The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

[Adept]

I hope it helped.

My Arcadey Commander thread on the SC forum got to 61 pages before it was stopped, and there was even sort of thanks from Ben Lesnik to the participants.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/137450/arcadey-commander-chase-the-mouse/p61

I hope they listen

 

[M.E.A.T]

Yeah, i really hope they completely change the direction. I really like your OP in that thread, it was well put. If SC continue with this direction on catering mainstream casuals, i might as well go back and play WarThunder.

 

[Aleksej]

It also looks like they do not like to be criticized when they have done something very wrong.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It also looks like they do not like to be criticized when they have done something very wrong.

Why? Because they closed the thread? If so I think that is unfair. It was closed because there was nothing more to add and it was going round in circles and getting personal, something which causes closed threads here too.

It was closed but with the acknowedement that there were some good points made which would be looking into. What more do you want from them?

(Other than not making a primary mouse driven game in the 1st place )

 

[Bains]

You did really well with that post. And it served as a platform for a lot of early backers to say their piece.

Looking through the rest of the threads I still can't say I'm hopeful.

I take it as a really bad sign that the starting position is to convince them follow the mouse is a bad idea in the first place.

Right now at best I'm expecting War Thunder Arcade mode, where the joystick is serviceable but mouse aim will always have the advantage.

I suspect part of this is down to the fact that the devs are hardly old school joystick using PC sim fans themselves. I think a majority are from that generation that play using x box controller and mouse, making this an uphill battle.

Reading through threads this morning that invite the devs to ignore the 'elitist minority' of people who want stick controllers be at the center of the game. How the worm has turned.

Bottom line these are the problems you get when you first go after core gamers, and then turn around and court the mainstream. Normally core gamers would never buy into a mainstream game in the first place because of these fundamental differences in expectations.

And then on top of all this there's the issue with the fact it doesn't fly like WW2 plane in anycase.

 

[Jason S]

I want them to make a great game as I have purchased the aurora LN LTI game package.

We will see how much they change direction.

 

[Bains]

I want them to make a great game as I have purchased the aurora LN LTI game package.

We will see how much they change direction.

There're still selling LTI? If you ever want to upgrade to an LTI hornet let me know.

 

[warbaby2]

Bottom line these are the problems you get when you first go after core gamers, and then turn around and court the mainstream. Normally core gamers would never buy into a mainstream game in the first place because of these fundamental differences in expectations.

Well, you cannot really make a game of that sort to please every demographic... if there are simple controlls, the majority of people will use them, especially in competative scenarios. So, sure, CIG will build in proper HOTAS support, maybe even in the near future, but as long as the option for "I-klick-you-to-death" gameplay exists, whats the point? Problem is, now that it's in, the "casuals" (I hate that word) will move heaven and earth to keep it in...

 

[Jason S]

There're still selling LTI? If you ever want to upgrade to an LTI hornet let me know.

I got someone to upgrade it to LTI for me but it was a long time ago, don't think that option is still available, is it? In any event I do not want to spend any more cash on SC right now. But thanks for the offer of help.

 

[Bains]

Well, you cannot really make a game of that sort to please every demographic... if there are simple controlls, the majority of people will use them, especially in competative scenarios. So, sure, CIG will build in proper HOTAS support, maybe even in the near future, but as long as the option for "I-klick-you-to-death" gameplay exists, whats the point? Problem is, now that it's in, the "casuals" (I hate that word) will move heaven and earth to keep it in...

Absolutely. I get the feeling you always suspected it would end up like this. Me, and a lot of other early backers I know (I was in a very large early guild), we really believed his pitch about old school PC gaming space sim. I would never ever have bought into the game and set myself up for all this if I thought it would come to this. Being in a minority versus mouse gamers and a developer that will cater to the majority. Hell, I won't even play War Thunder and that's free!

I got someone to upgrade it to LTI for me but it was a long time ago, don't think that option is still available, is it? In any event I do not want to spend any more cash on SC right now. But thanks for the offer of help.

Dude, kind of happy you declined because I'm not sure I'd have been doing you any favors.

 

[Aleksej]

Why? Because they closed the thread? If so I think that is unfair. It was closed because there was nothing more to add and it was going round in circles and getting personal, something which causes closed threads here too.

It was closed but with the acknowedement that there were some good points made which would be looking into. What more do you want from them?

(Other than not making a primary mouse driven game in the 1st place )

Well, I wish it would stay open until next update. The threads with that much activity always attract attention. However, now it will just sink in to the bottom of the forum.

 

[warbaby2]

Absolutely. I get the feeling you always suspected the case. Me, and a lot of other early backers, we really believed his pitch about old school PC gaming space sim. I would never ever have bought into the game and set myself up for all this if I thought it would come to this. Being in a minority versus mouse gamers and a developer that will cater to the majority. Hell, I won;t even play War Thunder and that's free!

Well, yes and no... I guessed that all that PR bravado was covering up the fact that this game really was aimed at as broad a playerbase as possible, on the other hand I HOPED I was wrong... well, turns out my 20 years experience as a gamer/watcher of the industry didn't deceive me.

On a similar note, I also knew ED would be a conceptional success, althoug not as great a commercial one as SC is/will be.

 

[Aleksej]

Apart from the sucking flight model, I think this thread clearly demonstrates additional problem that most of the people have using joysticks and HOTAS:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...ith-the-controls-summarized-in-one-picture/p1

It seems to me that they are built-in sensitivity curves in the game. I have customized sensitivity curves in HOTAS software, which I use in ED. I have also set deadzones and re-calibrated my joystick so that it is impossible to improve the settings even further. So now AC amplifies my sensitivity curves even further and I lose analogue control over the axes. And everyone knows that using digital controls for the joystick is nonsense.

 

[Bains]

Well, yes and no... I guessed that all that PR bravado was covering up the fact that this game really was aimed at as broad a playerbase as possible, on the other hand I HOPED I was wrong... well, turns out my 20 years experience as a gamer/watcher of the industry didn't deceive me.

On a similar note, I also knew ED would be a conceptional success, althoug not as great a commercial one as SC is/will be.

20 years? I've been a gamer since the arcade hall era late 70s/early 80s and as skeptical as you like. It was the funding model and explaining it was his vehicle to allow him to make the game he always wanted without the publisher compromises that got me. But of course as it turned out that wasn't true. His goal turned out to be the same as the most commercial publishers out there, to make the most broadly appealing game he could. The rest is history. I actually did back elite at the same time. It was one of my all time favourite games but after frontier which I wasn't a fan of TBH, I wasn't sure how it would turn out.

Apart from the sucking flight model, I think this thread clearly demonstrates additional problem that most of the people have using joysticks and HOTAS:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...ith-the-controls-summarized-in-one-picture/p1

It seems to me that they are built-in sensitivity curves in the game. I have customized sensitivity curves in HOTAS software, which I use in ED. I have also set deadzones and re-calibrated my joystick so that it is impossible to improve the settings even further. So now AC amplifies my sensitivity curves even further and I lose analogue control over the axes. And everyone knows that using digital controls for the joystick is nonsense.

They haven't bothered with the joystick, its as simple as that.

 

[warbaby2]

20 years? I've been a gamer since the arcade hall era late 70s/early 80s and as skeptical as you like. It was the funding model and explaining it was his vehicle to allow him to make the game he always wanted without the publisher compromises that got me. But of course as it turned out that wasn't true. His goal turned out to be the same as the most commercial publishers out there, to make the most broadly appealing game he could. The rest is history. I actually did back elite at the same time. It was one of my all time favourite games but after frontier which I wasn't a fan of TBH, I wasn't sure how it would turn out.

Ok, yea, it's actually close to 30 years, counting the Phillips MSX and C64...

Let's say, I had my soubts...

 

[Aleksej]

They haven't bothered with the joystick, its as simple as that.

I tried using HOTAS so that I would be able to post comments basing on my personal experience in the game. So that no one would ask the question if I have even tried different controls. This makes AC unplayable for me for 2 reasons - flight model and built-in unmodifiable joystick deadzone/sensitivity settings.

I definitely can play with KB/M, but then what is the reason of having bought HOTAS specifically to play Space Sims.

 

[metatheurgist]

Well, you cannot really make a game of that sort to please every demographic... if there are simple controlls, the majority of people will use them, especially in competative scenarios. So, sure, CIG will build in proper HOTAS support, maybe even in the near future, but as long as the option for "I-klick-you-to-death" gameplay exists, whats the point? Problem is, now that it's in, the "casuals" (I hate that word) will move heaven and earth to keep it in...

Suddenly I'm so glad E: D doesn't have SC levels of backing. I think "casuals" should be called "the market", the people that want hard simulations are "niche" or "minority". We are not the market anymore.

 

[warbaby2]

Suddenly I'm so glad E: D doesn't have SC levels of backing. I think "casuals" should be called "the market", the people that want hard simulations are "niche" or "minority". We are not the market anymore.

Well, we haven't been for a long time, but once in a while, there are games for us... XCOM Enym Unknown, for instance.

On the HOTAS issue in AC: Call me spoiled, but after the perfect integration ED gave us, I simple cannot be bothered to go to lenghts to make my X-55 work properly with the game, and maybe even breaking it's flawless performance in other games in process... as long as CIG doesn't bother with it, I will not bother playing AC.

 

[Aleksej]

I have found an interesting thread there:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/141299/flight-model-combat-mechanics-and-why/p1

When I have read the OP's description how to modify flight model, I could only think of one thing - that besides having nerfed yaw we already have this flight model in ED.

Well, we haven't been for a long time, but once in a while, there are games for us... XCOM Enym Unknown, for instance.

On the HOTAS issue in AC: Call me spoiled, but after the perfect integration ED gave us, I simple cannot be bothered to go to lenghts to make my X-55 work properly with the game, and maybe even breaking it's flawless performance in other games in process... as long as CIG doesn't bother with it, I will not bother playing AC.

Check my earlier post:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=457416&postcount=13

This is exactly why I won't bother playing AC. I do not want to modify the perfectly working settings of my X55 to play this stupid game.

 

[warbaby2]

I have found an interesting thread there:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/141299/flight-model-combat-mechanics-and-why/p1

When I have read the OP's description how to modify flight model, I could only think of one thing - that besides having nerfed yaw we already have this flight model in ED.

Oh, it may very well be that there is a descent flight model somewhere in there, but it's very well hidden and burried under horrible controlls... and with simpler options (M&KB) many people simply will not bother.