The Star Citizen Thread v5
- Thread starter Brett C
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Doesn't matter, backers aren't investors so they have no right to look at financials. You can surmise, pontificate or pantomime until your blue in the face about it; however, until crowdfunding becomes synonymous with investing or CPA protects against it, you have no point.
Any individual thing with CIG or SC, when taken individually, would probably amount to a very small concern. Where it becomes more than that is when the continuous chain of:
- at best, mis-leading sales terminology, advertising things as "last chance you can get this" or "won't be offered again", except it isn't, and it will be;
- changes to items already sold (and no, I'm not talking about stats, or balancing etc, I'm talking changes to the item that significantly alter it from the original offer);
- outright breaking, re-defining, then re-breaking their own policies;
- ambiguous explanations about core mechanics after 3-4 years, when Design documents should have been nailed down long before now;
- outright insulting explanations (can you say database schmeg Johnny?) for things that show a clear disrespect for the people;
- promising the moon and stars, then talking about Minimum Viable Product (and not specifically defining what would be considered MVP), and then reinforcing it with a new ToS which absolves them of actually delivering anything as long as they claim they are still working on it....
Need I add more? The sad part is, I can. Yes, delays are inevitable, but for the past couple years at least, CIG (and a good bit of the vocal fan base) seems to have changed to where they consider it an insult when people ask CIG to stick to their word. Subject to change is not a free "get out of jail" card. Especially when they can't be bothered to tell us what the reasons are.
Correction: They put up a forum poll to which a single digit percentage of backers responded, because the majority of backers wasn't even aware that any change was pending. Two friends of mine, one with $4000 and one with about $400 in the game, learned about this change after it happened, from me.
Also: SC is not an MMO remember? The main thing is now SQ42.
If you think the alpha 2.4 is "good" then you're very easy to please. But again, it's an alpha and bugs come with the territory - however my main issue is that the core mechanics are either not fleshed out (flight controls) or missing altogether (trade, etc)
About the donation discussion: Remember the "pledge" by CIG? The thing that said "You pledged your money, now it's our turn"? And as Asp said: If it was not a purchase but a donation, then why did we pay sales tax?
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You can have opinions about anything but unless you have experience with what you have opinions about, anything you say doesn't carry any weight.
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Probably got lost on the last page, but there have been a court case in the US against a delayed kickstarter, where the state of washington determinded that the Consumer protection act covers kickstarters and they won the case, setting a precedence in the US. http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/11/93...orney-general-washington-asylum-playing-cards
And as mentioned, you pay VAT/sales tax on the purchases. You only do that if the law considers it a purchase, not a donation.
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Lol guess you didn't get the point, most professional critics have not actually been working in the field they criticize. Your idea, that you have to have experience working in a field to criticize it, is ridiculous and not how the world work.
And as mentioned, you pay VAT/sales tax on the purchases. You only do that if the law considers it a purchase, not a donation.
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Lol guess you didn't get the point, most professional critics have not actually been working in the field they criticize. Your idea, that you have to have experience working in a field to criticize it, is ridiculous and not how the world work.
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Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs would like to have a little word with you
No, backers aren't investors they're customers... That seems to be current application of laws to crowdfunding. Therefore customer protection. Hmmm.
Sorry, I'm not privy to UK or EU law so the laws over in another country don't effect me
your opinion is irrelevant inferior being, only the anointed ones can speak with authority on the majestic work of Jesus Chris
Sorry, I'm not privy to UK or EU law so the laws over in another country don't effect me
The court case was a US court case, so at least in the western world it's considered a sale and protected by consumer protection laws. If you are outside both the US and EU, then I admit I have no idea if you are protected.
He has a point though. You don't have to be a game developer to understand how game development works on a fundamental level. Simply dismissing any point by saying "you're not a game developer, you can't know this" is also not an argument.
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Not sure where you're pulling this from, but here's what the EU has to say about VAT and Crowdfunding:
"Reward Crowdfunding: according to the Committee, the transaction where the backer receives, in exchange of financial contribution, a non financial reward in the form of goods or services by the project owner is VAT taxable, provided that there is a direct link between the supply of goods or services and its corresponding consideration collected by way of crowdfunding, and that the entrepreneur is a taxable person acting as such. However,when the open market value of the good or service supplied by the project owner to the backer is lower than the financial contribution and the benefits deriving from such good or service are negligible or totally unrelated to the amount of the contribution, in this case the transaction can be treated as a donation and therefore not taxable. The VAT will be chargeable upon receipt of the payment."
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Never said that you cannot have an opinion about something. Pretty much everything within this thread is opinion based. All I'm saying is that if you don't have experience of the thing you are critiquing than you cannot know the subtleties that could explain why something is the way it is. And because you lack that intimate knowledge, the things you say cannot carry as much weight as say an expert opinion.
Never attacked your "person" sir/ma'am, just attacking your behavior, big difference.
The law your quote literally says it's taxable with some exceptions, not that all crowdfunding is a donation.
No company would willingly choose to go into court against a customer if there is no precedence.
Never attacked your "person" sir/ma'am, just attacking your behavior, big difference.
Still haven't commented on the US case.
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