I agree, no excuse at all, but remember, we don't understand the flight model, it's sooo realistic and awesome, it's seen as being bad! ...
The Star Citizen Thread v5
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I agree, no excuse at all, but remember, we don't understand the flight model, it's sooo realistic and awesome, it's seen as being bad! ...
It's almost as if they would have been better served by everyone flying around in grey boxes with some rudimentary moving parts (thrusters, mainly, if they really wanted to go that route) to figure out what works and what doesn't before designing a ton of ships that are supposed to behave with some kind of logic consistency based on how they appear.…
Not "as if", it's the way it's usually done. The way they haven't taken, because you know...it's more important to have flashy stuff luring in the money.
Yeah. Sometimes when I get a bit frustrated by speed FD rolls out updates I remember AC and SC Alpha PU. Then I understand it is very complex, and FD is actually quite reasonable with deliverable dates (although I want moar and faster, but I am just gamer in this case).
I agree, no excuse at all, but remember, we don't understand the flight model, it's sooo realistic and awesome, it's seen as being bad! ...
So all this talk of lack of mass, I guess that explains why it feels all wrong when he crashes into the pirate ship?
Yep, paper planes with massive thrust, no inertia, no feeling of momentum.
Major joke is that this issue was raised....2.5 years ago? I understand throw away build concept, still surprised it has never improved upon that.
You have to remember that the flight model is so good, it's just perceived as being bad
Mu77ley
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The problem is that they originally wanted to accurately model all the thrusters properly, unlike every other (sensible) game developer in existence, who ignore all that and design the flight model to get the handling they way they want it with the least amount of CPU overhead possible.
That's all very admirable (and good for Citizens who like to justify the delays being due to all this useless "fidelity"), but all the ships are designed purely from an aesthetic PoV by artists who clearly don't understand basic engineering principles, and so critical things like centres of mass, thruster placement, etc. are all hideously b0rken. So they end up having to fudge things worse than if they'd not bothered to start with.
This is a common theme with pretty much everything in Star Citizen where they over-imagineer things and make them stupidly and unnecessarily complicated, when a much simpler solution already exists, and then utterly fail to implement them. All in the name of miser^H^H^H^H^Hfidelity.
I'm going to do another comparison with sane early access game subnautica, I know some people get annoyed with this comparison but it's star citizen people are annoyed by default so scroll past if it annoys you. Or not whichever.
Here subnautica demonstrate the stages of developing the in game exosuit (stompy underwater mech).
Stage 1 concept art (they did not sell this to people for thousands of dollars):
Second stage very rough placeholder experimental in-game version (with mostly working features) for testing before finalization of the look and size.
Video of placeholder :
Current stage play-testing early access in-game version :
Image :
Video of somebody putting it through it's paces with upgrades :
Doesn't that make more sense than making the most fidelitious jpeg on the planet then finding out you can't dock it because it's too big for the bay ?.
Here subnautica demonstrate the stages of developing the in game exosuit (stompy underwater mech).
Stage 1 concept art (they did not sell this to people for thousands of dollars):
Second stage very rough placeholder experimental in-game version (with mostly working features) for testing before finalization of the look and size.
Video of placeholder :
[video=youtube;z1qIEJWrM0o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1qIEJWrM0o[/video]
Current stage play-testing early access in-game version :
Image :
Video of somebody putting it through it's paces with upgrades :
[video=youtube;p-g9NRxRY0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-g9NRxRY0E[/video]
Doesn't that make more sense than making the most fidelitious jpeg on the planet then finding out you can't dock it because it's too big for the bay ?.
Over-imagineer. I like it. I shall take note of it and make use of it in everyday conversation.
I posted it before, but it bears repeating: also, compare the process CIG is using with how a complex set-piece in Uncharted 4 has evolved. Note how they didn't start with what ended up being some of the most impressive and detailed — dare I say immersive — incidental environment interactions at the time, but with the core conceit of the entire section: driving a car over uneven terrain. Then they went on to try it with a specific type of car with a rough model attached. And only then did they start adding in all the gameplay-irrelevant fluff that makes it spectacular.
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I posted this elsewhere, but I think it's worth sharing here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5952vu/on_transparency_communication_and_expectations/
It's interesting to see citizens actively oppose these concepts, because "open development" apparently only means announcing future things CIG/RSI may or may not deliver, or (barring that) only announcing their triumphs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5952vu/on_transparency_communication_and_expectations/
It's interesting to see citizens actively oppose these concepts, because "open development" apparently only means announcing future things CIG/RSI may or may not deliver, or (barring that) only announcing their triumphs.
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A year ago a bunch of us formed a group called Parity trying to get them to address this which led to a deep dive post about adding different flight modes. We were all like: "okay...that's nice, but what we want is an explanation of what kind of flight experience are you wanting? Airplanes in space? IWar/IWar2 style newtonian? Mains centric like allegiance? Something in between like Diaspora? What experience are you after?" To this day they have never been able to explain what they are after. FDEV wanted to go for the Airplanes in space with some 6dof capabilities. They stated that from the beginning and they pretty well nailed it.
I remember downloading V.8 of Arena Commander and my first impression was it just wasn't right. It was hard to explain why, but eventually settled on it felt like when I tried playing Jedi Knight circa 1996 with a joystick before I discovered it was meant to be played with a MKB. Within a couple days deciding to sell ships & back Elite at Premium Beta. Downloaded the Beta of Elite and immediately the flight felt right from the get go. Problem is I'm not sure that V.8 still isn't one of their better flight models. When I fly my cutter I've got to watch how much thrust I apply so I don't over steer as even with modded thrusters it takes a few seconds to not only speed up, but slow back down again. In Star Citizen flying the Star Farer makes it seem like it is made out of tissue paper and has no feeling of mass or inertia at all.
I remember flying my first match of CQC when it hit beta and getting in pursuit of a target getting ready to duck behind an asteroid and having to actually think: "Should I pull lead pursuit to get a shot off, or go lag so I stay on his six?". In more than a year of playing in Arena Commander at that point I never once had to make that decision. That is a dogfighting decision about maneuvering. I have to make as much decision in Arena Commander as I do a FPS like Battlefield: what do I have to do in order to line up my cross hairs on target the fastest? That's all the decision making there is.
This is a very good post
Ah, the Star Citizen mensa candidates...
It's simple all right, it was fully funded at $65 million - why do they need ongoing funding? Getting taken for a ride on the turnip truck.
We just don't understand fully funded
Oh this brings back memories. There was a heated discussion about thruster articulation, and the whole point a number of people (including myself) were trying to drive home was that, ultimately, all you get is a force vector exerting a certain force on a body at a certain point (be that the CG, or someplace offset of the CG). That whole point was disputed to no end. And then, sometime later, we were told exactly this by CIG, and the very same point was then taken up by the fanboys. Which is all nice and well, except it's exactly what we've been saying all along.
This is the whole premise of SC - Graphics > Gameplay.
Or Fidelity > Everything.
We know nothing about the gameplay elements yet, and they are supposed to be coming soon[SIZE=1]tm[/SIZE]
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