The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

[Vargur]

Hehe your helping me then, Freelancer "failed" cause of short of money and then a big publisher came in and stripped the game down of main features for the saking of delivering it!

Since Star Citizen has no publisher and keeps making tons of cash were good to go

Freelancer was in development for 6 years, twice as long as what CR first anticipated the game would take to make.
It went over budget, although i'm not sure by how much.
And even so, in the end it still didn't deliver the scope CR was aiming for at the start of the project.

SC having no publisher is often regarded as an absolutely positive thing in the case of SC.
While this is true for the design aspect of the game, since you have complete freedom, it does bring issues for funding.
This time there won't be a publisher playing cash cow to bail out the game if CR spends all his cash before it is completed again.

 

[Sylvester Ink]

Are you really comparing building a mobile game with the detailed mmorpg world of SC??

Yes, I am. Because that's how game development . . . no, that's how SOFTWARE development works. You build the base functionality and add on the niceties, like graphics, art, music, sound, etc, afterwards.

And in your mention of Kingdom Come Deliverance is the perfect example. Had they built their castle "Lego" style, it would have taken them very little time at all to determine their size discrepency, and fewer resources would have been spent on rebuilding it.

One could say that CIG is doing that, after seeing some of their design videos, but the key there is that they are only doing it with regards to the modeling and design. What I'm referring to is actually plugging it into the game and playing it out there, not to look at the results, but to test the fundamental aspects of the game.

There's a livestream of PA where the devs showed their work on the pathfinding they were implementing in the game. At that time, they had no finished models, so the tanks consisted of boxes driving around the map. Not very pretty, but not only were they able to test out the fundamentals of their pathfinding system, but get a good estimate of things like tank sizes and color base.

CIG is not doing this with SC, instead designing the ships out as if it were a final design sprint and plugging those results into a game that has no functionality except to show them off. You can already see the trouble they've run into in the form of the bugs they create as they develop around this mess. (Many of the gameplay bugs I've seen them mention would be 100% easier to debug if they were playing a game that looked like pong.)

One can argue that their method is better for marketing, but in the end, if it's going to make a mess of your development process, then perhaps you need to reevaluate your priorities.

If this is how they did things with Freelancer, then its no surprised that the development of that game was such a disaster.

 

[Firemonkey]

Yes, I am. Because that's how game development . . . no, that's how SOFTWARE development works. You build the base functionality and add on the niceties, like graphics, art, music, sound, etc, afterwards.

And in your mention of Kingdom Come Deliverance is the perfect example. Had they built their castle "Lego" style, it would have taken them very little time at all to determine their size discrepency, and fewer resources would have been spent on rebuilding it.

One could say that CIG is doing that, after seeing some of their design videos, but the key there is that they are only doing it with regards to the modeling and design. What I'm referring to is actually plugging it into the game and playing it out there, not to look at the results, but to test the fundamental aspects of the game.

There's a livestream of PA where the devs showed their work on the pathfinding they were implementing in the game. At that time, they had no finished models, so the tanks consisted of boxes driving around the map. Not very pretty, but not only were they able to test out the fundamentals of their pathfinding system, but get a good estimate of things like tank sizes and color base.

CIG is not doing this with SC, instead designing the ships out as if it were a final design sprint and plugging those results into a game that has no functionality except to show them off. You can already see the trouble they've run into in the form of the bugs they create as they develop around this mess. (Many of the gameplay bugs I've seen them mention would be 100% easier to debug if they were playing a game that looked like pong.)

One can argue that their method is better for marketing, but in the end, if it's going to make a mess of your development process, then perhaps you need to reevaluate your priorities.

If this is how they did things with Freelancer, then its no surprised that the development of that game was such a disaster.

So your working in wich of the 5 Studios that are developing SC?

Wich of the 270 workers are you to know what are they working on or not working on?

You know nothing about game development if you think its not normal to have this "mess development" has you call it with errors and trials and fails in the first years of making a game! Its called making ground breaking in the game genre!

A game genre that´s been in the grave for the past 10 years.

But its payback time baby! Worlds colide!

Make through for Space Sims!

 

[MPC]

great games!

I was a bit late on the WC series, but I got them from GoG, but only had time to play the first one so far Also, damn I miss those old PC boxes. Nowadays we get those stupid plastic DVD cases

I made a vid of the hyperdrive effect in ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAunNfquZws It's probably the thing I enjoy the most so far in that game! Hope SC's jump effect will be as cool.

 

[Earthshine]

So your working in wich of the 5 Studios that are developing SC?

Wich of the 270 workers are you to know what are they working on or not working on?

You know nothing about game development if you think its not normal to have this "mess development" has you call it with errors and trials and fails in the first years of making a game! Its called making ground breaking in the game genre!

A game genre that´s been in the grave for the past 10 years.

But its payback time baby! Worlds colide!

Make through for Space Sims!

Pardon me for just jumping in but...

Seems a bit silly to call someone else out on their knowledge of game development (and for transparency I don't know anything about it) and not provide even a smidgeon of your own - personal - knowledge on the matter.

For what it's worth I agree with many of the (latter, it's a big thread) posts made here. I can't help but see SC as a bit like transformers....it's big, flashy, lots of "boom!" but at this point the substance is a bit thin on the ground, and yet it makes lots of money.

To be clear however, I really do wish SC to become a good game. It's successful already (by the most generally accepted metric anyway) but I hope it fleshes out into what is promised. I just wonder how long it will take and how many failures...redesigns...adjustments....and ultimately disappointments there will be along the way.

 

[Jenner]

Hope SC's jump effect will be as cool.

Well they did show a jump effect in the Freelancer commercial. No idea if this is what they're aiming for of course, but it was cool enough here.

http://youtu.be/vO7RxsZpcKc

 

[Tonberry]

You know nothing about game development if you think its not normal to have this "mess development" has you call it with errors and trials and fails in the first years of making a game! Its called making ground breaking in the game genre!

I'm an architect who works alongside software developers and the guy you quoted is bang on the money. Functionality should always come first.

However, I believe CIG have shown very little of what they are working on and the current combat builds are little more than prototypes to appease the backers.

If they truly are developing modules in silos, then they are in for a world of hurt down the line.

 

[Sylvester Ink]

So your working in wich of the 5 Studios that are developing SC?

Wich of the 270 workers are you to know what are they working on or not working on?

You know nothing about game development if you think its not normal to have this "mess development" has you call it with errors and trials and fails in the first years of making a game! Its called making ground breaking in the game genre!

A game genre that´s been in the grave for the past 10 years.

But its payback time baby! Worlds colide!

Make through for Space Sims!

I don't need to work for them to observe their development, especially since they are so "open" about it. (They aren't really that open, but they do give enough detail that someone with a decent amount of development experience can make some good inferences about their development process.)

As for my knowledge of game development, I do know quite a bit. And while I don't currently work in that field, I most certainly have experience with large and ambitious software projects, as well as how to manage them. At very least, it's enough that I can make the aforementioned inferences about SC, and they certainly aren't encouraging.

As for the genre being "dead," it may not have been in the mainstream, but there have been a decent number of space-sim games in the past decade. Starwraith alone has put out a good 10 or so games in just as many years. All of the games have been pretty ambitious, and they've all been made by 1 developer.

Heck, I'd almost be tempted to follow in his and Josh Parnel's footsteps and make my own space-sim, just to see what I could come up with without a budget, and in the same amount of time it's taken SC to get to this point.
But we already have ED and LT on the horizon, so it would be kind of redundant. Maybe I should do a 6dof game, like a Descent 4 first, since Descent 4 has been in limbo for so long.

 

[Renideo]

So your working in wich of the 5 Studios that are developing SC?

Wich of the 270 workers are you to know what are they working on or not working on?

You know nothing about game development if you think its not normal to have this "mess development" has you call it with errors and trials and fails in the first years of making a game! Its called making ground breaking in the game genre!

A game genre that´s been in the grave for the past 10 years.

But its payback time baby! Worlds colide!

Make through for Space Sims!

You know I have nothing against SC, and I have no intention of being critical of it. Really hope this is sarcasm though, the alternative is that you've internalised the PR a little too closely.

 

[Hermit]

edit: post I was responding to here has disapeared :S

edit2: No, wait, it was way back in the thread - nevermind

 

[Mu77ley]

You know nothing about game development if you think its not normal to have this "mess development" has you call it with errors and trials and fails in the first years of making a game! Its called making ground breaking in the game genre!

I know plenty about game development, being a professional software developer who's done it as a hobby for many years, and having friends who actually work in the industry in a variety of positions from programmers, designers, musicians to CEO. Between them they've worked for companies like Thalamus, Rockstar, Ubisoft, Bullfrog, Lionhead, Climax, MicroProse, Ninja Theory, Ruffian (and the list goes on, as a couple of them have been in the industry since the 80s).

Sylvester Ink is spot on the money. The way CIG are seemingly going about things is horrendously inefficient and wasteful of time, effort and resources.

 

[MPC]

Well they did show a jump effect in the Freelancer commercial. No idea if this is what they're aiming for of course, but it was cool enough here.

http://youtu.be/vO7RxsZpcKc

Yeah! I enjoyed that one, but I wonder how it will look "from the inside".

 

[Firemonkey]

Such talent here being wasted, maybe you should all gang up and make a mmorpg space sim with multicrew spaceship and what not.

I have zero experience in software/game dev. industry but i still can understand their vision and why they opted for that modular aproach and the focus on ship selling and gaining the max pledges from backers upfront.

Theres a reason it would be unthinkable 2 years ago that someone could raise 50 million $ from kickstarter, more unthinkable that it was to make a video game, and EVEN more unthinkable that it would be a Space Related Game, a dead genre for the masses and seen has non profitable.

CR had the vision of is Dream Game for a long time, and now that he has the means to do it his comitted to making it right like he allways wanted, no shortcuts.

Have some faith on the man, Let the game shape up before being so cynical and judgemental about stuff thats still far in the development stage!

Only time will tell if it was the right path to go, for now I have no reasons to think otherwise, and im happy with what has been delivered and shown.

My 100$ spent with SC is paid already! Its not just about the destination but the journey mostly,!

Seing this game growing is enjoyable has it is, the developments and excitements of new module revelations, new ships, new gamefeatures, wowing with the graphics / animations, watching my PC sweating whille playing just the tiny bit of the game.

The way i see it the more they game takes to realease the more ive saved to upgrade my machine

So all this:

Starting Hangar : Discount
Ship: Origin 300i - 3 Month Insurance
Starting Money: 1,000 UEC
Digital Star Citizen Manual
Squadron 42 Digital Download
Star Citizen Digital Download
Beta Access
Alpha Access
+

For 100$ its a bargain

 

[ykza5]

Such talent here being wasted, maybe you should all gang up and make a mmorpg space sim with multicrew spaceship and what not.

I have zero experience in software/game dev. industry but i still can understand their vision and why they opted for that modular aproach and the focus on ship selling and gaining the max pledges from backers upfront.

Theres a reason it would be unthinkable 2 years ago that someone could raise 50 million $ from kickstarter, more unthinkable that it was to make a video game, and EVEN more unthinkable that it would be a Space Related Game, a dead genre for the masses and seen has non profitable.

CR had the vision of is Dream Game for a long time, and now that he has the means to do it his comitted to making it right like he allways wanted, no shortcuts.

Have some faith on the man, Let the game shape up before being so cynical and judgemental about stuff thats still far in the development stage!

Only time will tell if it was the right path to go, for now I have no reasons to think otherwise, and im happy with what has been delivered and shown.

My 100$ spent with SC is paid already! Its not just about the destination but the journey mostly,!

Seing this game growing is enjoyable has it is, the developments and excitements of new module revelations, new ships, new gamefeatures, wowing with the graphics / animations, watching my PC sweating whille playing just the tiny bit of the game.

The way i see it the more they game takes to realease the more ive saved to upgrade my machine

Plus when the game comes out this will also come into play

Starting Hangar : Discount
Ship: Origin 300i - 3 Month Insurance
Starting Money: 1,000 UEC
Digital Star Citizen Manual
Squadron 42 Digital Download
Star Citizen Digital Download
Beta Access
Alpha Access

+

An awsome mousepad.

All this for 100$ its a bargain

Thing is most of the things you mentioned don't even exist so how is it a bargain? The game on release is supposed to be around $60, pretty dure you could get a mouse pad like that on ebay for les than 5 bucks. I pledge to the lowest tier waiting for something interesting to happen and well so far it hasn't and prices have since gone up, so I'll stay with my tiny aurora with a hangar and AC for $25 (now thats a bargain)

 

[Firemonkey]

Thing is most of the things you mentioned don't even exist so how is it a bargain? The game on release is supposed to be around $60, pretty dure you could get a mouse pad like that on ebay for les than 5 bucks. I pledge to the lowest tier waiting for something interesting to happen and well so far it hasn't and prices have since gone up, so I'll stay with my tiny aurora with a hangar and AC for $25 (now thats a bargain)

How come they dont exist? I walk arround my hangar everyday, I flew my Aurora and now my 300i everyday, i have alpha acess secured for the next years of development. Im set for life until the game arrives!

Did that package of 25$ gave you acess to alpha ? Will it give for future modules?

I bought the lowest package that gave me acess to beta + all alphas released.

Then upgraded my Aurora to the 300i + Bought the Mousepad.

So ive spent 65$ for game stuff and a 35$ mousepad that fits keyboard+mouse as i needed.

Seems a good deal im my book.

Also, please show me a link of a StarCitizen mousepad for 5$, I need another one.

 

[ykza5]

But will you still need to shell out +5$ everytime you want to try new modules?

I bought the lowest package that gave me acess to beta + all alphas released.

Then upgraded my Aurora to the 300i + Bought the Mousepad.

Also, please show me a link of a StarCitizen mousepad for 5$, I need another one.

No sir the package that I've pledged include all the alphas. Betas etc. I pledge last year around november. As for the miuse pad well just type space mouse pad on ebay search and you see lots of similar. Sorry but having the SC logo on it doesn't add any overall value to that kind of product (not for me at least)

 

[Firemonkey]

No sir the package that I've pledged include all the alphas. Betas etc. I pledge last year around november. As for the miuse pad well just type space mouse pad on ebay search and you see lots of similar. Sorry but having the SC logo on it doesn't add any overall value to that kind of product (not for me at least)

Almost same date as me, so you got yours for 35$/40$ the cheapest i think your mistaking your prices, im talking dollars here

Also these are razer goliath mousepads, and its not about the SC logo, its about the inspace ship design, also they made very few of these and are currently impossible to aquire.

I find them cool and worth the price, because im also helping the game get made

Also on another note, if you like Space Music, the Composer from Star Citizen is a countryman and a gentleman mostly!

Listen here -> Pedro Camacho , SC composer

 

[ykza5]

Almost same date as me, so you got yours for 35$/40$ the cheapest i think your mistaking your prices, im talking dollars here

Also these are razer goliath mousepads, and its not about the SC logo, its about the inspace ship design, also they made very few of these and are currently impossible to aquire.

I find them cool and worth the price, because im also helping the game get made

Also on another note, if you like Space Music, the Composer from Star Citizen is a countryman and a gentleman mostly! Pedro Camacho , loving is music!

Woops. Your are right my mistake it must have been $35 then (I do remember that there was a 5).

Im intrigued. What do mean about space music? Not that techno stuff there is for download at the sc fans forum I hope. Im really open to some good space music (country on space? Yeah sounds like me. Space trucker mostly on elite)

 

[Firemonkey]

Woops. Your are right my mistake it must have been $35 then (I do remember that there was a 5).

Im intrigued. What do mean about space music? Not that techno stuff there is for download at the sc fans forum I hope. Im really open to some good space music (country on space? Yeah sounds like me. Space trucker mostly on elite)

Thats the link, Pedro Camacho , SC composer

Thats the music for the several modules and also launcher etc

Also if you like space related music last Fan Spotlight showed some musics made by fans:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14105-Fan-Spotlight-Music-Volume-2

I like the first 2 a lot!

 

[ykza5]

Thats the link, Pedro Camacho , SC composer

Thats the music for the several modules and also launcher etc

Also if you like space related music last Fan Spotlight showed some musics made by fans:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14105-Fan-Spotlight-Music-Volume-2

I like the first 2 a lot!

Thanks for the link

For the future Im interestad in anything music related to SC but I don't like CIG forums so please feel free to post those here