The Star Citizen Thread v5

[frostypaw]

More pertinently with Sq42's release in the coming 4 months much of the FPS/spaceflight/mission mechanics ought to be in late beta by now.... or does the explaining away cover that and we have a new date?

Trouble is if Sq42 comes out after COD:IW then it will have a HUGE a HUGE amount to live up to and no trump card of "this is the game that does everything" to claim yet. The clock is ticking fast on this one

 

[VidarSnipes]

In contrast to this negativity I think that 'magical Germans' will show some tangible progress after all. Through a careful analysis (and by that I mean pulling it out my ass) I assume that Frankfurt suffers the least amount of interference from CIG's management. Frankfurt is of small enough importance and lies far enough from LA (whics focuses on the CIG's image) or Manchester (where Chris' dreams of being a movie director reign supreme) to properly work on the game without having the results thrown out in the search for 'fidelity'.

 

[dsmart]

So let me ask you this, if someone obtained information about you through publicly available records and posted them online, by this logic, you wouldn't do anything about it since it's public and all, right?

Nice try. Here, let's try that again. Pay attention.

There isn't a SINGLE entity on the planet - let alone in social media, law enforcement, legal enforcement etc - who would ever claim that unveiling someone's social media profiles or publicly available info is doxing. It isn't - never was - and never will be, doxing.

Next read an article I wrote back in 2013 specifically about the subject

http://www.dereksmart.org/2013/11/doxing-a-primer/

Unlike you folks, I tend not to engage in discussions about subjects I am not familiar with. Plus, I have highly paid attorneys who, besides my liability insurance attorneys, ensure that whatever I do or say, is legal.

 

[briguy168]

It's been in alpha for over a year now. THAT is why it is being harped on because NO progress is being made. No, the garbage PeeYew is not progress - the core game still suffers from basic bugs and what does exist is nothing but triggers and shortcuts.

This is beyond it being labelled an alpha and at this point they should be towards the end of beta testing not refactoring netcode AGAIN.

Well your definition of game development nomenclature is very different than mine. From what I understand, an alpha is some semblance of a vertical slice that continually gets developed and mechanics added. Star Citizen's vertical slice is 2.0. Beta is when the alpha is feature complete with most of the major]/b] (read: game crashing) bugs fixed while also polishing and optimizing. With me so far? Release is when everything is all tied up in a nice bow that is running smoothly and only suffers from a few super rare or minor bugs.

So which one is Star Citizen right now. Cannot be beta because it's most certainly not feature complete and although it could be considered a release but then so is every early access game that is out now (I wonder how many games are still in early access??). So the most logical choice is alpha.

I'm going to make the assumption (like you seem to love to do) and guess that your definition of alpha, beta and release are based on timescales and not level of completeness.

But it doesn't matter, because we are supposed to see and understand your subjective opinion while stating individuals that don't agree with you need to state facts and only argue facts while you yourself are not which truly highlights the absolute fact that you think your opinion and viewpoint is above everyone else's. It's in every thing you state, you feel like you are "holier than thou."

This is a flat out no. I don't think my opinions are "holier than thou", conversely though, no one has convincing me enough to question the opinions that I hold. In fact the only two topics that I have changed my stance on are CIG's ToS and what is considered to be in the game. The DA crap, flight model, physics...,etc; no evidence has proven that you are right and just the same to me. See this whole Star Citizen argument is based on idealism vs. realism.

Note, this is a subjective opinion: "[just addressed this]" and this: "Who cares if the thrusters don't accurately animate; who cares if the current physics are "broken"; not even going to address "fake PG landing" because if it's in the code base, it's in the game."

never said it wasn't an opinion. Out of all the posts I created, you choose this one; the one where I got frustrated with the person I was responding to because they kept on saying the same crap, over and over again. If I must, I will explain myself. One, only the      retentive care about "thrusters not animating accurately" especially when a valid reason why they don't is available, perhaps not to your satisfaction but it was explained nonetheless. Two, I specifically added current and quoted broken because yes right now some of the physics simulations are a bit broken; however, most people outside of this forum here DON"T CARE enough about it to harp on it. And three, while yes we cannot play with procedural planets or planet landings yet, this doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Obviously it exists or there wouldn't be videos of the CryEngine editor or screenshots. Ergo, it cannot be "fake" and is simply splitting hairs.

You complain about any but yourself using opinions instead of facts but you are almost all opinions and extraneous statements not based in fact other than what you want to portray

FTFY. I do believe that I have posted a few times where I wriete " this is my personal [subjective] opinion. The difference is that I at least make an effort to acknowledge when I use my personal opinions, instead of stating them as if they're the holy grail. (see I can make a religious reference too )

which codebase? The non-active code in the SC data clients use or the codebase that supposedly everything runs great in but is heavily protected by RSI/CIG that will fix everything when they decide to release it?, it is somehow in game. That's not how it works, not at all. If it isn't active, it isn't "in game."

You know which code base I'm talking about, their MAIN stream or branch....the one they continually develop on. It's certainly not the big super awesome build that will fix all but it will get there eventually.

This "game" will be "in alpha" forever, so I guess no one can ever complain about the shoddy state it is in when games announced AFTER SC's kickstarter began development are about to be released went from just an idea to "Gold" in the same time it took SC to go from pre-alpha-in-development to pre-alpha that it is erroneous anyone should wonder what the fudge is going on with this awful development process.

Seems like someone is projecting their impatience. Obviously people here care that it is "still" in alpha but I think I know a majority of a community that don't care about how long it's being developed or the amount of time it's taken to get some core mechanics in. Actually, I think the majority of the people outside both of our communities don't care one iota.

That's also another thing, you say we should just sit back and do something else until this game is done... I've done just that for almost 3 years now. Periodically checking in on it, testing it out, and finding no progress towards even a stable base of a game to build off of. So no, sitting back I've already done - it's time for them to poop or get off the pot and admit they don't know what they heck they are doing and it will be years before anything comes out so start gifting people free stuff for whatever does come out. Stop selling shirts, start making good on the promises they made for kickstarter items like physical stuff such as models and USB sticks and what-not that do not rely on coding but they can't because they burned the money on non-game making items for themselves.

What is with this put up or shut up mentality; why are you so eager for this game to release; why does it need to be released so fast; are you always this impatient; why isn't "it will release when it's ready" good enough? I'm not being rhetorical, I honestly want to know why it is you have this opinion.

 

[dsmart]

You're missing the point, on purpose it seems.

Roberts and wife uploaded pictures of their children onto IMDB with the intent of getting them exposure so they could eventually be movie stars or something like that. Doxxing would be if someone was seeking out embarassing or sensitive information and posting it in public. The intent of doxxing is to bring forth information into a public spotlight which you do NOT want in a public spotlight.

If you upload your own children's photographs onto a public gallery on imdb, I challenge you to argue that you didn't intend for the images you uploaded with the intent of maximising visibility, being linked to by someone else.

This whole "doxxing" argument is simply a distraction to try and devalue any points raised by dsmart.

Yes - it is. And as ridiculous as it sounds, they keep clinging onto it.

What's even more hilarious is that as much as Chris and Sandi hate me already, to think that they'd have a legal recourse to sue me, yet choose not to pursue it. That aside from Chris and Ortwin writing up baseless and empty threats which don't scare anyone, let alone me.

 

[Osmanthus]

If he thought stages of development were based on time elapsed, then he would be calling Star Citizen a released product by now. You, however, seem to think that alpha and vertical slice are the same thing, and yet this product is not even a vertical slice.

 

[dsmart]

I think the sentiment of people who treat this as doxxing is that what DS did brings extra attention to a person that otherwise would be unknown to the vitriolic community that is gamers. It has opened up an avenue for extraordinary and malicious dives into a person's life. Since there is no evidence of anyone taking the loose lead that is CR's son's imdb page to cause harm to the boy or the family I can't see that there is any negative outcome of what DS did. Like I said earlier, it is low risk PID. Now, I don't think it is very classy or effective to bring the kid up in the first place, I also don't think any real harm has occurred, mostly because this IS low risk PID that has very little likelihood of leading to more PID which is actually valuable.

For the record - and the hilarious part is - I wasn't even the one who located and posted the info. It appeared in my Twitter feed by someone who did (as a way of proving me right that Sandi and Chris were married, and those where their kids - something they had kept hidden until I broke the news), and I re-tweeted it only as additional proof (I had already seen their marriage documents which proved they were married. I never made them public).

Here's the kicker. A CIG shill named MoMa, decided that he was going to dig up public records on me, and post in the thread. What did he come up with? A moving violation (speeding ticket, which was disputed, and discharged) which wasn't even mine; as I wasn't the driver of the vehicle (which was mine). That information is only in the govt. record if you use a db search, or go to the court house for it. At another time, some crazies on /r/ds/ dug up old public info related to IRS bills (here in the US, owing the IRS anything about $10K, is an automatic public record lien) attributed to me. Never in their wildest dreams, did they once - before being banned, and the data removed - consider any of that to be doxing. These are the people we're arguing with.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Exactly...legalities come into play around how the information is obtained (hacking, social engineering, privileged access, etc) and also how the information is used. The information in question is publicly available and requires no approval or connection to permit access...it is truly public information for everyone to see and use.

Now, if someone took that information to aide in their stalking or revealing more information then the act of doing that would be illegal as it presents an existential threat. Posting the data about yourself or those in your legal care assumes that you understand the potential risks that come with that.

Use the imdb page as a reference to make some point, any point, is not illegal. It might be argued that this was done open up harassment against the boy, but that hasn't happened and the information in the imdb page (or any imdb page) is not sufficeint to launch such an attack.


But really, why are we going on about this again. It came up like two version of this thread before and it always comes to the same conclusion...

It wasn't cool for DS to bring the kid in it, but he did for the purpose of proving the CR and Sandi relationship that was being denied, at the time. It is a reference that provides irrefutable proof for the point DS was making. I don't like it, since I don't think nepotism should be that much a surprise here but it was used as a reference, that is all.

Nothing bad has happened to the kid...so we are just going 'round and 'round over milk that wasn't even spilled.

Let's just forget the kid going forward since it is well established now that CR and Sandi are a family unit.

<Ahem>

 

[dsmart]

Could be wrong but their daughter was in the promotional video for Star Citizen. Perhaps that is why she is on imdb.

Both the kids are in it

https://youtu.be/kp_eYvXhx5c?t=38

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

There you have it, being obsessed with one individual, collating, analysing and mocking everything he posts in a dedicated subreddit is okay because it's not doxing...

Funny

Oh the irony.

Meanwhile, as I type this, there is an active thread accusing me of "stalking" (criminal conduct) Sandi.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Demanding accountability from the people responsible for the ills of the current "progress" with Star Citizen, would require said people to actually look at themselves and the fact their actions, namely throwing money at Chris Roberts to build their "dream game" whilst simultaneously making ever more outlandish excuses to explain away the many problems surrounding the project, would expose them to the folly of such actions.

So instead of doing the right thing and asking the CIG top brass what's really going on, these people would rather bury their heads into the sand and point at the true "evil" causing all the malignancy in Star Citizen and Squadron 42; Derek Smart.

^this

 

[McGlashan]

1) CIG do this thing every month called a "Free Fly Week"

This is actually a big part of the reason I have trouble believing there has been any significant progress out of the public view. They're still relying on the current, unfathomably broken and feature-poor PU build as a fundraising tool. If they had anything that worked better then why wouldn't they fast-track it into the public alpha so that potential backers don't think they've installed some teenager's Steam Greenlight candidate by mistake? Because spoilers?

How much money did the last FFW bring in? Didn't someone say it was the least profitable month for CIG in years?

If this year's Gamescom and especially Citizencon come and go with nothing more than reheated PG promo videos and Star Marine reboot nonsense, they're going to be too far behind the curve to ever recover in my opinion. They'll reach a point where everyone else has not only caught up but overtaken them, and then Roberts will want to start over. He'll have no choice if he wants to release something that doesn't look hopelessly outdated by the time release is even a possibility. The same problem that Duke Nukem Forever had (more than once, IIRC).

 

[dsmart]

1) I remember how r/ds was criticising Derek for encouraging people to play free fly week. E: eh, I retract that actually, looks like it wasn't r/ds. Creepy place though, it's surreal seeing all these posts about the guy. Shouldn't it be reported as a hate sub?
2 and 3) just lol

Actually it was. There's an entire thread about that, right now, on there.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Well your definition of game development nomenclature is very different than mine. From what I understand, an alpha is some semblance of a vertical slice that continually gets developed and mechanics added. Star Citizen's vertical slice is 2.0. Beta is when the alpha is feature complete with most of the major]/b] (read: game crashing) bugs fixed while also polishing and optimizing. With me so far? Release is when everything is all tied up in a nice bow that is running smoothly and only suffers from a few super rare or minor bugs.

Wrong.

And you're not a developer or you would know precisely what a vertical slice is. Try looking that up.

Star Citizen - as it currently stands in 2.5, does not have a vertical slice. It's not an Alpha. It's probably borderline irresponsible to even call it a pre-Alpha. It's merely a proof-of-concept tech demo.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

This is actually a big part of the reason I have trouble believing there has been any significant progress out of the public view. They're still relying on the current, unfathomably broken and feature-poor PU build as a fundraising tool. If they had anything that worked better then why wouldn't they fast-track it into the public alpha so that potential backers don't think they've installed some teenager's Steam Greenlight candidate by mistake? Because spoilers?

How much money did the last FFW bring in? Didn't someone say it was the least profitable month for CIG in years?

If this year's Gamescom and especially Citizencon come and go with nothing more than reheated PG promo videos and Star Marine reboot nonsense, they're going to be too far behind the curve to ever recover in my opinion. They'll reach a point where everyone else has not only caught up but overtaken them, and then Roberts will want to start over. He'll have no choice if he wants to release something that doesn't look hopelessly outdated by the time release is even a possibility. The same problem that Duke Nukem Forever had (more than once, IIRC).

They have nothing. All they're going to do are move videos and/or play throughs of custom builds running in a sandbox environment.

 

[FuriousMeow]

1) CIG do this thing every month called a "Free Fly Week" but then again you've probably never noticed if you spend all your time on a forum engaged in Tribalism and creating "conspiracy theories ".

Who are you posting to? I don't get free fly weeks - I get paid for constant reminders of the garbage that is SC. Oh, and as far as the "fly fly weeks" - only backers were supposed to be eligible for alpha access.

My, oh my, how the lies fly.

 

[Osmanthus]

This is actually a big part of the reason I have trouble believing there has been any significant progress out of the public view. They're still relying on the current, unfathomably broken and feature-poor PU build as a fundraising tool. If they had anything that worked better then why wouldn't they fast-track it into the public alpha so that potential backers don't think they've installed some teenager's Steam Greenlight candidate by mistake? Because spoilers?

How much money did the last FFW bring in? Didn't someone say it was the least profitable month for CIG in years?

If this year's Gamescom and especially Citizencon come and go with nothing more than reheated PG promo videos and Star Marine reboot nonsense, they're going to be too far behind the curve to ever recover in my opinion. They'll reach a point where everyone else has not only caught up but overtaken them, and then Roberts will want to start over. He'll have no choice if he wants to release something that doesn't look hopelessly outdated by the time release is even a possibility. The same problem that Duke Nukem Forever had (more than once, IIRC).

Now watch as this jim fella completely disregards the points made in this post and fail to realize that you've also just disproved his point

 

[briguy168]

Nice try. Here, let's try that again. Pay attention.

I asked, if someone used the same tactics that you used and posted your information online, would you pursue them. This "There isn't a SINGLE entity on the planet - let alone in social media, law enforcement, legal enforcement etc - who would ever claim that unveiling someone's social media profiles or publicly available info is doxing. It isn't - never was - and never will be, doxing." still doesn't answer my question or are you re-quoting this because it isn't doxxing and therefore you will not pursue people?

Anyway, mod came on here a few pages back and said to drop this topic so I'm done.

 

[FuriousMeow]

Well your definition of game development nomenclature is very different than mine. From what I understand, an alpha is some semblance of a vertical slice that continually gets developed and mechanics added. Star Citizen's vertical slice is 2.0. Beta is when the alpha is feature complete with most of the major]/b] (read: game crashing) bugs fixed while also polishing and optimizing. With me so far? Release is when everything is all tied up in a nice bow that is running smoothly and only suffers from a few super rare or minor bugs.

From what you understand is wrong, so it isn't a definition because you choose to define things how you want but there is very much a fixed development cycle. An alpha is not a vertical slice, an alpha is a product that is a demonstrable stable base for core features and mechanics. That is not what SC is.

So which one is Star Citizen right now. Cannot be beta because it's most certainly not feature complete and although it could be considered a release but then so is every early access game that is out now (I wonder how many games are still in early access??). So the most logical choice is alpha.

I'm going to make the assumption (like you seem to love to do) and guess that your definition of alpha, beta and release are based on timescales and not level of completeness.

This is a flat out no. I don't think my opinions are "holier than thou", conversely though, no one has convincing me enough to question the opinions that I hold. In fact the only two topics that I have changed my stance on are CIG's ToS and what is considered to be in the game. The DA crap, flight model, physics...,etc; no evidence has proven that you are right and just the same to me. See this whole Star Citizen argument is based on idealism vs. realism.

That is a flat out evident yes - you do think what you state holds more water than others. It's evident in many of your posts. I only chose two because I had better things to do with my time - like playing a functionally working game that has been in development the same amount of time as SC and the funny thing is, you don't even know what of the myriad games out there I'm talking about. It could be a space game that is far ahead of SC or it could be another game that has a more advanced "flight model" and "damage model" with more features and a larger play area than SC. Who knows?

never said it wasn't an opinion. Out of all the posts I created, you choose this one; the one where I got frustrated with the person I was responding to because they kept on saying the same crap, over and over again. If I must, I will explain myself. One, only the retentive care about "thrusters not animating accurately" especially when a valid reason why they don't is available, perhaps not to your satisfaction but it was explained nonetheless. Two, I specifically added current and quoted broken because yes right now some of the physics simulations are a bit broken; however, most people outside of this forum here DON"T CARE enough about it to harp on it. And three, while yes we cannot play with procedural planets or planet landings yet, this doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Obviously it exists or there wouldn't be videos of the CryEngine editor or screenshots. Ergo, it cannot be "fake" and is simply splitting hairs.

I have better things to do with my time than go through all of your posts, but they are all the same. Your opinion matters more, and it is quite evident by the fact that you get frustrated with others but you don't realize they are just as frustrated with you - if not more so for your constant deflection and deviation.

FTFY. I do believe that I have posted a few times where I wriete " this is my personal [subjective] opinion. The difference is that I at least make an effort to acknowledge when I use my personal opinions, instead of stating them as if they're the holy grail. (see I can make a religious reference too )

Nope, you have stated in the same posts that people need to base their responses on facts like you do and then a few sentences later state a complete opinion. Actually, that post I cited that "was the only one I focused on" had that. Or maybe it was the post prior, actually doesn't matter because you have done that several times.

You know which code base I'm talking about, their MAIN stream or branch....the one they continually develop on. It's certainly not the big super awesome build that will fix all but it will get there eventually.

No, I don't. The code base we actually have on our systems that absolutely does not have any of that in any format? Or the one that exists in the ethereal that you are so sure exists? Because you are starting to expose yourself as a faithful and not a realist. It does not exist in game unless it can be executed on the client's front end. Since all things you claim to exist in codebase are not executable on the client's frontend, they do not exist.

Seems like someone is projecting their impatience. Obviously people here care that it is "still" in alpha but I think I know a majority of a community that don't care about how long it's being developed or the amount of time it's taken to get some core mechanics in. Actually, I think the majority of the people outside both of our communities don't care one iota.

Aside from the fact that "projecting impatience" is absolutely ridiculous - I am stating absolutely and unequivocally they have long passed any chance of being on track or in any sort of development time table beyond that of a Duke Nukem Forever or Daikatana or Spore or Too Human or etc that will result in an absolute turd, well it already is an absolute turd and they haven't fixed any of the turd issues for over a year now so it isn't impatience it's actually pointing out the obvious to anyone that is realistic.

What is with this put up or shut up mentality; why are you so eager for this game to release; why does it need to be released so fast; are you always this impatient; why isn't "it will release when it's ready" good enough? I'm not being rhetorical, I honestly want to know why it is you have this opinion.

"Released so fast" "impatient" You are being rhetorical and actually quite absolutely delusional. 3 years to see something that isn't what is currently there, which is an absolutely terrible abomination of frankencode, is not anything you have said. As a matter of fact, it is the obvious that individuals like yourself are absolutely choosing to be blind to - it is a terrible mess.

But it doesn't matter, you will keep excusing it and keep insisting it's on track, and keep going on about people being impatient to see some progress in getting the core features right and fixing bugs like hitching where players just fall through solid objects or like the simple ability to easily assign various hotas axis which is still an absolute pain in the ass if you have multiple devices which is something other games that began development after SC have totally nailed down easily among the myriad of other absolutely ridiculous things that permeate this abomination of a cryengine techdemo mod.

The more you post the more it is obvious you think this is normal, and it isn't. This is the terrible games that are in development forever that are going to be absolutely genre changing and then they come out with a loud wet flop covered in the flop-sweat of their inept visionary that was going to revolutionize gaming.

There is no secret branch or codebase or stream or whatever you want to call it - there has never been in the history of game development some hidden ultimate version that will fix everything and make it all better, and absolutely will not be happening with a hackjob "developer" from the '90s that used other people's engines but had to be replaced for most of his successful games by other managers to get a game out of the door.

 

[SkUnimatrix]

If SC backers subscribed to that line of thinking they would've never backed in the first place. I've seen some of them say that even if SC never comes out they've already got their money's worth because "they invested in a dream and were able to live it". Some of these people are too far gone to reason with.

$40 during the KS era to help revive and show the industry there was an untapped market for space sim games...worth it. Even if SC never lived up to expectations. But those who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars....yeah they're going to be in for a reality check. I remember what happened around here when the reality of release set in about Elite: Dangerous and the fact it wasn't going to be what everyone wanted.

 

[SkUnimatrix]

What is with this put up or shut up mentality; why are you so eager for this game to release; why does it need to be released so fast; are you always this impatient; why isn't "it will release when it's ready" good enough? I'm not being rhetorical, I honestly want to know why it is you have this opinion.

I know in my case because they've had a product released to our hard drives for 2 years that largely still has many of the same issues identified 2 years ago still not addressed. If they had a solid foundation including things like flight model & controller balance figured out with a decent enough netcode that it was at least playable....well I wouldn't be here in this thread. If they had been able to reliable demonstrate the ability to put out a quality product I don't think many of us would be here, but they haven't. All they seem to be able to do is show us shiny JPEG's and tell us how great and wonderful things might be...some day....after they reach a minimum viable product....which was the goal....for release in 2014.

I think the worst part is to talk to people who haven't payed much attention to the development coming on Teamspeak and talking about features that got them excited 3 - 4 years ago. Features you may have forgotten totally about that are now on the scrap heap like a drop in/out squadron 42 campaign. Or being able to explore and name star systems and planets you discover, etc..

 

[ripptide]

Since they like to point to it so often, I think the biggest question I have is: If PCGamer (Ger) was actually playing a full up, complete surface to space branch of the code, with no bugs etc, why are they only doing the limited amount outlined for 2.5-2.7? As far as many of the faithful are concerned, this is the paramount truth to destroy us "negative nellies". So please, give me a good, solid, logical reason why it hasn't been even released to PTU?



I'll be happy to wait till you come up with something.....

 

[Ian Phillips]

Anyway, mod came on here a few pages back and said to drop this topic so I'm done.

Thank you.

 

[ripptide]

I know in my case because they've had a product released to our hard drives for 2 years that largely still has many of the same issues identified 2 years ago still not addressed. If they had a solid foundation including things like flight model & controller balance figured out with a decent enough netcode that it was at least playable....well I wouldn't be here in this thread. If they had been able to reliable demonstrate the ability to put out a quality product I don't think many of us would be here, but they haven't. All they seem to be able to do is show us shiny JPEG's and tell us how great and wonderful things might be...some day....after they reach a minimum viable product....which was the goal....for release in 2014.

I think the worst part is to talk to people who haven't payed much attention to the development coming on Teamspeak and talking about features that got them excited 3 - 4 years ago. Features you may have forgotten totally about that are now on the scrap heap like a drop in/out squadron 42 campaign. Or being able to explore and name star systems and planets you discover, etc..

Add into that the litany of broken promises (not talking about delivery dates here), questionable policy flip flops, complete silence on the part of CIG, whenever they do either of the previous, unless the forums erupt in flames, and then addressing it with reasons which would insult anyone with an IQ above standing water,....the list goes on. The missed delivery points/lack of progress are, I believe for many, simply the final, tangible evidence needed to show that all is not well in Camelot.

edit: Sorry Ian, I'll be good...)

 

[Toumal]

I think the worst part is to talk to people who haven't payed much attention to the development coming on Teamspeak and talking about features that got them excited 3 - 4 years ago. Features you may have forgotten totally about that are now on the scrap heap like a drop in/out squadron 42 campaign. Or being able to explore and name star systems and planets you discover, etc..

Then again, said features might be brought back to the limelight on a whim, like Star Marine.
Or, it is claimed that said features are already in the currently released tech demo. Like Star Marine.

I'd like all the avid SC fans to try this one on for size: You guys who kept parroting that Star Marine is already in the game because Chris Roberts said so, what do you say to the fact that CR himself said that Star Marine "might come back" a few weeks ago? No lights going on? No self-reflection?

Does it not occur to you that you've been parroting... ahem... bovine prandial by-product?