The Star Citizen Thread v5

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dsmart

Banned
Regarding the PCGamer weekend thing, hobo Lando said



Hopefully they don't have a scheduling issue tomorrow as well...

Oh, dear. 30 minutes in and this is still badly broken.

Pros
* Loads faster than previously
* Better FPS than previously. Solid 60fps at 4k resolution (but I have upgraded from 2xSLId GTX 980s, to a single GTX 1080 since the last time I tried it).

Cons
* FPS immediately drops to 30 as soon as you join the PU.
* Game locks up if you dare to press the B button (yes, I'm using a Xbone controller for those, so shoot me) in the graphics menu. Have to kill the task.
* Unable to enter constellation lift pad from 2 sides of it.
* Combat is still an utter yawn-fest, with absolutely no requirement to manoeuvre. Just throttle to max, and hold the mouse pointer over the enemy ship.

Conclusion
Still utter rubbish

Same here.

Anyway, it's still pre-alpha; so we shouldn't expect it to work properly (even if most of the bugs have been there forever and a day) until they hit $250m and can allocate more resources so they hit Beta in 2024

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No because if they crash and burn a whole bunch of gamers are going to lose a collective $140m and that wouldn't give me any pleasure whatsoever.

However within that group of gamers there are some individuals whose behaviour concerns me.

Some are just capable of levels of self-deception the likes of which I can't really get a handle on and are therefore able to convince themselves that everything looks perfectly normal. I still have sympathy for those people because I totally understand wanting to believe; hell, I've said enough times that if the game ever appears and actually includes all of the content that has been promised I'll be buying it, in fact I don't know many gamers who wouldn't want to buy it. I don't believe though and it's not because I'm naturally a cynic (I am) but because when Chris says that a game like this has never been made before he's right and there are so many entirely valid technical reasons for that, it's clear that he's having the same conversation that I used to have with my mates when I was twelve or so about the bestest game in the world, only I didn't charge people $140m to listen to me. That group of people need protecting from themselves really.

Some are shilling for CIG in the most classical sense though. Endless posts on forums and reddit that say things like 'the game will feature...' or 'we're going to have...' followed by either repeating the official theorycrafting or often injecting their own. Endless posts on forums and reddit from them attacking people who are not just blindly lashing out at CIG and Roberts but have tried to explain sensibly, calmly and with no shortage of technical detail exactly why and how many aspects of what CIG come out with is literally selling myths as reality.

They're probably the same people who would think asking players to provide photo ID to get a refund is sensible, or who don't see anything even slightly off-kilter about a company who lie repeatedly and obviously about numerous aspects of the game's open (lol) development. For example announcing a meeting to start planning the content for the update that four months earlier they had said would be released about two weeks before that meeting took place, the S42 demo that was allegedly only two days away from being ready but was then allegedly dropped for hilariously bull reasons and hasn't been seen since despite the growing scepticism around the project etc. I mean really, even if you accept the reason for dropping it two days away from completion can anybody seriously believe that they wouldn't have done two days work on it since then to finish it off and put it out there?

They are a cohort of people who genuinely fit all of the main criteria to be considered a cult and like most cults you can't argue with them because they don't hold opinions which have any basis in logic to begin with, it's all blind faith, circular enabling and creating a bunker mentality where critics or the sceptical are all out to get them for no discernible reason other than the fact they are evil people. They're also very vocal in encouraging people to spend more money on the game or to make an initial purchase and that is breathtakingly irresponsible considering the overall situation with the game's development and the fact that people just coming across it for the first time are unlikely to have a full understanding of the position in the round as far as the game's chances of actually getting a release in a way that even vaguely resembles Roberts' fantasies is concerned.

Honestly, I will laugh and laugh and laugh if some of those people are into SC for five grand and lose it because I absolutely despise people like that and I make no apologies whatsoever for it. Those people losing a large amount of money is in fact the only good that could possibly come out of the game folding.

I've come across a group of very similar people before you see. I've been a fan of cycling (road and track) for over 30 years and like most clued up cycling fans, I used to watch Lance Armstrong riding up Alps, away from world class fields that were themselves full of dopers, like he was on a motorbike and knew that I was watching someone who was so doped up it was a miracle he didn't glow in the dark. Yet for years, as he lied, lied and lied again ('What am I on? I'm on my bike, seven hours a day' and all that crap) there was a bunch of Armstrong fanboys who would descend on anyone commenting that he might just possibly have taken a little bit of the bad stuff and hound people both on web forums and in some cases in real life for it.

I have no time for people so desperate to believe something that was clearly a fantasy that they were willing to attack perfectly decent people because of it. I could understand anyone who needed some education to explain why what old Lance was saying was so patently a crock of crap, but I can't excuse supposedly intelligent adults who put their own refusal to challege what was bordering on a religious belief structure for them ahead of common sense and measurable data.

The reason Lance popped into my mind was that one of the most hilariously hubris-filled things he ever came out with (after winning LOL his seventh Tour de France) was this:
I'll say to the people who don't believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry that you can't dream big. I'm sorry that you don't believe in miracles.'

Replace the word 'cycling' with 'Chris Roberts' or 'Star Citizen' and I bet you could find a post which basically paraphrased that statement on the game forum or reddit inside 30 seconds. It's only a shame Lance didn't say 'You just don't understand professional cycling' to complete the bingo card.

I was walking around with a smile on my face for weeks when he finally got popped. I read the full USADA report and giggled all the way through it and when he went on Oprah I downloaded it and sat here with a bottle of Bollinger laughing like a toddler all the way through it, not least because I was thinking about all of those people who believed in miracles and spent well over ten years slaughtering people online, in the print and visual media on the back of their crank delusions.

So yeah. If you're reading this, have a lot of money in Star Citizen and are spending your time shilling for it in the face of all logic and sense I truly hope that you get the game you're anticipating and if you do, I will welcome you with open arms when you come to rub my face in it.

But if you don't, make sure you remember that I'm laughing at you. Probably with a nice bottle of Bolly.

^this

+Rep
 

dsmart

Banned
Remember back when BoredGamer went to F42-UK about two weeks ago and said he would report back on what he saw.

[video=youtube_share;ZzmJRyNdDaM]https://youtu.be/ZzmJRyNdDaM[/video]

Totally called it!

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/830806201164234752
So @boredgameruk, one of Star Citizen's Shillizens (they all lie to backers, under undisclosed CIG sponsorship) visited F42 recently /1

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/830807154814812162
Says he will post when he figures out “what he's allowed to say”. Open development, huh? We have sources standing by to fact check it all /2

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/830807769288757250
Right off the bat, I am informed that he didn't see or play SQ42, nor the non-existent Star Citizen 3.0 build. Now we wait for his post /3
 
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This may have been already answered, kinda obvious but, do you actually play Elite

Yep yep, since day 1. But, I've never played Elite with a mouse for more than... oh, 20 mins?

Very different from the "gimballed mouse point and click to shoot and ship just follows" that Freelancer and Star Citizen are.

I think that's due to the issue of Yaw. Elite forces you to roll (+pitch) in order to significantly change your move vector, which SC doesn't. If you move the stick left in SC, the ship turns left. I would expect the mouse to behave the same way.

This is one of the oldest discussions... The fact that you seem to be unaware is quite puzzling to be honest.

I've only bought SC last spring - and read a lot of post/histories in some areas, not all of them (even in this thread, with over 37,000 posts). I've read quite a bit on the 2.5-current flight model (as well as played it), but I'm not testing it with a keyboard on Monday, a mouse on Wednesday, and a HOTAS on Friday. So my interpretation of it is how well it works with a stick, and how it's been changing in the last few builds.

I believe it's gotten better in the time I've played it, but I think the Yaw difference (to Elite) is something that is simply never going to please some people. I keep saying that you've got a very strong 6DOF motion available, but somehow that always devolves into "turrets in space."

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Totally called it!

Here's some other predictions I'm sure you'll find fascinating:

- At least once in the next year, Apple will release a financial report. They will discuss profit and loss, but details on specific future products will be scarce and vague.
- Before next Spring, POTUS will give a SOTU. He'll discuss the military - but trust me, he won't list the status of single current deployment. ESPECIALLY BLACK OPS.
- MARK MY WORDS. There will be TWO teams in the Superbowl next year. ONLY ONE OF THEM will win.
 
I think that's due to the issue of Yaw. Elite forces you to roll (+pitch) in order to significantly change your move vector, which SC doesn't. If you move the stick left in SC, the ship turns left. I would expect the mouse to behave the same way.
[...]
I believe it's gotten better in the time I've played it, but I think the Yaw difference (to Elite) is something that is simply never going to please some people. I keep saying that you've got a very strong 6DOF motion available, but somehow that always devolves into "turrets in space."

I-War 2 didn't have weak yaw, and yet it wasn't point and click, even if you modify it to work with a mouse. The issue is that at least in SC with gimballed guns you select a point on a screen and your ship decides how to move there, while in Elite or non-gimballed SC you have to decide how much to pitch and yaw, and in case of Elite, you have to watch for overshooting your target. At least that's how I understand it.
 

dsmart

Banned
to be fair that one doesnt seem to contain watermark.
so maybe they actually paid for it, this time

Yeah, they probably paid for it. But the point is, with all the money and all these artists, they can't make a simple original art blanket? See what I mean?
 
Yeah, they probably paid for it. But the point is, with all the money and all these artists, they can't make a simple original art blanket? See what I mean?

It's far less expensive to use a stock image for such a nominal prop, than to pay an artist to create a new image. Given the vast amount of time you've spent discussing SC finances, I'd expect you to recognize that.
 
PCGamer Weekender Q&A Pt2

[video=youtube;BxkcXO6i7d8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxkcXO6i7d8[/video]
 
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As expected no tough questions, answers full of maybes, don't knows, don't know when, not my department type stuff.

Did they turn up for the live stream?
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I've only bought SC last spring - and read a lot of post/histories in some areas, not all of them (even in this thread, with over 37,000 posts). I've read quite a bit on the 2.5-current flight model (as well as played it), but I'm not testing it with a keyboard on Monday, a mouse on Wednesday, and a HOTAS on Friday. So my interpretation of it is how well it works with a stick, and how it's been changing in the last few builds.

Oh sweet summer child! :) The discussion about the arcadeyness of the flight system in SC is linked to how gimballed weapons function and specifically about its very specific implementation for mouse control. And not so much about the (borked) physics that are still there, although both issues tend to get confused and mixed up a lot.

I think that's due to the issue of Yaw. Elite forces you to roll (+pitch) in order to significantly change your move vector, which SC doesn't. If you move the stick left in SC, the ship turns left. I would expect the mouse to behave the same way.

No, the issue has absolutely nothing to do with how yaw (or any other of the 2 rotational axis by that matter) is handled differently in both games.

The issue is about the difference between a zero order control device versus a 1st order one when it comes to gimballed weapons and how flight control is intextricably linked to it by easily following your aim, and how all that renders the aim and fly experience an arcadey "freelancer style" one in the case of SC.

There were (are) tons of vids and posts in the Katamari that explain the issue very well, but CG_Pepper says it best with his humour:

[video=youtube;97AbFENsjx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97AbFENsjx4[/video]
 
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No, the issue has absolutely nothing to do with how yaw (or any other of the 2 rotational axis by that matter) is handled differently in both games.

The issue is about the difference between a zero order control device versus a 1st order one when it comes to gimballed weapons and how flight control is intextricably linked to it by easily following your aim

Ok - watched the vid. I've seen Pepper's stuff before, he's a blast ;).

I think you and I may sort of be on the same page - or at least, discussing the same book. I think it starts with yaw, but certainly the gimbals are making the issue even more prevalent. If I had my wish, gimbals wouldn't exist in SC at all. Nor in Elite.

On controllers: I've never been a fan of any sort of "controller agnostic". As Pepper sort of says in the video - I paid $400+ for flight controllers, and I do expect (in any game) for that to offer an advantage. It certainly did 10-20 years ago, and I'd like for that old trend to re-emerge.
 
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