats just me.

You're releasing a game in 6 months and you're not going to show it to millions of people at the world's largest gaming convention??
...and you don't see the significance?

 

[1500]

First of all it should be obvious that I stated "released games", Star Citizen is not a released game, it's still in development.
Polished ? That usually takes place at during beta in almost every game developed, why would this be any different ?

Lots of companies finish and get mechanics "polished" or at least not broken in alpha. So why is SC so different?

Really, it kind of seems like you are ?

So you think 1.5+ years after the pitched release date, a date that was set for 3 years after development start is immediate? So a increase of 50% development time is is perfectly ok. Man I wish you were my costumer, could live off you for years and never deliver anything.

It's obvious you are talking about the original kick starter pitched game with the 1.5 years statement. If you read my post I stated that I passed on the KS because, what was pitched was same old,same old in space. I wasn't interested in that game, I was more interested in the expanded version of that game and knew it would take significantly longer to develop, I guess you didn't. I am a realist.

Does not matter what you were interested in, what matters is what CIG sold to people and what CIG promised as a product. How are you a realist? CR stated that it would not take longer over and over again. He took money off of those statements. Then he stated that with more money it would be developed sooner. Sorry but you can't change the tone after the dance as started. Then act like its normal when people complain. Lets see how you respond when CIG change the deal again and its no longer the game that you payed for.

I am not even going to respond to the vacation time/backers dime thing. lol Really ?


As to E3, I really don't see the importance or signifance at this time but thats just me.


Dude, I sure as heck don't care if you like it or not, backed it or didn't. My response was to Dr Wookie who responded to me previously, just as I have to you now...

[/QUOTE]
You do understand you responded on a public forum right? It was not a PM, as such it is open to anyone that wants to respond.

Your kidding about CIG and past employee's right? CIG like to blame them for anything that went wrong, heck the whole chairgate was just blamed on someone leaving (2 guess on who just left), then the FPS problems and how that was passed on.

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You're releasing a game in 6 months and you're not going to show it to millions of people at the world's largest gaming convention??
...and you don't see the significance?

Perhaps he does not follow games, and didn't know that it was such a major event? The reality is that E3 is major for a game that is supposed to release this year, this is how you get the word out, its how you set the stage for the coming months. Its major marketing and advertising across every gaming mag in the world for one price.

 

[Dr Wookie]

First of all it should be obvious that I stated "released games", Star Citizen is not a released game, it's still in development.
Polished ? That usually takes place at during beta in almost every game developed, why would this be any different ?



Really, it kind of seems like you are ?





It's obvious you are talking about the original kick starter pitched game with the 1.5 years statement. If you read my post I stated that I passed on the KS because, what was pitched was same old,same old in space. I wasn't interested in that game, I was more interested in the expanded version of that game and knew it would take significantly longer to develop, I guess you didn't. I am a realist.





Again if you read what I was responding to what Dr Wookie stated "It was clear that Mark Hamill was into it, but Gary Oldman looked confused and apathetic in his interview, and his speech was diabolical, showing or feeling no interest, enthusiasm, or concern."


My response was "I really don't know how familar you are with Gary Oldman, but when he interviews he is very sincere, professional and calm when he talks. Thats Gary Oldman, thats just how he is. Sorry but I didn't see the interview as apathetic at all, just sincere."


Not sure what you are going on about with the payed by CIG when that's pretty obvious, but then you go on about CIG "bad mouthing" their past employee's, where did that come from ? Who was talking about that. But since you mention it, would you care to share evidence of such, or did you just make that up ?





I am not even going to respond to the vacation time/backers dime thing. lol Really ?


As to E3, I really don't see the importance or signifance at this time but thats just me.


Dude, I sure as heck don't care if you like it or not, backed it or didn't. My response was to Dr Wookie who responded to me previously, just as I have to you now...

Hey, your quote from me says things that I never said, as evidenced by your previous post on this very page... infer much ?!

Also, FD's pre-release products have been extremely polished. I have played every alpha and beta of Elite Dangerous, and every alpha of Planet Coaster, and they all were fun to play as well as important test beds.

I appreciate your previous reply though