The Star Citizen Thread v5

[McGlashan]

The difference with Hello Games and CIG is that CIG hasn't had a problem to correct expectations (even if a little late), while Hello Games kept the expectations high and wouldn't even retract on its statements after release of the game.

Of course they haven't had that problem, because they haven't delivered a game. But one day Star Citizen will either reach what Roberts considers the MVP, or else the project will collapse, but either way there will be a point at which CIG has to face up to failing to deliver on the countless unrealistic expectations of its fans. That's not even a criticism of CIG, because the fans are also projecting their own delusional notions of the BDSSE onto the game, regardless of what Roberts promises, just like they did with NMS. Which is why, even if they did manage to deliver on their promises, they wouldn't be able to satisfy expectations. The backlash is inevitable.

But another difference compared with NMS is that CIG is actively pumping out hours of propaganda. Sean Murray is on the record as having made a handful of comments about a couple of features which weren't in the final game, and there are a handful of points you can make by picking apart their otherwise quite representative trailers, but beyond that they did nothing to "keep expectations high", or at least not as stratospheric as they were. CIG is actively complicit in whipping up the hype for SC, with Roberts himself repeatedly describing all sorts of fanciful mechanics that they'll never deliver. That will come back to bite him, big time. It already has on countless occasions (Star Marine, for example).

 

[IceGryphon]

Sure. He promised to release end 2014.

Where did he promose to do that? It was an estimation, a plan, which has changed. I don't see how you could mistake an estimation for a release date with a promise.

He had a stretch goal that promised to release it before that. It was met. He didnt release in 2014, even though people specifically gave him money based on his promise to deliver early.

Source please.

He didnt release in 2015 either. He did say they were planning to release the first episode of Sq42 within 8 months and SC the next year. Guess what: that didnt happen either.

Exactly, they were planning to do that. Plans don't have a requirement to work out the way originally intended. A Plan is not a promise.

Then the new aim was to release the first episode of SQ42 in 2016, and we stopped talking about releasing SC altogether. It doesnt look like SQ releases this year either, so we'll move that to 2017 with SC releasing in 2018? 2019? Next decade?

The 2016 date as i've already mentioned is the first date which actually represents a release date (or time frame in which the release date falls) and i totally understand people being        about that one. My impression is that SQ42 will be released in early to mid 2017 with SC having its initial release in 2018 (which would make it 6 years of development, which isn't bad for a MMO).

If your roadmap says 'we'll be done in a year', and five years later your roadmap says 'we'll be done in a bunch of years', something went horribly wrong.

Scope changed, Design quality changed, Requirements changed. Compare the original trailer of the crowdfunding campaign to anything produced these days and you will be able to see that.

 

[Neo-ST]

Indeed It seems there were a good deal of people convinced that CitizenCon would contain an announcement for a holiday release.

Hmm, the translation of that video was interesting. Sad that they have missed the 2016 release for Sq42. When CR said on the BBC segment that they really hoped / needed to have it out by end of year, I expected that to be the case...

The other thing of interest was what I have suspected might be a new narrative ahead of MVP release: "The gameplay in SC is limitless, because it is mainly formed in the imagination of you and your friends..."

Don't worry guys, you can rest assured and comfort yourselves that we will be playing AC 3.0 very soon, even before New year!

 

[Asp Explorer]

Don't worry guys, you can rest assured and comfort yourselves that we will be playing AC 3.0 very soon, even before New year!

Weeks, not months!

 

[IceGryphon]

Of course they haven't had that problem, because they haven't delivered a game. But one day Star Citizen will either reach what Roberts considers the MVP, or else the project will collapse, but either way there will be a point at which CIG has to face up to failing to deliver on the countless unrealistic expectations of its fans. That's not even a criticism of CIG, because the fans are also projecting their own delusional notions of the BDSSE onto the game, regardless of what Roberts promises, just like they did with NMS. Which is why, even if they did manage to deliver on their promises, they wouldn't be able to satisfy expectations. The backlash is inevitable.

It's true they haven't delivered a game yet, which gives them plenty time to correct expectations of the release of the game, Hello Games doesn't have this time anymore. They failed to correct these expectations before the release, which is exactly my point.

But another difference compared with NMS is that CIG is actively pumping out hours of propaganda.

It's community interaction content payed for by subscribers. I would worry if CIG wouldn't do that and just cash in on subscribers without delivering on community interaction.

Sean Murray is on the record as having made a handful of comments about a couple of features which weren't in the final game, and there are a handful of points you can make by picking apart their otherwise quite representative trailers, but beyond that they did nothing to "keep expectations high", or at least not as stratospheric as they were. CIG is actively complicit in whipping up the hype for SC, with Roberts himself repeatedly describing all sorts of fanciful mechanics that they'll never deliver. That will come back to bite him, big time. It already has on countless occasions (Star Marine, for example).

There are numerous feature which weren't in the final game, even features that are as game changing as multiplayer. But let's not drift into a discussion about NMS, it sure is a good game, just not the game people expected it to be.

 

[Neo-ST]

Weeks, not months!

AC 3.0 is actually already available (internally), they're just working on the last minute polish before release, as it is known by now (and expected) that each iteration is perfectly stable and bug free on release.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Come on, find me another game with such high fidelity in their delays. There's none, because CIG is 5 years ahead of the rest of the industry. Period.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Aahh, but are these high fidelity delays hand crafted or procedurally generated?

 

[McGlashan]

Hmm, the translation of that video was interesting. Sad that they have missed the 2016 release for Sq42. When CR said on the BBC segment that they really hoped / needed to have it out by end of year, I expected that to be the case...

The other thing of interest was what I have suspected might be a new narrative ahead of MVP release: "The gameplay in SC is limitless, because it is mainly formed in the imagination of you and your friends..."

Or, to put it another way, you can't blame CIG for failing to deliver the game play, it's your own fault for not having enough imagination to fill in the gaps.

And, as expected, the S42 blocker isn't art assets, it's "basic systems". Five years into development. Because, guess what? If there's no FPS AI in the PTU, there probably isn't any in S42 either.

 

[Neo-ST]

Aahh, but are these high fidelity delays hand crafted or procedurally generated?

It is well known that procedural generation is used by the low budget B-games, so what do you think infidel ?!

 

[Ian Skippy]

Where did he promose to do that? It was an estimation, a plan, which has changed. I don't see how you could mistake an estimation for a release date with a promise.



Source please.



Exactly, they were planning to do that. Plans don't have a requirement to work out the way originally intended. A Plan is not a promise.



The 2016 date as i've already mentioned is the first date which actually represents a release date (or time frame in which the release date falls) and i totally understand people being about that one. My impression is that SQ42 will be released in early to mid 2017 with SC having its initial release in 2018 (which would make it 6 years of development, which isn't bad for a MMO).



Scope changed, Design quality changed, Requirements changed. Compare the original trailer of the crowdfunding campaign to anything produced these days and you will be able to see that.

No, its not: http://archive.is/4B1Q5#selection-371.0-375.463

They said it might take a while, unless people pitch in and then it'll be done in 2014 with the extra money. Thats a promise. For which he charged money. We're now two years after the deadline, and your expectation is still 'within two years'. The release of SC came literally not a single day closer in four years. By the way, if you look at what would be in the 'simple 2014' version you'll notice the vast majority of that isn't even in the game. Its not as if SC exploded with a million awesome new features, you havent even gotten the basic stuff and whatever little you have is bugged beyond believe. All you got in those extra two years are hollow promises.

 

[Asp Explorer]

It is well known that procedural generation is used by the low budget B-games, so what do you think infidel ?!

It's got to be procedural then

 

[darkoff]

People in this thread have already posted an example for an updated roadmap which doesn't show a 2014 release date. Regarding Star Marine, the release of a specific feature during the development of SC is irrelevant to the discussion of the release date of the actual game (as there is none, except for the 2016 release date of SQ42).



Even if CIG had or has plenty of problems with correcting expectations (of course they have as hearing SC release will be a MVP version fanboys won't swallow lightly), they still try to correct expectations before the actual release of the game, something Hello Games haven't done, would you agree on that?

pretty much true ppl have posted those roadmaps several darn roadmaps some that even say that module will be completed in 2 weeks.
Theres pretty much 0 credibility with roadmaps of chris now.

Hello games actually offered refunds for delaying their game by 2 months.Its not even promised in TOS
meanwhile at CIG ...
And actually your correct star citizen wont never be complete. Because if it was complete ppl would just rip it apart same fate as hello games.
The only difference between no man sky hype and star citizen hype was the fact that no man sky got released. Is this a statement your willing to agree on?

Where did he promose to do that? It was an estimation, a plan, which has changed. I don't see how you could mistake an estimation for a release date with a promise.
Source please.

The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public. We are going to limit our alpha slots to 200,000 as we want to stress test the game with real users, but will not be ready for the full load until we have finished Beta.

Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work which is why we can show you not just concept art and a cinematic trailer, but an extensive demo of actual game play. So, we are confident that even with limited means we will be able to deliver an amazing experience.

also chris is talking about weekly updates to game. weeks to make systems instead of years.
[video]https://ksr-video.imgix.net/projects/365324/video-171354-h264_high.mp4[/video]
Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description
not only that as source heres later stream with david braben chris did.
https://youtu.be/CGE0_WSHGHc?t=532 he throws a aproximate with leeway of 2 or 3 months

 

[Tippis]

A Plan is not a promise.

It's utterly ridiculous that the defence of SC has come to such an absurd point as this.

Could you please define “promise”?

 

[IceGryphon]

No, its not: http://archive.is/4B1Q5#selection-371.0-375.463

They said it might take a while, unless people pitch in and then it'll be done in 2014 with the extra money. Thats a promise. For which he charged money. We're now two years after the deadline, and your expectation is still 'within two years'. The release of SC came literally not a single day closer in four years. By the way, if you look at what would be in the 'simple 2014' version you'll notice the vast majority of that isn't even in the game. Its not as if SC exploded with a million awesome new features, you havent even gotten the basic stuff and whatever little you have is bugged beyond believe. All you got in those extra two years are hollow promises.

This is getting really tiring, it's part of the original campaign as the plan was to develop SQ42 first and SC afterwards instead of developing them in parallel as they do now. I already explained that plans changed when the original campaign didn't end, but was continued as part of a community decission, after having reached the funding milestone of 23 million (making them independent on investors), it was than decided to continue funding and increase the scope successively, after the 65 million milestone it was stated that every extra dollar in funding would go straight into developing a better experience for the players, which i have no problem believing seeing the visual difference when comparing the original trailer, first iterations of the hangar or ship models, with the current ones. With increased funding the scope increased, anyone thinking that this wouldn't have had an effect on the estimated 2014 release date has been delusional. A alpha version of a game that is bugged, that's horrendous.

 

[Tippis]

There are numerous feature which weren't in the final game, even features that are as game changing as multiplayer.

So… how many features is Chris allowed to drop from the voluminous list in order to achieve the “MVP”? At what point will he not have delivered the promised product?

 

[Ian Skippy]

also chris is talking about weekly updates to game. weeks to make systems instead of years.
[video]https://ksr-video.imgix.net/projects/365324/video-171354-h264_high.mp4[/url]
Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description
not only that as source heres later stream with david braben chris did.
https://youtu.be/CGE0_WSHGHc?t=532 he throws a aproximate with leeway of 2 or 3 months

Even if you can make a system 'in a few weeks', they still promised 100 of them and they currently have zero complete systems. So even *if* it is correct, thats still over two years just for creating the space itself. Interestingly 18 months ago they expected to have gone from 0 systems to 100 in 2016. Instead, they managed to go from 0 to half a system. They managed to do 0.5% of the planned work. In the next six months, they;ll add almost another .5% if things go to plan. Thats 1% of the progress they temselves expected in two years.

 

[Tippis]

This is getting really tiring, it's part of the original campaign as the plan was to develop SQ42 first and SC afterwards instead of developing them in parallel as they do now.

Really? Why is there no mention of this on the kickstarter page?

With increased funding the scope increased, anyone thinking that this wouldn't have had an effect on the estimated 2014 release date has been delusional.

That would be Chris, then, since he very clearly stated that the exact opposite would happen…

 

[McGlashan]

It's true they haven't delivered a game yet, which gives them plenty time to correct expectations of the release of the game, Hello Games doesn't have this time anymore. They failed to correct these expectations before the release, which is exactly my point.

Like when Roberts corrected expectations (based on his own comments) about Star Marine last year? As I recall his "correction" was that "it's already in the game". They're not going to correct anything, or do anything that might harm their income stream. At most they'll move the goalposts, and then apologists will claim that was what they promised all along.

It's community interaction content payed for by subscribers. I would worry if CIG wouldn't do that and just cash in on subscribers without delivering on community interaction.

That's your opinion of its value. As I backer I find their video output to be entirely worthless. But the point wasn't about its perceived value, it was that it exemplifies CIG actively contributing to the hype in a way that Hello Games didn't.

There are numerous feature which weren't in the final game, even features that are as game changing as multiplayer. But let's not drift into a discussion about NMS, it sure is a good game, just not the game people expected it to be.

There are a handful. And multiplayer was never touted as "game changing" in the way people like you clearly assumed. The most he ever said was that you'd be able to see other players, but that it would be so rare that it wouldn't probably never happen, hardly how you'd promote a core feature. But lets not drift off into facts. Lets see how many features make it into SC's MVP.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

This is getting really tiring,<snip> With increased funding the scope increased, anyone thinking that this wouldn't have had an effect on the estimated 2014 release date has been delusional.

I'm sure the CR quote about "stretch goals will not affect delivery date, because your money makes it all possible" is winging its way to us right now