The Star Citizen Thread v5

[milligna]

Their speech is not robotically fixed and it's more organic in the way that it adapts to your attitudes in real time.

So... it'll play a different WAV file depending on how close you are to it? Whew, that's some fancy new tech. I wonder if they have some special name for that. He should claim they are Special Sentient NPCs or something. Emergent AI. The CIG Variable Speech Intelligence System.

This amazing breakthrough needs a proper label. Something as impressive sounding as "local physics grids."

"business as usual" doesn't have the right ring to it... you're really setting yourself up for disappointment if you have such high hopes for stilted dialogue-slinging machines. You've seen the script leak, right? It's robotically fixed. ie, it's scripted with not too much variation. Sorry! The idea of lifelike AI slapping you, reacting, almost breathing... and not acting like... every other NPC AI in every other game since the dawn of video games sounds great! But what's CR's track record on incredible breakthrough innovations? Copying Battlehawks 1942? Bloated code than runs badly, hours of tedious FMV cutscenes, Strike Commander's hilarious foibles, Freelancer's need for years worth of mods...

Seriously, what game EVER has delivered amazing lifelike NPCs? Ever? They are ALL robotically fixed.

CR is going to suddenly change history?

with THAT!?!?

 

[Backer42]

They should disappear of the radar and come back with Star Citizen/Squadron 42 by 2019 as a nice surprise.

And sell how many copies of a 2011 game with a 2009 engine based on a 1999 game concept? In 2019?

Time's up.

 

[ianw]

Wow, how innovative. It's the same damn thing almost every FPS has done since Half-Life but when you're just following around scripted NPCs churning out dialogue...

It's amazing how CR can present ideas taken from other games and somehow present them as some amazing innovation. Wow... cut scenes you can look around the scene in? Golly! I'm so immersed... in what the industry has done for almost two decades now.

if all they show is the Morrow tour almost a year later... wow. That would be pitiful. Already the deck sequences in COD:IW look far superior... better visuals, models, and mis-en-scene... of course, that has people that know how to deliver games, instead of bungling a game while occasionally calling it a movie.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Sx2JImzILNs/maxresdefault.jpg

It's 2016. That ain't good enough, despite daydreams about NPCs slapping you.

I dunno - there's something strangely alluring..

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So... it'll play a different WAV file depending on how close you are to it? Wow. That's some fancy new tech. I wonder if they have some special name for that. He should claim they are Special Sentient NPCs or something. Emergent AI. The CIG Variable Speech Intelligence System.

This amazing breakthrough needs a proper label. Something as impressive sounding as "local physics grids."

"business as usual" doesn't have the right ring to it... you're really setting yourself up for disappointment if you have such high hopes for stilted dialogue-slinging machines. You've seen the script leak, right? It's robotically fixed. ie, it's scripted with not too much variation. Sorry! The idea of lifelike AI slapping you, reacting, almost breathing... and not acting like... every other NPC AI in every other game since the dawn of video games sounds great! But what's CR's track record on incredible breakthrough innovations? Copying Battlehawks 1942? Bloated code than runs badly, hours of tedious FMV cutscenes, Strike Commander's hilarious foibles, Freelancer's need for years worth of mods...

Seriously, what game EVER has delivered amazing lifelike NPCs? Ever? They are ALL robotically fixed.

CR is going to suddenly change history?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ShYcRq8rvhU/maxresdefault.jpg

But that's just weird!

 

[Asp Explorer]

You can't polish the Morrow Tour.

But you can roll it in glitter

 

[ianw]

You can't polish the Morrow Tour.

But you can roll it in glitter

A sparkly Richard the III - now that really is weird..

 

[proKar_garlic]

So... it'll play a different WAV file depending on how close you are to it? Wow. That's some fancy new tech. I wonder if they have some special name for that. He should claim they are Special Sentient NPCs or something. Emergent AI. The CIG Variable Speech Intelligence System.

This amazing breakthrough needs a proper label. Something as impressive sounding as "local physics grids."

"business as usual" doesn't have the right ring to it... you're really setting yourself up for disappointment if you have such high hopes for stilted dialogue-slinging machines. You've seen the script leak, right? It's robotically fixed. ie, it's scripted with not too much variation. Sorry! The idea of lifelike AI slapping you, reacting, almost breathing... and not acting like... every other NPC AI in every other game since the dawn of video games sounds great! But what's CR's track record on incredible breakthrough innovations? Copying Battlehawks 1942? Bloated code than runs badly, hours of tedious FMV cutscenes, Strike Commander's hilarious foibles, Freelancer's need for years worth of mods...

Seriously, what game EVER has delivered amazing lifelike NPCs? Ever? They are ALL robotically fixed.

CR is going to suddenly change history?

Well you can say he already changed game history back in 1991 with the Wing Commander Franchise. As it went on to become a world hit, was ported to several platforms and branched into many sequels that allways pushed the tech of that time and served as inspiration for many narrative-story-campaigns that followed.

You can also say that not only Chris Roberts changed history of crowdfunding games (topping it), but created a wave of excitement and support for the space genre. You could also say that it's attention to detail, the "little stuff",can be seen already as inspiration for other dev's / games. The helmet animation in DOOM, the whole new COD is pretty much an homage to Wing Commander and very close in feel of the OldMan Trailer.

People can disdain the man all they want, but they can't deny he had and continues to make an impact in the gaming scene.

That's why we are here anyway. Supporters, believes if you will, together with cynics, naysayers and doubters of CIG. Even though there are some eager for its failure just so they could say they were right all along or simply because they fear for their investment in the "other" space games. I think that deep down they know they will be playing it anyway, that's why despite all the refund talk, most of them kept their main package with all the perks old backer perks.

The ones on the fence or the ones that fully refunded and are waiting to see how all this goes they did ok too. For the less people with major fleets the better. In fact I would much prefer that everyone had to start in equal terms with the choice of several starting ships. But hey, the game scope would suffer from it and we would have something on a much smaller scale.

 

[milligna]

Well you can say he already changed game history back in 1991 with Wing Commander which went on to become a world hit and franchised to several platforms and have many sequels that pushed tech of the time.

You could, or you could say as CR did that he reverse engineered Lawrence Holland's engine and set it in space, and then Holland switched to space and created FAR better space pew pew with the X-Wing series. Tie Fighter alone shreds CR's resume and force pushes it out an airlock. A ripoff of Larry Niven's Kzinti vs the goddamn Empire? No contest.

Really nice faith-based rant that needs to be set to inspiring music, but I notice you're not making any snappy comebacks about his revolution in NPC tech and your weird idea that the NPCs won't be "robotically fixed." The magic Germans can't actually create autonomous digital lifeforms with maximum fidelity, even if they have bells on their shoes and pointy hats.

The NPCs are just going to spit out the overbaked, cliche dialogue CR badly directed in monstrously expensive mocap sessions that just remind me of how they wasted our money building two mocap studios that weren't used in favor of him swanning off to Imaginarium multiple times. More great project management there!

 

[Asp Explorer]

A sparkly Richard the III - now that really is weird..

There really are pills for that I'm sure that in the SC universe, they are all the rage. It's why everyone walks the way they do

 

[dsmart]

The second to last quote, where you say you don't think it will ever be made, at least not as pitched... That's a pretty direct paraphrase right there.

Wrong. And I'm not in the mood to argue semantics.

This is what he claims I said:

"From the very core of the inception of those arguments you have the most absolute lie, "that the game has been pitched, will never get made". (Who said exactly the same about Elite: Dangerous btw)."

This is what I actually said:

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/286576157938307072

So Elite Dangerous met its funding target. Nice. Sadly I don't believe it will ever see the light of day. At least not in the pitched form

And ED did NOT release in the originally pitched form. Let's not ignore or debate the merits of that particular furor when it happened, since this is not that forum.

And neither will Star Citizen seeing as they have already removed and/or have yet to implement things promised in the pitch to backers

The issue here is that he is - foolishly - trying to say that somehow, SC is going to be completed as pitched because I was - in his eyes - wrong (I wasn't) about ED when I said I wasn't convinced that it would in fact ship as pitched. Mind. Blown.

I am way too old, and far too experienced to be engaging in Strawman arguments. They're a waste of my time.

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And sell how many copies of a 2011 game with a 2009 engine based on a 1999 game concept? In 2019?

Time's up.

Dude!! Stop! I damned near choked on my tea as I read that.

 

[proKar_garlic]

Wing Commander was a game fully envisioned by a 23 year old game developer. The mere fact of comparing it with with a Star Wars game is a testament to its success. Besides, both games shined for completely different reasons in a similar setting. Wing Commander was more focused on character relations so It garnered more appreciation for people that wanted to "live" the story.
Both are legendary games. Actually I've never played Wing Commander, just read about it, I did yes played X-Wing and TieFighter in a friends house for hours, and he had a joystick! Very addictive.

ps- posting blurry screen-caps of a live stream is a very weak attempt of trolling, and If by any chance anyone believes the game will look like that all I can do is lol.

This video (August 2013) seemed to have slipped under the radar and should be shared imo (specially the first minutes):
[video=youtube;biCyzJI2V04]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biCyzJI2V04[/video]

 

[milligna]

Wing Commander was a game fully envisioned by a 23 year old game developer.

Uh, not quite. It didn't burst out of the child genius' forehead fully formed... It was a game produced by Origin Systems, one of the most amazing game companies of the time full of incredibly talented developers that CR liked to take the credit for. That most of them have fled his recent project should say it all.

Who's left? Zurovec? How much longer until they pull out the good ol' politician excuse that he has to spend more time with his family?

and If by any chance anyone believes the game will look like that all I can do is lol.

Well, CIG is the one who never provided a high res video of it after claiming they would. If you've got better looking stills of those atrocious models in the Morrow tour, feel free to share them. Especially the geek with the haunting expression! He's my fav.

I'm sure it looks great in your dreams, but the reality of it so far isn't exactly spectacular. After a few years, I'm really tired of all the excuses for what they actually show and even MORE tired about what they claim will replace it. Why not just get it right the first time? Is there a coherent design for this game in place or is CR just winging it, picking up ideas from other games like silly putty and driving his devs mad by insisting they redo things to comply with the latest bee in his bonnet?

 

[Ozram]

Wrong. And I'm not in the mood to argue semantics.

This is what he claims I said:



This is what I actually said:

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/286576157938307072



And ED did NOT release in the originally pitched form. Let's not ignore or debate the merits of that particular furor when it happened, since this is not that forum.

And neither will Star Citizen seeing as they have already removed and/or have yet to implement things promised in the pitch to backers

The issue here is that he is - foolishly - trying to say that somehow, SC is going to be completed as pitched because I was - in his eyes - wrong (I wasn't) about ED when I said I wasn't convinced that it would in fact ship as pitched. Mind. Blown.

I am way too old, and far too experienced to be engaging in Strawman arguments. They're a waste of my time.

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Dude!! Stop! I damned near choked on my tea as I read that.

It takes some strong semantics to make the claim that your quote is not paraphrased reasonably accurately by proKar, but I'll let that go. As for SC, you're right. there's not a chance it will include even a fraction of the features it promises and that's if it's ever made. I imagine they'll put out some version of what they have now (but with faux "planetary" landing on noise maps with landing areas stitched on and a few added systems in record breakingly large download files), game breaking bugs and all, and call it the MVP with promises of future fixes and added features with no deadlines. As for SQ 42 I'm curious what will constitute a mission (likely a five minute romp between cutscenes). Eta 2020

 

[proKar_garlic]

Uh, not quite. It didn't burst out of the child genius' forehead fully formed... It was a game produced by Origin Systems, one of the most amazing game companies of the time full of incredibly talented developers that CR liked to take the credit for. That most of them have fled his recent project should say it all.

The game was pitched by Chris Roberts and it was indeed it's vision, there's multiple interviews about it with other people talking about it, ofc It was made by other very talented people, but the direction/vision/artstyle was Chris Roberts through and through.

I'm sure it looks great in your dreams, but the reality of it so far isn't exactly spectacular. After a few years, I'm really tired of all the excuses for what they actually show and even MORE tired about what they claim will replace it. Why not just get it right the first time? Is there a coherent design for this game in place or is CR just winging it, picking up ideas from other games like silly putty and driving his devs mad by insisting they redo things to comply with the latest bee in his bonnet?

Well game development is not linear by any means, you have so many disciplines that have to interconnect between them that it's impossible to get everything right at the first time. Just impossible, its iterative and exhausting for most of the time, it's not a pretty sight by all means. Besides the one who doesn't fall never learns how to stand up.

 

[jcrg99]

Wing Commander was a great game... so as Populous... if you know what I mean.

 

[milligna]

Star Citizen: game development is not linear by any means

Because sometimes it just goes in circles and gets nowhere.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Star Citizen: game development is not linear by any means

We just don't understand linear. The whole notion of there being a concept, a design, an agreed goal, development effort toward that goal, checking progress against those goals, defect management, testing of the product, putting together the product as designed, release of the product - it's all so linear it's perceived as not being game design.

CIG should really patent and sell on their development philosophy. It's far more entertaining than that Agile nonsense that has recently been puked up.

 

[jcrg99]

Squadron 42 missions... in case the game be realized will be great... I think. I take as a measure the missions of Freelancer and Starlancer and in that matter both games were superior in quality of missions than the original Wing Commander. They were fun and with twists etc. SQ42 probably will be superior to those, but probably won't make the noise that it could, due the advent of CoD on space, NMS, ME Andromeda series and other games... But Sq42 wont be any good before 2019. Buy Jpegs for that other game that they are making and that will never come out if you want at least to play a stable episode 1. Episodes 2 and 3 definitely will be vaporware too.

 

[knowles2]

The game was pitched by Chris Roberts and it was indeed it's vision, there's multiple interviews about it with other people talking about it, ofc It was made by other very talented people, but the direction/vision/artstyle was Chris Roberts through and through.


Well game development is not linear by any means, you have so many disciplines that have to interconnect between them that it's impossible to get everything right at the first time. Just impossible, its iterative and exhausting for most of the time, it's not a pretty sight by all means. Besides the one who doesn't fall never learns how to stand up.

Most teams today try to keep to a linear schedule ie plan it, design, produce it, not only because of financial reasons and publisher demands but also because it usually results in a better, more functional game produce in a faction of the time. Sometimes they will lo fi stuff and build basic versions ideas out.

Even the idea of taking parts of the team off to build demos seperate from the main production cycle with no intention to use the content or code in the main game is beginning to be phase out from the industry.

 

[metatheurgist]

Star Citizen: game development is not linear by any means

Because sometimes it just goes in circles and gets nowhere.

The game development is so linear, it's perceived as circular? Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Wing Commander was a game fully envisioned by a 23 year old game developer. The mere fact of comparing it with with a Star Wars game is a testament to its success. Besides, both games shined for completely different reasons in a similar setting. Wing Commander was more focused on character relations so It garnered more appreciation for people that wanted to "live" the story.
Both are legendary games. Actually I've never played Wing Commander, just read about it, I did yes played X-Wing and TieFighter in a friends house for hours, and he had a joystick! Very addictive.

ps- posting blurry screen-caps of a live stream is a very weak attempt of trolling, and If by any chance anyone believes the game will look like that all I can do is lol.

This video (August 2013) seemed to have slipped under the radar and should be shared imo (specially the first minutes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biCyzJI2V04

So you know how GREAT(WC) it was but you never play it by yourself?Well....I did play it....as I play almost any"known"game from 84'-85' until these days......It was really good but for me honestly never groundbreaking,back in the days I enjoyed some other games much more on my Amiga 500 then what it was WC....It was a bit cheesy for my taste I always look at WC like Top Gun in space but never the less I admit that game was very enjoyable and offer maybe for the first time space cockpit fights with that kind of "fidelity"&GFX.....Later on they released WC 2 and WC 3 all in all for 7 years it was around 10 mods/games of the WC franchise....and look CR now for 5 years,115 mil$ and with team of 300 "experts"he still battling with poor alpha inplementation that lacks in all game segments...That's the FACTS and seem's like ain't going to change that much until final release if that ever happens...