The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Atreiden]

I'm sorry, I'm going to avoid your game(or at least what it seems to me), I'm not an extremist on any part, neither the goons/haters or the sc fanatics(and I avoid most of those useless fights). And I don't really like to be questioned or forced to say stuff others say just so they could fill their own agenda pointing out "hey look he has said what I wanted him to say".


I don't like, like other things I have already said in the past, their position on refunds.

My "game" is asking you if you think it is okay that CIG breaks their own TOS. I repeatedly asked you, because you kept dodging the question. There is no deeper agenda in my question. But you seem to want to completely avoid discussing CIG's actions, so there is no point in continuing.

 

[lysan]

I'm sorry, I'm going to avoid your game(or at least what it seems to me), I'm not an extremist on any part, neither the goons/haters or the sc fanatics(and I avoid most of those useless fights). And I don't really like to be questioned or forced to say stuff others say just so they could fill their own agenda pointing out "hey look he has said what I wanted him to say".


I don't like, like other things I have already said in the past, their position on refunds.

Yes you did, and it was right of you to say so, and i agree with you on that part.

 

[Rolan]

My "game" is asking you if you think it is okay that CIG breaks their own TOS. I repeatedly asked you, because you kept dodging the question. There is no deeper agenda in my question. But you seem to want to completely avoid discussing CIG's actions, so there is no point in continuing.

I have talked about it in the past, but I don't really see the point of it when I was not defending the company and just posting more or less useful information.

But sure...

Yes you did, and it was right of you to say so, and i agree with you on that part.

Thanks... but you think I'm an extremist! :O(joke )

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

...and the thing about SC is that it is getting to the point where nothing it is doing is new or even worth mentioning. E : D has a visible damage model, sure the ships are more solid not havin wings or odd extremities - which absolutely makes the most sense in space unless it is a satellite or data collecting machine that requires long arms to distance the various sensors from interference from the power source and other sensors - so they make sense as space fairing vessels in E : D. They may not be fancy jpegariots like the ridiculous ships in SC - so far the Aurora is the only one that makes a lick of sense that I've seen - but they are absolutely space faring vessels and especially space combat vessels in E : D. Many of them have lifting body characteristics which is a very aerodynamic form for atmospheric re-entry and atmospheric flight in a glide pattern. Sure, they won't work in aerodynamic maneuvering like real aircraft but then neither will the terrible designs from SC because they have zero airfoil profiles so arguing that is just silly that they "have wings" when they are improperly positioned, do not have airfoils and are absolutely useless in terms of atmospheric flight.

The same things people complain about in E : D, which tend to come form those that require a guiding mission or ultimate end game or story-line structure to play through otherwise they will be lost are very much exactly the same thing in SC. So the whole "E : D is so wide by very shallow" will absolutely apply to SC since SC is following the same pattern, and note how I say follow because nothing they have presented is innovative, new, ground breaking, or not already done by E : D.

The only thing SC could have is the "legs" crap which they can't even get working properly. So you get to walk around, walk into ships, steal ships, etc, IN YOUR UNDERWEAR BECAUSE WHERE WE ARE GOING WE DON'T NEED SPACE SUITS OR EVEN OXYGEN IN THE VACUUM OF SPACE!, so what really is the point of this? I am still lost as to how walking around and PRESS USE really makes this anything other than E : D but way, way, way behind and completely not innovative at all.

There truly is nothing playable, or even demonstrable, that is even worth paying for SC in its current form or even what is supposed to be coming down the pipe.

Procedural planets? So E : D or NMS which is out in 3 weeks. Procedural planets will require placement of these highly detailed space ports that can be walked around, so guess what - the fact that only 2 space ports exist right now after 2 years and procedural planets aren't coming for a while, and all of the highly detailed space ports to walk around require manual creation, implementation, placement, etc, means... what? It isn't happening any time soon at all. Any time soon meaning years not anything less.

I could keep going but it is pointless, the kool-aid addicts will continue sipping and reality will continue passing SC by.

You glitch through doors, walls, floors and ceilings and survive the vacuum of space in nothing but your underpants.
That's pretty damn revolutionary and has not been achieved in any BDSSE good sir!

 

[Vasea Azure]

To all new people trying out the free weekend, here is helpful guide on how to improve/fix your experience with the game simply by editing the cfg file:

http://forums.redacted.tv/threads/custom-user-cfg-guide-star-citizen-alpha-2-x.644/

 

[dayrth]

My "game" is asking you if you think it is okay that CIG breaks their own TOS. I repeatedly asked you, because you kept dodging the question. There is no deeper agenda in my question. But you seem to want to completely avoid discussing CIG's actions, so there is no point in continuing.

I do get the impression that you are arguing with someone, who is not arguing with you. Rolan is an SC fan and a hopeful one, but he does acknowledge the game's shortcomings as it stands. Neither does he try to defend CIG's shady dealings. He should not be condemned for putting the other side of the argument reasonably.

 

[PiLhEaD]

...The description of a sub-par product is purely subjective...

Interesting point this, and a common fallacy.

Objective concensus can be made on (e.g.) art, and it's very simple how it works.

If the vast majority of reviews (or viewers) say that the 'art' is good, then it is objectively good. If the 'art' (or music or film etc) becomes hugely popular, then it is objectively great, or a masterpiece if you prefer.

Whether or not you like it remains your opinion alone, but the majority view cannot be dismissed by calling it 'subjective'.

Similarly, saying 'well I like it' does not invalidate common criticisms.

So, as The Dude himself might have said - 'Yeah, well, you know, that's just like your opinion man, but then, like, if that is also the opinion of the large majority who hold an opinion, then, you know, I guess it could be an objective fact, man.'

 

[darkoff]

Can you bring(a source ofc) that quote when they say "COD killer"?

Not only COD, but better destructible environment than battlefield
http://www.redbull.com/us/en/games/stories/1331726969794/star-marine-interview-with-chris-roberts
I think there was pax stream where they talked about being better than cod too but i dont have time to watch all of those again.

“Everything in Star Citizen has to be as good or better than anything out there,” Roberts says to the crowd. Thing is, there’s a difference between making a statement like that when you’re talking about spaceships and when you’re talking about the biggest genre in videogames. Before the crowdfunding revolution, and games like Elite: Dangerous and EVE: Valkyrie, the spaceship genre was, forgive the pun, an empty space. But being as good or better than anything out there as a shooter? That’s a levelling of the sights at the biggest games in the world. Everyone wants to be better than Call of Duty. But so far, at least commercially, everyone – even Battlefield – has failed.
“It’s not [a] Call of Duty or Battlefield imitation,” Roberts tells Red Bull, when we ask him point blank how he and his team aim to out-CoD CoD. “We’re going for a different FPS experience from the Call of Duty or Battlefield insta-respawn, rushing, quick combat, quick shooting set-up. We really want the players to be invested in their characters, so when they get into FPS combat it should be more meaningful. The idea is to be more in the direction of a game like Demon’s Souls, where your character and life mean more to you, so you don’t want to get killed.
“We want to make sure that the combat that you get in Star Citizen isn’t just a dumbed-down version of an FPS. We also want to make sure our FPS has its own personality.”

 

[lysan]

I have talked about it in the past, but I don't really see the point of it when I was not defending the company and just posting more or less useful information.

But sure...

Thanks... but you think I'm an extremist! :O(joke )

Nope, just a bit blinded by the light

[video=youtube;lcWVL4B-4pI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcWVL4B-4pI[/video]

 

[Rolan]

Not only COD, but better destructible environment than battlefield
http://www.redbull.com/us/en/games/stories/1331726969794/star-marine-interview-with-chris-roberts
I think there was pax stream where they talked about being better than cod too but i dont have time to watch all of those again.

So like always happens with this kind of stuff, they didn't say anything about being a "COD killer", just that they NEED to make a different(and always trying to be as good or better) and more meaningful experience than COD(and other fps) because of the genre of SC.

To me at least the quote I asked for and what you posted are not the same.

Nope, just a bit blinded by the light

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcWVL4B-4pI

 

[Artemus]

So like always happens with this kind of stuff, they didn't say anything about being a "COD killer", just that they NEED to make a different(and always trying to be as good or better) and more meaningful experience than COD(and other fps) because of the genre of SC.

To me at least the quote is asked for and what you posted are not the same.

I believe it was in a ten for the chairman he talks about making SC more lethal than COD. I'm on Mobil camping so please forgive the terrible writing and probably blotched links.

https://youtu.be/qqcN6UkKfog

http://gamerant.com/star-citizen-fps-call-duty/

 

[darkoff]

So like always happens with this kind of stuff, they didn't say anything about being a "COD killer", just that they NEED to make a different(and always trying to be as good or better) and more meaningful experience than COD(and other fps) because of the genre of SC.

To me at least the quote I asked for and what you posted are not the same.

I disagree they say clearly that they are working with a le that is comparable to battlefield/cod the whole article is great read. And theres several points in it where chris roberts over promises stuff
I think the most direct moment where roberts mentioned that they will beat COD was one of the pax events, but going over 4 hour of footage for single quote is just too much effort for me.

googling for the quote did give me more examples of when chris is saying that they will beat COD mechanics
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...Black-Ops-3-Star-Citizen-FPS-Stealth-Revealed

'Star Marine' will allow players to incorporate stealth into their tactics, giving the FPS mode more depth and ultimately an advantage over the latest Call of Duty title 'Black Ops 3'.

I believe it was in a ten for the chairman he talks about making SC more lethal than COD.

this quote?

Roberts explained: "[Stealth] is part of the core design. We are trying to make the FPS gameplay itself be more tactical, less just 'run and gun'. Especially since it is more lethal than you would normally expect with a Call of Duty or something.
"We actually have some gadgets which are good for stealth and distractions. We're going through and reactivating and polishing them from Star Marine and they will also debut with Star Marine.

 

[Atreiden]

I disagree they say clearly that they are working with a le that is comparable to battlefield/cod the whole article is great read. And theres several points in it where chris roberts over promises stuff
I think the most direct moment where roberts mentioned that they will beat COD was one of the pax events, but going over 4 hour of footage for single quote is just too much effort for me.

googling for the quote did give me more examples of when chris is saying that they will beat COD mechanics
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...Black-Ops-3-Star-Citizen-FPS-Stealth-Revealed
'Star Marine' will allow players to incorporate stealth into their tactics, giving the FPS mode more depth and ultimately an advantage over the latest Call of Duty title 'Black Ops 3'.

I agree with you, while C.Roberts didn't use the specific words COD killer, he has clearly indicated that he wants SC to out perform COD.

 

[Rolan]

I disagree they say clearly that they are working with a le that is comparable to battlefield/cod the whole article is great read. And theres several points in it where chris roberts over promises stuff
I think the most direct moment where roberts mentioned that they will beat COD was one of the pax events, but going over 4 hour of footage for single quote is just too much effort for me.

googling for the quote did give me more examples of when chris is saying that they will beat COD mechanics
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...Black-Ops-3-Star-Citizen-FPS-Stealth-Revealed

One thing is saying that you want your FPS part of your game to be better than this game in this, this and this, which will remain in your genre and has nothing then to do with the other title. Saying that SC is a COD killer means that SC will(or at least want to) occupy the space that COD has in the FPS market(which is not the case).

That's why I'm saying, that one does not equals the other one.

They have to do a different game because of the mechanics implicit in the FPS part had to allow to diferent gamemodes and strategies, is a game when if you die you die, there is no respawn in the corner. So in the end, unless they explicity say they are making a COD killer, is all in the community minds. Like when some people said, without the developers saying anything about it, that Age of Conan, Age of Warhammer, Guild Wars 2, Aion and many others were Wow Killers.

Of course is just my opinion.

 

[Prince Thrakkath]

One thing is saying that you want your FPS part of your game to be better than this game in this, this and this, which will remain in your genre and has nothing then to do with the other title. Saying that SC is a COD killer means that SC will(or at least want to) occupy the space that COD has in the FPS market(which is not the case).

That's why I'm saying, that one does not equals the other one.

They have to do a different game because of the mechanics implicit in the FPS part had to allow to diferent gamemodes and strategies, is a game when if you die you die, there is no respawn in the corner. So in the end, unless they explicity say they are making a COD killer, is all in the community minds. Like when some people said, without the developers saying anything about it, that Age of Conan, Age of Warhammer, Guild Wars 2, Aion and many others were Wow Killers.

Of course is just my opinion.

The point is CR should not be hyping the game in this way with so little delivered. He is completely responsible for the expectations he has set with customers. He is constantly comparing SC to other complete games when his own title is incomplete and bug ridden, he hypes people up even more with choreographed gameplay scenes that are not even remotely close to the experience of the end user. This sells ships, but it also stores up a huge debt of expectations that CR is simply incapable of delivering within a reasonable timeframe.

 

[Rolan]

The point is CR should not be hyping the game in this way with so little delivered. He is completely responsible for the expectations he has set with customers. He is constantly comparing SC to other complete games when his own title is incomplete and bug ridden, he hypes people up even more with choreographed gameplay scenes that are not even remotely close to the experience of the end user. This sells ships, but it also stores up a huge debt of expectations that CR is simply incapable of delivering within a reasonable timeframe.

What you said has nothing to do with what I was talking about...

 

[Prince Thrakkath]

What you said has nothing to do with what I was talking about...

It kind of does, you are inferring that the community is at fault for wrongly interpreting what CR says, I am saying he is responsible for misleading people with carelessy chosen language and that language is used to generate money. So I'm afraid it has everything to do with what your talking about. That is my opinion.

 

[McGlashan]

Man I didn't know that SQ42 had multiplayer in it; I thought they nixed co-op, must be from the "informants" that Derek Smart has in CIG Seriously, you have no access to their builds so you don't know the state of SQ42 and how close they are to a release candidate

Funny, I never even suggested S42 does have multiplayer. Quite the opposite in fact, I suggested that S42 might benefit from the lack of netcode, i.e. the lack of a multiplayer component. Savvy? That said, I stand by the basic premise that S42 and SC share enough technology (animation engine, physics, flight model, FPS mechanics, planetary landings (some day, if I'm being generous), EVA) that having access to a build of SC offers more evidence to believe that S42 is not going to appear in any vaguely acceptable form this year (one of the many promises Roberts made that you have conveniently forgotten) than there is to believe otherwise. We'll see.

But well done invoking DS out of the blue, without any provocation. He is becoming the personified straw man of SC debate among you fanatics.

Talking of fanatics, yes, I have noticed that this individual was banned, just like all the others (let's assume they're actually distinct individuals) who seem to believe that ending a sentence with a winking emoticon means that their nonsensical arguments are somehow irrefutable.

 

[Rolan]

It kind of does, you are inferring that the community is at fault for wrongly interpreting what CR says, I am saying he is responsible for misleading people with carelessy chosen language and that language is used to generate money. So I'm afraid it has everything to do with what your talking about. That is my opinion.

Well, when I talked about community I was just referring to the ones here that use the COD killer quote, and possibly the people on SA. And yes, that is their fault. He can be responsible for other things(and for talking too much and implementing little) but he did not say in any moment COD killer so in this one he is not guilty. IMO.

 

[Dr Wookie]

Never said that you cannot have an opinion about something. Pretty much everything within this thread is opinion based. All I'm saying is that if you don't have experience of the thing you are critiquing than you cannot know the subtleties that could explain why something is the way it is. And because you lack that intimate knowledge, the things you say cannot carry as much weight as say an expert opinion.

I am not going to pile on to a guy who has already been banned; I thought of a novel point to make (new to me at least).

While few of us here are expert game DEVELOPERS, I am confident that a large number of us are expert game CONSUMERS. I know I have spent tens of thousands of hours playing hundreds of games over three decades, spanning the Commodore VIC 20, ZX spectrum +, Sega Master System (Genesis), N64, PlayStations 1, 2, 3, and Vita, Xbox and Xbox360, Dreamcast, and PC.

We know what a good game look and feels like, by comparing our experience with hundreds of others. SC can look incredible in screenshots (not do well in motion as far as I have seen). However, the bits I have played do not fare well. I had a few minutes of actual fun in the racing module during a free fly week, where the game reached the giddy heights of mediocre. I have played hundreds of games that I have enjoyed more, maybe more than a thousand. That is expert opinion in my book! As always I feel I must state that I am not prejudiced against the future SC that I have yet to see, I hope that it's fun.