The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Saying it's "nothing but bashing of CIG and SC" is quite disrespectful to Orlando.

Maybe he misspelled 'basking'?

 

[Tippis]

JPGs don't usually move; this was a video teaser.

For one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG

For another, if CIG can completely mangle words like “refactor” then they can live with the use of “jpeg” as a shorthand for all their pointless dazzle, since that's all it usually is anyway.

Im curious to know, how come at RSI forums Elite thread, people are actually discussing about playing Elite and its features in good manners, but this thread is nothing but bashing of CIG and SC?

Maybe because Elite is an actual game that can be played, with a crapton of functional features to enjoy, made by a competent developer that has actually delivered pretty consistently over the last couple of years — all in stark contrast to the bash-worthy results of CIG and SC?

Doesn't paint a very good picture of CIG or its product, does it?

Less acerbically, neither of the claims you make are particularly true. The RSI thread is full of bashing; this thread has plenty of praise. The difference is in the underlying product and how worthy each is of the reception it gets. Given the historical attack-dog nature of the SC community, the fact that you found some “good manners” in relation to a competing space game should in and of itself give you an idea of how huge that difference is. Remember, we're talking about a community where the community manager made a name for himself by literally ripping up boxed copies of other space games and figuratively (or even literally) relieving himself all over them, just because they were not “his” game from “his” developer — the rest of the community is very much shaped in that same mould.

Just asking..

Look up the term “JAQ:ing”

 

[ianw]

Roger that. I dont know all the drama behind all of this as i havent followed these threads so closely. Been into SC for 2 years but only recently made my way to the RSI forums.

I just enjoy playing both games and was just really surprised how different the two threads are..

I remember going back a while there was one poster in particluar in the RSI thread that was always comically negative and insulting about anything to do with Elite - I think he got banned - then Elite was released.

And that's the main difference - ED is out - not everyone likes everything about it but it is out and they are expanding on it constantly - and perhaps most importantly FD aren't making ludicrous promises on the spot that they never meet and are not selling concept JPEGs for idiotic prices many times the cost of a full working game with expansions in some cases.

CIG have always had it in their power to silence the critics by just releasing a working game that does more or less what they've said it will at roughly the same date they estimate that to happen.

Unfortunately they seem to have been stuck on those last two bits in a very major way for a very long time with no real sign of fast efficient progress on the horizon...

Welcome to the thread!

 

[Clawhammer]

Im curious to know, how come at RSI forums Elite thread, people are actually discussing about playing Elite and its features in good manners, but this thread is nothing but bashing of CIG and SC?
Doesnt paint very good picture of Elite community, does it?

Just asking..

I would not call this place a place that represent the elite community...
Its more a place for other people that abuse this place for their purpose if u ask me.

The normal elite commander does not waste 24hrs per day in a forum about games he does not like. He plays elite.

 

[Mu77ley]

Im curious to know, how come at RSI forums Elite thread, people are actually discussing about playing Elite and its features in good manners, but this thread is nothing but bashing of CIG and SC?
Doesnt paint very good picture of Elite community, does it?

Just asking..

Let's see. Is it because Elite is a fully playable game which is getting better all the time, whereas Star Citizen is a buggy, unplayable mess? Yes, that's probably it.

 

[Henkka77]

Well, im too much of a fan of sci-fi/space games in general to judge any developer who makes games for us sci-fi nutters.
They will deliver the game when its ready to deliver and thats enough for me. Theres no doubt in my mind that they wouldnt. Same goes for Elite and its development.
For the time being, ill be happy with Elite, Empyrion, Osiris and the upcoming Hellion.

 

[xyphic]

I hope it's not true about perpetual crunch time. I know and understand that the vast majority of the people working for RSI / CIG are doing so with the best of intentions: to feed their families, to make a great game, to get good experience on their CVs for future endeavours. Crunch is inevitable, but trying to sustain it for more than a few weeks before a major milestone is crazy. I feel (and fear) for the people working there if it's true. We can jest about the project and the state it's in, but perpetual crunch working conditions are not a joke. The emotional and physical wellbeing of the people actually making the game is *important*.

Let's put it this way: I don't care if the measly sum that I've "invested" in this project is lost at the end of it. I *do* care if that measly sum enables CIG (or any company for that matter) to exploit their workforce to the extent that it causes mental or physical distress. It's a game. It's not that important in the scheme of things.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Well, im too much of a fan of sci-fi/space games in general to judge any developer who makes games for us sci-fi nutters.
They will deliver the game when its ready to deliver and thats enough for me. Theres no doubt in my mind that they wouldnt. Same goes for Elite and its development.
For the time being, ill be happy with Elite, Empyrion, Osiris and the upcoming Hellion.

You may not have followed SC closely but you have no doubt it'll be fine eventually. Thats called 'faith'. The reason people are critical of SC is that many have followed it closely, and found that made faith impossible due to facts.

 

[Prince Thrakkath]

Well, im too much of a fan of sci-fi/space games in general to judge any developer who makes games for us sci-fi nutters.
They will deliver the game when its ready to deliver and thats enough for me. Theres no doubt in my mind that they wouldnt. Same goes for Elite and its development.
For the time being, ill be happy with Elite, Empyrion, Osiris and the upcoming Hellion.

You well know that any backer who says negative stuff about SC on CIG forums gets heavily moderated or banned and gets attacked constantly by the 'community' resulting in many SC 'refugees' ending up on this thread. On these forums people give very negative feedback all the time about this game(Elite) and are allowed to do so because all feedback is necessary to improve the end product.

Also Elite is not being run like a Ponzi scheme selling undelivered digital assets 2 years past its delivery date. Calling that out makes you guys uncomfortable, I get it, but its the truth and thats coming from someone who was 1 of the first 7000 backers of SC at grand admiral level. If you can't see a problem with the fact that they have raised 140 million and are still begging for money for an undelivered product with no proper targets or timelines that's your problem not a problem with this thread.

 

[Tippis]

Also Elite is not being run like a Ponzi scheme selling undelivered digital assets 2 years past its delivery date.

…also, before anyone starts complaining loudly (which, now that I've said that, someone will have had time to do while I'm writing this ), the moment they went from “crowdfunding money pays for the game” to “we have to rely on release sales of SQ42 to complete SC”, the old jab at the previous funding scheme suddenly became uncomfortably applicable.

Sure, a regular Ponzi has to do with paying back old investors, but in this case the “payout” to the “investors” in question is the release of the game. If that release now relies, not on the company using that investment wisely, but on finding new investors — in this case brand new customers — then it's pretty much the same thing.

e: I wonder if Chris ever worked on the code for autocorrect…

 

[hairychris]

I'm still waiting to see how the economy works, and how they are going to handle the inevitable inflation problems that almost all MMO's face.

Seeing as this is probably one of the most complex things in any game, you'd have thought we would have seen some evidence that they are actually looking at this, but after 5+ years we don't even have basic trading.

Basic gameplay is something that they seem to be ignoring, while concentrating on the fancy eye candy (and the graphics ARE nice, when they work).

I don't hold out much hope

I studied economics when I was younger so I suppose that I could throw something together.

FWIW This was in the 80s. We ran some economic modelling software and had a competition to see who could get the best results in a simulated economy. I discovered that if you ran an extreme boom/bust model you could game the points allocation (point allocation in boom more than made up for points loss in bust). Our tutor wondered why I got about 3x the points that everyone else did...

On second thoughts maybe I'm not the best person to ask. Actually living in that economy would have sucked.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

For a minute I thought you were alluding to it being a Fonzi scheme...

Walk up to your Idris and smack it sharply on the left hand side to enter the cockpit?

 

[Barking_Mad]

I hope it's not true about perpetual crunch time. I know and understand that the vast majority of the people working for RSI / CIG are doing so with the best of intentions: to feed their families, to make a great game, to get good experience on their CVs for future endeavours. Crunch is inevitable, but trying to sustain it for more than a few weeks before a major milestone is crazy. I feel (and fear) for the people working there if it's true. We can jest about the project and the state it's in, but perpetual crunch working conditions are not a joke. The emotional and physical wellbeing of the people actually making the game is *important*.

Let's put it this way: I don't care if the measly sum that I've "invested" in this project is lost at the end of it. I *do* care if that measly sum enables CIG (or any company for that matter) to exploit their workforce to the extent that it causes mental or physical distress. It's a game. It's not that important in the scheme of things.

A very important point. As I've mentioned before someone I know very well had a job working on one of the biggest if not the biggest AAA title you can think of, a dream job when they first got it. After it was done they told me that some of that time was 'the worst in my life'. Surprising just *how stressful* it was for a company with bags of experience in doing what they were doing. In SC's case I can completely understand why people, or in one case a team of people walked out.

Lions led by donkeys....

 

[Tippis]

I studied economics when I was younger so I suppose that I could throw something together.

FWIW This was in the 80s. We ran some economic modelling software and had a competition to see who could get the best results in a simulated economy. I discovered that if you ran an extreme boom/bust model you could game the points allocation (point allocation in boom more than made up for points loss in bust). Our tutor wondered why I got about 3x the points that everyone else did...

On second thoughts maybe I'm not the best person to ask. Actually living in that economy would have sucked.

That just means you definitely won since you considered the meta-economy of getting points on top of just the economy itself.

 

[hairychris]

…also, before anyone starts complaining loudly (which, now that I've said that, someone will have had time to do while I'm writing this ), the moment they went from “crowdfunding money pays for the game” to “we have to rely on release sales of SQ42 to complete SC”, the old jab at the previous funding scheme suddenly became uncomfortably applicable.

Sure, a regular Ponzi has to do with paying back old investors, but in this case the “payout” to the “investors” in question is the release of the game. If that release now relies, not on the company using that investment wisely, but on finding new investors — in this case brand new customers — then it's pretty much the same thing.

e: I wonder if Chris ever worked on the code for autocorrect…

They rely on ship sales too. I'll never get tired of linking to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvule1cD_zk&t=560s

Problematic IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

That just means you definitely won since you considered the meta-economy of getting points on top of just the economy itself.

Yep. I was playing against the game, not role-playing as an economics minister (or whatever). By then I was a long-time ZX Spectrum gamer and also studying programming. I think that I was surprised that no-one else was doing what I did!

Moral of that story is, I suppose, that any system you develop you need to check for people exploiting edge cases. I'm sure that the obviously serious folks who developed the sim didn't plan for policies that would have caused a revolution after about 18 months.

 

[Rolan]

A little late but is updated

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Super Hornet & Multi-Region Servers

Spoiler

[video=youtube;HPUBMu1fav4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPUBMu1fav4&feature=share[/video]

Updated TLDR

Spoiler

Misc Information

• Chris is back from the European studios
• Monthly Report came out last week.
• First ever Valentines Sale is on right now including a free fly event.
• 2.6.1 will feature the launch of Spectrum.

Studio Update

• 200 staff at Foundry 42 UK
• Shield generator, storage console, and mining module images
• Damage states for the Dragonfly
• Map of the Stanton system
• Asteroid, nebula, satellite, and space station images

Ship Shape: Hornet to Super Hornet

• The original Hornet paid homage to the Hornet from Wing Commander which was a light fighter you started out in.
• At first the Hornet was to be a light fighter, but then after designs came back with it being heavily armed and beafy, Chris Roberts like it so much that it became the standard medium fighter for the UEE.
  • The first Hornet came out in 2806 and replaced the Aegis Avenger.
• The goal has always for a player to feel as if the ship and everything about is it real, down to the buttons on cockpit and Chris feels this is was a big draw for a lot of people to the project.
• With the help of CGbot studios, Jim Martin, Ryan Churches, and Dave Haddock they created the demo shown at GDC and Kickstarter.
• The first pass of the Hornet was in 2013 for the Hanger Module by Chris Smith.
  • The next was in 2014 with updating it to PBR
  • 2016 involved a complete upgrade to the Hornet and variants to bring them to the current standards
  • The new Super Hornet will be in patch 2.6.1.
• The old damage system was hand crafted and had states of 25, 50, 75, and 100. The new shader system dynamically applies the artists designs across any part of the ship as its destroyed, making it much easier to create damage models that look and feel realistic and varied.

Behind the Scenes: Multi-Region Servers

• Game and platform run on public cloud, as has almost always been the case
• Evaluated different public clouds to determine best option short term and long term
• Huge overhead with running your own servers, cloud allows for lower cost and much greater flexibility
• Cloud also allows you to have servers close to your players rather than centrally located
• Three main types of virtual machines (hub, core, and game)
• Current model allows for many hubs, many game servers, but singleton core services.
• Core services currently being revamped and redesigned to become stateless and easy to scale to allow them to cope with any load they get. *Original build machine was a single computer which produced 1 build per day, now CIG uses an internal cloud as a build system that can scale based on need.
• Ahmed and his team worked on multi-region servers through part of December, January, and early February
• Happy that they have a feature done that can be seen and enjoyed by the player base directly
• One database for all servers in the world, means you carry your game over when switching regions
• Current servers in North Virginia (US), Frankfurt (Europe), and Sydney (Australia)
• Players will be sent to closest load balancer, then closest hub server, then will be marked with a region ID and assigned to a game server. This can then be changed if the player wants. *They did the work in 2 months but the previous 18 months of work was crucial to getting it done so quickly.
• Planning for failures and getting the network back up quickly
• All networks are laid out and they are ready to expand to all 14 or 15 regions from the current 3.
• Looking towards the long term and possibly having as many as 10,000 VMs reporting at the same time. Planning for that scale.
• Automation systems are done and they can scale with high reliability.

Source: https://relay.sc/transcript/around-the-verse

 

[Viajero]

A little late but is updated

Thanks Rolan,

I wonder if there is any other sale planned during February, as the TLDR does not mention it, and seen the mediocre result of this Valentine's so far.

 

[dsmart]

You well know that any backer who says negative stuff about SC on CIG forums gets heavily moderated or banned and gets attacked constantly by the 'community' resulting in many SC 'refugees' ending up on this thread. On these forums people give very negative feedback all the time about this game(Elite) and are allowed to do so because all feedback is necessary to improve the end product.

Also Elite is not being run like a Ponzi scheme selling undelivered digital assets 2 years past its delivery date. Calling that out makes you guys uncomfortable, I get it, but its the truth and thats coming from someone who was 1 of the first 7000 backers of SC at grand admiral level. If you can't see a problem with the fact that they have raised 140 million and are still begging for money for an undelivered product with no proper targets or timelines that's your problem not a problem with this thread.

^this

+Rep

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Rolan,

I wonder if there is any other sale planned during February, as the TLDR does not mention it, and seen the mediocre result of this Valentine's so far.

Well the VD sale goes to Feb 28th - if you can believe that. So I think after that will be the Easter sale. They will probably do something for next week's Presidents Day.

 

[Asylum]

Thanks Rolan,

I wonder if there is any other sale planned during February, as the TLDR does not mention it, and seen the mediocre result of this Valentine's so far.

This one goes until the end of feb basically....so doubt it.

March madness (NCAA US college basketball championships) is coming up, so quite sure they'll capitalize on the name of that for their sales.

Jocks will watch, the geeks will be fleeced.

(I'm a fallen fleeced geek (but still chic)though...pretty close to going full refund.....ya that's right "FULL" refund....(never go full)

Edit: ninja' by Mr. Smart (not that there is anything wrong with that)

 

[dsmart]

These guys really do think that they're going to be getting 1000 player instances, inter-instance comms etc. Like seriously.