The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Zyll Goliat]

So I guess it was indeed dead simple after all [rolleyes]

Chris Roberts
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/364217Erin Roberts


Very good move from CIG and also Amazon, Star Citizen longevity is secured with Amazon services (top dog in the cloud service) and Lumberyard that is accommodating the future of video-games, online & VR features. And since they have no capital problems they will for sure continue to invest in the engine at full-force while they can use Star Citizen as a flagship top AAA ambitious game to showcase their Lumberyard Engine.

Win Win for everyone except maybe the doom&scam preachers lol. Wonder why mr Agent leaker didn't saw this coming , must have been busy looking over the coffee machine [big grin].
And to anyone looking for an Idris or Polaris the Boxing Day Sale seems to be live right now! [up]

Orlando instead of you admiting that CIG had obvious problem with the CE and that´s why they actually decide to make a deal with Amazon and switch to LY you come in here with the "FORK".....Let me just remind you that it was HERE on FD forum that we have so many debates about the CE and we also had so many debates about the dodgy netcode XxX problems and issues that CIG never manage to solve,heck and there is that irony when Citizen @Rilzi make this thread https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/318617/should-cig-move-to-lumberyard-game-engine/p1
and that was almost a year ago.......I BET that you are one of those who voted agains LY back then right?
Sure I also see this as positive change and step in the right direction but let´s not forget that this is also proof and recognition that CIG was WRONG and that very same CIG was hiding and lying their backers in the so called open development for at least more then a year now.....

 

[darkoff]

So I guess it was indeed dead simple after all [rolleyes]

Chris Roberts
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/364217Erin Roberts

Erin Roberts
As you’ve (correctly) surmised, any suggestions that the engine switch would have a major impact on our development couldn’t be further from reality. Lumberyard is completely based on Cryengine, yet with a lot of improvements. As a consequence, we do not have to change the fundamental core engine at all which is why this change has had absolutely no effect on our development of Star Citizen.

The advantage of Lumberyard is that we get great ongoing support on the cloud / networking side from Amazon as well as great tools support while continuing uninterrupted development on what we have built up over the last 4 years. As we’ve tried to explain many times before, we have pretty much rewritten 50% of what we licensed 4 years ago now, even in core systems from Cryengine. What is great is that everything we have reworked, also now seamlessly integrates into Lumberyard, and the engine switch has not required any extra engineering time. We are actually very lucky that this opportunity presented itself to work with a powerful and committed company like Amazon that is investing heavily in its tech. This collaboration will effectively allow us to do more for our community going forward without costing us really anything in terms of engineering time or otherwise, so it is a win-win situation and good news all around.

Repped for that erin comment, but i would rather highlight different parts of it

As you’ve (correctly) surmised, any suggestions that the engine switch would have a major impact on our development couldn’t be further from reality. Lumberyard is completely based on Cryengine, yet with a lot of improvements. As a consequence, we do not have to change the fundamental core engine at all which is why this change has had absolutely no effect on our development of Star Citizen.


As we’ve tried to explain many times before, we have pretty much rewritten 50% of what we licensed 4 years ago now, even in core systems from Cryengine. What is great is that everything we have reworked, also now seamlessly integrates into Lumberyard, and the engine switch has not required any extra engineering time.

will effectively allow us to do more for our community going forward without costing us really anything in terms of engineering time or otherwise,

 

[Toumal]

Even on this subreddit thread I read these theories how we ridicule SC just because they definitely will destroy every other game in vicinity, ED included. Why this thought is so persistent? What they gain from it?

It was the same with NMS: I was told that I'm "just a hater". The ED players are "just worried about their game getting kicked in the butt". We all know how that ended.
And lo and behold, I got a nice deal on it, and they delivered a reasonably substantial patch. What a hater I am.

The issue that SC has, which NMS did not, is that a lot of people have a lot of money riding on the hype remaining at full strength for as long as possible.

And that is worrying.

The engine switch has not required any extra engineering time.

That statement simply cannot be true. I'm sorry. You can tell me that the switch was easy, and I admit I don't know Lumberyard myself. But according to CIG themselves they rewrote large parts of CE and turned it into StarEngine.

While such a switchover may well have been less work than some believe, you simply cannot tell me that this switchover didn't take any extra time.

That statement coming from Erin is extraordinary.

 

[Tippis]

So I guess it was indeed dead simple after all [rolleyes]

Not really, no, as an actual programmer — to say nothing of the actual timeframe of the switch — has confirmed.

Also, please use spoiler tags to minimise the image spam.

I think ED community had similar issues, but released game helps. We all have invested time and money into ED, but we also got finished game in the end. So many players feel they got worth out of it.

When ED launched we just wanted Elite 4. We didn't think it will save PC gaming, or that it will be VR king (ED didn't promise VR support during Kickstarter, CIG did in fact), or that there will be XBO or PS4 version, or that there will be landings at release. Ambition is something you prove with your work not you declare right out the bat. You don't declare 'teh best game ever', you make it and make players to judge it afterwards.

That's probably true — I don't keep track of the ED community as much, because I keep hurting my face whenever some '84:er makes a passionate “screw you; got mine”-argument about how tedium is good and keeps the plebs in place.

But the other part is really what soured me, not so much on SC but on Chris. What mystifies me is why and how the backers so adamantly refuse to investigate that part of the equation. Sure, he made a couple of decent game in the early '90s, but so did Schaefer and Molyneux — look at what reputation they've built for themselves since. But Chris made the same grandiose promises back then, and it didn't really pan out… ever. The WC series was just a classic Amiga genre transported to the PC; SC was technically interesting but poorly implemented and delivered late, so it didn't stand up to other flight sims; and of course Freelancer was so grandiose that he had to be removed from the project altogether.

So when he comes back and starts making the same promises all over again, why would anyone even begin to think that he can do it this time when his half-dozen previous attempts all failed (for very similar reasons)? If they didn't know about his reputation, then I could understand it, but he's appealed to those who really should know his history.

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

They would have as much of a "problem" with CE network just like they had with it's planetary/proc gen rendering capabilities.

Nobody said that Cryengine was ready from the get go to make Star Citizen, no engine was actually and they knew that they would have to make heavy changes to it so that they can make the game they want to make. What I've read here and in other "negative/cynic" filled threads was that since Chris Roberts went with CryEngine that Star Citizen was doomed from the get go, that they would never be able to have large map zones (wrong), never would be able to have seamless planetary landings (wrong), never would be able to have more than 20 people online (wrong) etc etc...

There are many options to take when you are faced with "problems", it's never the "end of the road" as some would like to make it seem so. They talked about going with Google Servers before (not a promise guys, just and intention at the time). They revised that and went with Amazon and I'm 100% fine with it. After all they are the professionals, it's not some random forum poster that I will listen over experienced trained professionals lol

Amazon is filthy rich and is investing heavily in the entertainment industry so it's the perfect partner imo!

Also I don't know if it's related but Star Citizen is currently with 3k~ viewers on twitch lol, not bad for a "no game" hein. [praise]

 

[Dooguk]

So let me ask this. If it's the same engine almost, but just uses different servers, how does this speed up development? [???]

 

[Zyll Goliat]

That statement simply cannot be true. I'm sorry. You can tell me that the switch was easy, and I admit I don't know Lumberyard myself. But according to CIG themselves they rewrote large parts of CE and turned it into StarEngine.

While such a switchover may well have been less work than some believe, you simply cannot tell me that this switchover didn't take any extra time.

That statement coming from Erin is extraordinary.

Unless if they realize that their co called Star Engine is just a messy and then decide to throw most of their work in the recycle bin and go for the clean LY....in that case transition could be very easy........

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That statement is very similar to statements I have heard from totalitarian regimes - and no, I DO NOT IMPLY CIG IS ONE (it's for those SC backers who read this) - because it has same 'everything is easy peasy, everything is cool, we are not late, we just didn't waste our time developing our engine, so don't question our decisions' feel. It doesn't mean transition wasn't easy - no - but way that PR piece is put together is clearly not honest. It is pure and utter damage control. And that's what disgusts me.

Honest answer would be - yes, we ran into corner with our engine, yes we found that Amazon did some work for us so yay, it means less work. That's why we switched over and spent some months converting code, and that's why are running late.

That's why SC is sleezy for me - they always have angle of selling more ships and digital content. Everything that threatens it - including truth - won't be told to backers. It is simple as that.

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

So let me ask this. If it's the same engine almost, but just uses different servers, how does this speed up development? [???]

Because Lumberyard already strengthened (and keeps on doing so) some of the core flaws of base CryEngine aka Network and by integrating StarEngine into Lumberyard they get the benefits of all that work while maintaining everything they worked before, 64 bit, physics grid etc

Q. Is Lumberyard based on CryEngine?

Lumberyard is made up of proven technology from CryEngine, AWS, Twitch, and Double Helix. We’ve hired some of the best game technologists in the world, who have already made over 996 additions, fixes, and improvements to Lumberyard. For example, we've integrated a brand new networking layer, GridMate, so your engineers can more easily build low-latency multiplayer games with large numbers of players. We’ve introduced Cloud Canvas, which enables your engineers and technical designers with little to no backend experience to build live online game features, such as community news feeds, sharing scores, and server-side combat resolution, in minutes using Lumberyard’s visual scripting system. We’ve also integrated Lumberyard with Amazon GameLift, so you can deploy, scale, and operate session-based multiplayer games. We’ve built a new component entity system so that you can easily populate and define the behaviors of the game world by creating entities and defining their behavior by adding components using drag-and-drop workflows in the Lumberyard Editor, and added a new code generation system to allow you to annotate your C++ code and generate the code you need. We’ve advanced the engine to include support for mobile devices, including support for Metal. We’ve created a new launcher and project configurator so your team can get set up without engineering help. We’ve also created new workflows so your artists can iterate faster and create higher-quality content, including a new particle effects editor, new FBX mesh importer, 2D/UI editor, and cross-platform asset pipeline. Please see our full release notes of additions, fixes, and improvements to learn more, and tune in to our GameDev Blog for more news on what we are working on.

 

[Dooguk]

Anyway, how come the magic Germans who are supposed experts with Cryengine, not do what Amazon did with it? [???]

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

Anyway, how come the magic Germans who are supposed experts with Cryengine, not do what Amazon did with it? [???]

Because you also need the infrastructure behind it aka WorldWide Cloud Servers and if they have the option to partner with Amazon while their at it why not do so?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Anyway, how come the magic Germans who are supposed experts with Cryengine, not do what Amazon did with it? [???]

Repeating - Amazon improvements have very little to do instancing requirements CIG/Chris wants to see in SC - thus magic Germans are still required to do their magic if CIG wants to fulfil it ambitious goals.

 

[Maruun]

Because Lumberyard already strengthened (and keeps on doing so) some of the core flaws of base CryEngine aka Network and by integrating StarEngine into Lumberyard they get the benefits of all that work while maintaining everything they worked before, 64 bit, physics grid etc

https://aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/faq/?nc1=h_ls

He is so amusing to read....the GREAT Starengine! That was a butchered version of cryengine to the point where it couldnt handle a FPS anymore...was hailed by the SC fanbase as THE most advanced technolegy and people would throw money at t get that godlike technolegy in their hand the moment SC is released....

Has become a a flawed Cryegine codebase that needs to be integrated into Lumberyard and hoping that anything is being salvageable...and works after the savior amazon came around with that new holy engine...

[video=youtube;r3qWRiFbP_o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3qWRiFbP_o[/video]

Case closed...

 

[Dooguk]

Repeating - Amazon improvements have very little to do instancing requirements CIG/Chris wants to see in SC - thus magic Germans are still required to do their magic if CIG wants to fulfil it ambitious goals.

Thanks, +1 VirtRep

 

[Asp Explorer]

Repeating - Amazon improvements have very little to do instancing requirements CIG/Chris wants to see in SC - thus magic Germans are still required to do their magic if CIG wants to fulfil it ambitious goals.

True - but most gamers think a network stack is something you plug cables into.

 

[Dooguk]

True - but most gamers think a network stack is something you plug cables into.

It Isn't? [???]

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

True - but most gamers think a network stack is something you plug cables into.

I know, and as someone with sysadmin/system integration/server coding experience it annoys me to no end.

 

[Asp Explorer]

It Isn't? [???]

Not if it's done right

To explain - the network implementation itself should not care one iota what it physically (or virtually) runs on. Fibre, copper, pigeons, smoke signals, toilet flushes

 

[CMDR_Orlando]

Why does it need to be a drama thing? It's a good move for both CIG and Amazon and gamers in general. It's the future of gaming.

"What used to take months, maybe years previously building an infrastructure, I can now do in days with Amazon Web services. Take that same capability and offer a gaming instance similar to a Windows ec2 instance, IE: the starengine, and both Amazon and CIG stand to become the leaders in gaming, no less the ones getting a cut from everyone using it. Don't forget there has been a few off the cuff remarks from CR that there may not be a player cap with how the new tech is being designed and built.

Give it a couple years at most for people to start building on it and this will be the gaming platform most everything is built on just like AWS web services for business cloud service.

The game industry will be dominated by the people who can provide the platform, not the content of the games. Just look at steam right now. Lots of new games but all have issues the starengine and AWS can address with ease."

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Not if it's done right

To explain - the network implementation itself should not care one iota what it physically (or virtually) runs on. Fibre, copper, pigeons, smoke signals, toilet flushes

I ran ping with toilet flushes once...slept for a week. Pigeons are huge loss of packets. Both are better than overloaded copper with bad wiring of course.