The Star Citizen Thread v5

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

frostypaw

frostypaw
Snarfbuckle said:
Of course, but hardly ship models.

They can easily balance ship attributes like speed, shield values and similar since just like Elite all those values are just that, numbers that have no real correlation with actual ship values like mass, thruster model or number etc.
Click to expand...

That could be true with careful design. FDev got to sidestep this pretty neatly with ship models that are fairly simple with all the weaponry/functionality hidden inside but RSI have gone for crazily detailed models complete with all sorts of protuberances and appendages that are now turning out to be purely cosmetic to balance things
 

Tippis

Tippis
frostypaw said:
That could be true with careful design. FDev got to sidestep this pretty neatly with ship models that are fairly simple with all the weaponry/functionality hidden inside but RSI have gone for crazily detailed models complete with all sorts of protuberances and appendages that are now turning out to be purely cosmetic to balance things
Click to expand...

And, as mentioned, they have these strange ideas about all kinds of gameplay that should take place inside those ships — repairs and parts replacement and whathaveyou — seemingly without any consideration as to whether the actual dynamics that are supposed to put that gameplay into effect will be able to do so.

Never mind the whole ejection or evacuation process — how long does it take to kill one of those ships where the crew is supposed to be able to run around and restore systems mid-fight? Even if the intent is just to do it post-fight, the question remains: how long will that take, compared to, say, the other guy showing up in a second, fresh ship, and blowing up whatever was left from the first fight? The way CIG has decided to create its gameplay, the actual ship design must be not just secondary to the creation of those core mechanics, but tertiary to both mechanics and a number of balance passes. There may be some tweaks towards the end where the designs can be locked in and decorated in more detail, but up until then, anything more complex than basic grey shapes is just a waste of everyone's time and effort.

Either they will have to (pretty much completely) redesign the ships to match the balance and gameplay intent, or they will have to throw out the gameplay to match the balance and design intent. Leaving the balance to last isn't even an option because that will make the unbalanceable.
 

Skizomeuh

Skizomeuh
Tippis said:
And, as mentioned, they have these strange ideas about all kinds of gameplay that should take place inside those ships — repairs and parts replacement and whathaveyou — seemingly without any consideration as to whether the actual dynamics that are supposed to put that gameplay into effect will be able to do so.

Never mind the whole ejection or evacuation process — how long does it take to kill one of those ships where the crew is supposed to be able to run around and restore systems mid-fight? Even if the intent is just to do it post-fight, the question remains: how long will that take, compared to, say, the other guy showing up in a second, fresh ship, and blowing up whatever was left from the first fight? The way CIG has decided to create its gameplay, the actual ship design must be not just secondary to the creation of those core mechanics, but tertiary to both mechanics and a number of balance passes. There may be some tweaks towards the end where the designs can be locked in and decorated in more detail, but up until then, anything more complex than basic grey shapes is just a waste of everyone's time and effort.

Either they will have to (pretty much completely) redesign the ships to match the balance and gameplay intent, or they will have to throw out the gameplay to match the balance and design intent. Leaving the balance to last isn't even an option because that will make the unbalanceable.
Click to expand...

^^^ This. VirtuRep for you.

Not only they're in for serious balance issue if they can come close to something looking like a beta, but they're in for numerous ships redesigns/refactors too.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Tippis said:
And, as mentioned, they have these strange ideas about all kinds of gameplay that should take place inside those ships — repairs and parts replacement and whathaveyou — seemingly without any consideration as to whether the actual dynamics that are supposed to put that gameplay into effect will be able to do so.

Never mind the whole ejection or evacuation process — how long does it take to kill one of those ships where the crew is supposed to be able to run around and restore systems mid-fight? Even if the intent is just to do it post-fight, the question remains: how long will that take, compared to, say, the other guy showing up in a second, fresh ship, and blowing up whatever was left from the first fight? The way CIG has decided to create its gameplay, the actual ship design must be not just secondary to the creation of those core mechanics, but tertiary to both mechanics and a number of balance passes. There may be some tweaks towards the end where the designs can be locked in and decorated in more detail, but up until then, anything more complex than basic grey shapes is just a waste of everyone's time and effort.

Either they will have to (pretty much completely) redesign the ships to match the balance and gameplay intent, or they will have to throw out the gameplay to match the balance and design intent. Leaving the balance to last isn't even an option because that will make the unbalanceable.
Click to expand...

please excuse me for jumping in here and possibly missing a huge part of this but.... personally i love the potential idea of a wrecked ship limping away from the battle, and then having to lick her wounds by repairs, possibly having to go EVA out of the ship. (thinking of the start of the film Gravity)

i think the worry of players coming back to finish the job cam be mitigated. space is big so if possibly a small mini jump from the exact vicinity then going "cold" like a sub hiding in WWII i could imagine being pretty hard to find, just drifting in normal space or landed on an asteroid.... and of course the risk of being caught on the off chance, well, that is surely part of the fun?

indeed my hope is we get this in ED 1 day too. my fear however is that a certain core of min maxers who are not used to such "boring time sinks" would complain so much that it was affecting their credit earning however than actual reparis which take time may generate some flak.

i would hope it still comes to ED, and definitely hope the SC fans are more tolerant of stuff, not directly related to credit earning , taking actual in game time, becasue to me, this is the stuff which elevates playing a space shooter to playing a game about living the life of a space captain.
 
Last edited:

Tippis

Tippis
Mad Mike said:
please excuse me for jumping in here and possibly missing a huge part of this but.... personally i love the potential idea of a wrecked ship limping away from the battle, and then having to lick her wounds by repairs, possibly having to go EVA out of the ship. (thinking of the start of the film Gravity)
Click to expand...

It's not that there's something wrong with the idea — hell, the idea has been around in a myriad of different forms in space games pretty much since the genre was invented — but rather with how, if it is to be implemented, it needs to be a part of the early gameplay and balance cycles, which in turn have to inform the final design of the ships. CIG is starting at the “final design” end, which (for obvious reasons) can't actually be final.

They've promised gameplay that is crippled by their own development process.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
Tippis said:
They've promised gameplay that is crippled by their own development process.
Click to expand...

I admit i am not following the game as closely as you guys, so i will happily defer to more clued in folk than i (and following it even less now as VR is looking less than likely) but lets be honest, this is not a trait exclusive to CIG.

FD totally shot themselves in the foot with the way exploration worked from launch as as such have massively limited what they can do with it imo. My hope is SC is not out yet, so there IS still time for them to change things........... if there is 1 thing that is good about being 1 - 2 years tardy behind their competitors, in theory they can see what worked, and what didnt and build accordingly.
 
Last edited:

Skizomeuh

Skizomeuh
That's the magic of the thing: they never showed how any of their features are meant to work in-game (apart from the golf-swing thing... And we know how it ended :) )
 

Tippis

Tippis
Viajero said:
Yes, you can customize your browser so you get up to 50 posts per page. That should help.
Click to expand...
emot-golfclap.gif
 

Snarfbuckle

S
Agony_Aunt said:
Yes, the previous 4 threads :D
Click to expand...

It's damn funny really.

I mean, every level headed backer understands that it CAN fail, all games can fail.
But the OBSESSION of the possibility of failure is rather impressive to see.
It's like seeing the mirror image of the extremist backer who is so convinced it CANNOT fail and both sides are patting themselves on the back on how it cannot fail or whatever rumor they have dug up about it's IMMEDIATE demise.

I think I have heard about them crashing and burning since 2012 by now. That's one slooow car crash.

They are doing things differently and people gave them an obscene amount of money to do it. If they fail that sucks and if they succeed they will have created something incredible.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom