The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Skizomeuh]

This is precisely where they went wrong. Releasing unplanned unfinished throwaway assets and ideas just to get "something" out there to keep the excitement high and money coming in. They are so open in development that they have shot themselves in both feet when it comes to actual point of the development. Making a bloody game.

Exactly. And they shouldn't blame the backers: he put CIG/RSI (any clarification about this btw?) himself by overselling his pitch and not being totally honest regarding project advancement back then. Hell, I remember when AC got delayed to let CIG/RSI the time to deliver a polished module. The beginning of the longest and most expensive joke of a game development.

 

[jcrg99]

Hi guys. I have some questions about Star Citizen that I'm hoping can be answered.

First, will the game have some kind of single player?

Secondly, is there any indication of what specifications will be needed? My current components are in my sig'. Would a 1060 be a wise investment for the game?

Finally, if I do decide to buy into it, where do I do this, and, what's the least I can be looking at spending?

Many thanks, and I appreciate any guidance that can be offered.

It is supposed to have a single-player campaign called Squadron 42 (Actually, it is supposed to have a trilogy, with each chapter been a game by itself, with several missions, branches, stories, mocup scenes played by Hollywood actors like the incredible - as recently revealed to the world - ex-Pornhub star Sandi Gardiner, ok ok, there is GAry Oldman too, but he was paid less than Sandi, the wife of Roberts, so, I guess her role is more important)
They claim to be releasing the first chapter by the end of this year. Unless it be an alpha, or broken as hell, or incomplete, or a pathetic set of missions, not a chance. Possibly by the end of 2017 (if the first chapter is to be considered ground-breaking, finished, good, etc.). Giving the status of the gameplay, end of 2017 is very optimistic.

As the game as a whole (including the MMO part) only will become ready by 2022 or later (buy an Idris JPEG to help), once again, if they want to release something legit that be in the level of the hype and promises made, you shouldn't be worried by what system you will need. No investiment now to play Star Citizen would be wise.

If you want to buy into it, go to https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge
You can choose a game starter package and then the access for Squadron 42 (which you have to spend additional dollars for). Then, you can put more JPEG's of ships, or current pre-pre-pre-alpha ships in the top of your package to play with them in their pre-pre-pre-alpha module. I think that the basic pkg + SQ42 is around 60 dollars.

And you will regret. It's going to be the worst possible investiment that you would do with 60 dollars, and as more money these devs get, less game people gets, while waiting for longer.

There is 99% of chances that many of the promised features of this game will never see the light of the day. And it's 100% certain that the devs lie all the time for money, as have been proven tireless.

Good luck. You can make whatever you want your money, certainly, but that does not change the fact that spend on Star Citizen is something that is very fool to do, even if you are a big supporter and want it succeed. If you want SC succeed, don't give them any dime. And if you care with your money, wait for the release. They always let people play from time to time for free anyway. Desperate to try to catch new victims, hoping to transform one or two in whales, that is all that they need to keep the show and their pockets full of money for whatever personal objective they have. The project, the company's future is basically doomed.

That's my advice. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

 

[szopin]

Exactly. And they shouldn't blame the backers: he put CIG/RSI (any clarification about this btw?) himself by overselling his pitch and not being totally honest regarding project advancement back then. Hell, I remember when AC got delayed to let CIG/RSI the time to deliver a polished module. The beginning of the longest and most expensive joke of a game development.

Hey, remember the castle metaphor, they developed those huds once to get them right to not have to redevel... oh wait

 

[jcrg99]

Hey, remember the castle metaphor, they developed those huds once to get them right to not have to redevel... oh wait

Anyone here remember the time when Roberts and team pretended that the prototype was an advanced gameplay revealed, that could be actually played and people just hadn't access because they did not want to spoil people. And when people defended that SC had a lot of features done, to defend from the skepticism, and that legend persisted along the first years (until they changed the narrative later, to "building the team"), specially in their forums and by the own statements of developers in their weekly shows?

And how they were transparent, and between one ship sale or other, one stretch goal and other, they shared with people how they were advancing about the basis of the game, like the HUD (which just missed to be added to the original "game" because a build issue, by the way, as Roberts mentioned in his first presentation):

http://forum.jogos.uol.com.br/star-citizen--nos-vamos-ate-as-estrelas_t_2234216?page=4#42168698

If you do not want to go to the link, here's the statement. It's outstanding how much progress. progress... so much progress... they always shown.. and yeah! They had figured out everything from the beginning! All the pieces were in place! Confirmed! LoL

"Hi all,

I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm the designer/coder for the Star Citizen HUD and additional 2D elements. While a good deal of my work wasn't integrated in time for the live demo, that was largely because what we've been doing has pushed the limits of Scaleform and CryENGINE - and is radically different from the standard game HUD formula that's prevailed for the last decade. Taking inspiration from previous Chris Roberts ship controls, nothing in our work is similar to the templates you've seen in more recent games; it's been engineered from the ground up to deliver an unparalleled degree of control and detail to the pilot. Chris is an inspiring guy to work for, and I'm honored to have been picked for the job. We aren't cutting any corners. All the elements of the HUD systems we've developed are based on procedural algorithms and can be customized to different ships and styles to a huge degree of depth and flexibility, keeping the scope of the universe in mind. My task is to pack as much useful information as possible into tight, clear displays, to give pilots those crucial visual cues that can mean the difference between life and death in a dogfight. The HUD will be your friend, and learning to read it reflexively will shave crucial milliseconds off your reaction time. Sometimes it feels more like I'm developing an avionics package for the military than for a game!

For my qualifications, I have 15 years in Flash/Flex development, including dozens of casual games and a custom gaming platform for a Bitcoin site I operate. I'm very much a DIY, self-employed developer, and this is my first team effort in over ten years. But this is a game I'm dying to play, and I couldn't say no... I've been a fan of Chris's work since I was a kid playing Wing Commander, and it's a dream job for me to work with the team he's assembled.

There are lots of reasons to pledge to this project, but one of the best (in my view) is that the authenticity of the flying/fighting experience is going to be unparalleled. I can confirm that all the pieces are in place to ensure that it will be - and as for the avionics, I think this HUD will be the gold standard in "AAA" games for the next decade or longer.
I hope to hear your feedback as we go along, and thank you all for showing your support and helping to building this awesome game! "

 

[Osmanthus]

Actually Schrödinger's cat is a thought experiment that shows quantum superposition (a combination of solutions to a linear equation is also a solution of it). The synopsis is that you have a cat in a box, a closed the lid with some radioactive material and poison. You set it up so that if/when the radioactive material decays (within an hours time) it releases poison. So you do not know what the state (alive or dead) of the cat is until you remove the lid and observe it. The question that this thought experiment is asking is "when does a quantum system stop existing as a superposition of states and become one or the other?".

Extrapolate this to Star Citizen, we do not know what the state this game will be in (just like the cat in the box) all possible outcomes are true until we observe it's status. While simplistic, it does conform to the concept behind Schrödinger's cat. Now please quit assuming that I don't know what I'm posting about

Schrodinger's cat is misapplied. It's misapplied because the outcome of Star Citizen's release is not a function of a quantum state. So we cannot represent the solution as a superposition of quantum states. Schrodinger's cat is in my experience most often applied by people who have no idea what it means, its historical significance, and try to use it to say "oh I'm actually right even if I eventually turn out to be wrong."

That's the thing though, I am accountable to my own arguments and when I'm proven wrong I acknowledge it.

Those two things are different. Being proved wrong is one thing, and it's true you do acknowledge it (like you did a few posts up). Being accountable to your own arguments is something different: it means understanding that your argument is the road that gets you from premise to conclusion. If the argument is flawed, then your conclusion might be correct, but the road to get there is the wrong one. If you're accountable to your own arguments it means acknowledging that your argument is flawed and attempting to correct it.

There is another assumption you have about me (wonder how many of them you have gotten incorrect?). I'm not defending Chris Roberts nor am I defending CIG.

I didn't really assume this, but never mind. I'm attacking your arguments, that's all.

What I'm actually doing is poking holes in many of your world views; showing you just how subjective your interpretations are instead of the perceived objectiveness you think you're coming from. Not saying that I'm immune from this either, I'm just more cognazant of it.

Bri, this is exactly what I'm saying. I understand that this is what you're trying to do, but you're failing because your arguments are fallacious.

Let me say it again. You're trying to poke holes in my "world views", but you are not succeeding because your arguments suck.

So let me ask you this, can you pick out any instance, there's that word again, where one of you responded with something similar to this: "you know briguy168 that is an interesting point but this is how I disagree 1...2...3...", or "that could be right but it might be wrong to because of..blah".

I will tell you exactly why, Briguy. Let me break it down to you.

There are three components to making a point. You begin with a premise, you use that premise to formulate an argument, and you end up at a conclusion.

If your argument is no good, then the conclusion can't be trusted. The conclusion might be right,but not because of the argument.

The reason only a few, if any, think that you have interesting points is because your arguments are generally (but not always, though I can't think of a particular example) fallacious.

Now it IS doubtless true that there's a lot of supposition that one needs to make in arguments of this kind. That's true, but then you need to justify why it's reasonable to take that supposition. As a counterpoint, you know, some time ago you used Hume to say that past performance cannot be used as a predictor for future performance. That was actually an interesting debate: I still think it can be to a great extent, but it was a meaningful point to make and something certainly worth keeping in mind.

That example aside, what it comes down to is this: if someone accuses your argument of being fallacious, think seriously - is it actually fallacious? Is that really a fallacy? If so, can the argument be re-made without resorting to such a fallacy? If it isn't fallacious and you can show it, do so. If it is, your conclusion may still be correct. You say you have cognizance, then be cognizant of this: Be constantly aware of the integrity of your argument. It is your construction, your edifice. Can it really stand up to someone attacking it?

And finally yes, of course there are snide comments all over the place, this is the internet. But you should have the confidence in your own position to know that snideness does not a point make. We are not all here to debate, some of us are here to laugh. But to the extent that we try to debate, everyone is entitled to point out flaws in the opposition's argument. You have tried to do this, and frankly dude, you don't do very well.

 

[jcrg99]

And there was more... to prove all those "hud skeptics" wrong:

http://forum.jogos.uol.com.br/star-citizen--nos-vamos-ate-as-estrelas_t_2234216?page=5#42193047

"I'm looking forward to showing off the design, and I'll see if we can't get a sneak peek in here pretty soon! You can catch a tiny bit of it in the "Immersion" video at here
which shows some of the earliest integrations of marks, radar and ship displays when you climb into the cockpit. Although this is just the tip of the iceberg, you'll notice the screen displays there look quite a bit different from anything in the other videos. What you're seeing (for HUD-skeptics) are functional components with a lot of data layers and controls built in, but they aren't engaged yet in that video.

Mea culpa, by the way. I was trying to do something that hadn't been done before, which was part of the reason we missed our integration target, which is most of the reason why the targeting reticles and gun pips weren't in for the live demo (which is why Chris missed the enemy ship - and why some people seem to doubt the HUD exists). But I promise the end result is well worth it; you've never seen this stuff in a HUD before, because we had to rewrite parts of the CryENGINE/Scaleform integration code and roll a whole bunch of new graphics methods just to make it work.

I'll shut up now before I say too much, and leave it to Chris to make the big announcements

Josh Strike, HUD's designer and coder "

 

[Tuub t Tute]

It might make more sense to have added the date stamp of 6th November 2012 on that one! Reading it my initial thought was that this was the entrée of the "new HUD guy" that was making all the placeholder work obsolete... not, as it turns out, the guy put in place at the start to ensure this wasn't placeholder, but the real deal for the next decade...

 

[Asp Explorer]

Looks like poor Josh got hit with the refactor stick

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Looks like poor Josh got hit with the refactor stick

Maybe he had to change his name to Josh Strike III? :/

 

[Pharaelga]

It is supposed to have a single-player campaign called Squadron 42 (Actually, it is supposed to have a trilogy, with each chapter been a game by itself, with several missions, branches, stories, mocup scenes played by Hollywood actors like the incredible - as recently revealed to the world - ex-Pornhub star Sandi Gardiner, ok ok, there is GAry Oldman too, but he was paid less than Sandi, the wife of Roberts, so, I guess her role is more important)
They claim to be releasing the first chapter by the end of this year. Unless it be an alpha, or broken as hell, or incomplete, or a pathetic set of missions, not a chance. Possibly by the end of 2017 (if the first chapter is to be considered ground-breaking, finished, good, etc.). Giving the status of the gameplay, end of 2017 is very optimistic.

As the game as a whole (including the MMO part) only will become ready by 2022 or later (buy an Idris JPEG to help), once again, if they want to release something legit that be in the level of the hype and promises made, you shouldn't be worried by what system you will need. No investiment now to play Star Citizen would be wise.

If you want to buy into it, go to https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge
You can choose a game starter package and then the access for Squadron 42 (which you have to spend additional dollars for). Then, you can put more JPEG's of ships, or current pre-pre-pre-alpha ships in the top of your package to play with them in their pre-pre-pre-alpha module. I think that the basic pkg + SQ42 is around 60 dollars.

And you will regret. It's going to be the worst possible investiment that you would do with 60 dollars, and as more money these devs get, less game people gets, while waiting for longer.

There is 99% of chances that many of the promised features of this game will never see the light of the day. And it's 100% certain that the devs lie all the time for money, as have been proven tireless.

Good luck. You can make whatever you want your money, certainly, but that does not change the fact that spend on Star Citizen is something that is very fool to do, even if you are a big supporter and want it succeed. If you want SC succeed, don't give them any dime. And if you care with your money, wait for the release. They always let people play from time to time for free anyway. Desperate to try to catch new victims, hoping to transform one or two in whales, that is all that they need to keep the show and their pockets full of money for whatever personal objective they have. The project, the company's future is basically doomed.

That's my advice. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

Ouch Bitter much lol...

1. Jcrg is correct.

2. I have an i7 4770 and GTX 760 and run the game absolutely fine. A 1060 would be overkill at this point, once it's closer to release the cards that will be needed to run it optimally and at the best settings will be considerably cheaper.

3. $45 for a basic ship package but there are free fly weekends like the one that just happened this past weekend for Gamescom.

As far as the alpha goes, I'm having a lot of fun with it. The flight model makes me feel like I'm actually using all axis' with 6 DOF, as a vehicle in space should. Right now there are only a couple of missions.

 

[Barking_Mad]

And there was more... to prove all those "hud skeptics" wrong:

http://forum.jogos.uol.com.br/star-citizen--nos-vamos-ate-as-estrelas_t_2234216?page=5#42193047

"I'm looking forward to showing off the design, and I'll see if we can't get a sneak peek in here pretty soon! You can catch a tiny bit of it in the "Immersion" video at here
which shows some of the earliest integrations of marks, radar and ship displays when you climb into the cockpit. Although this is just the tip of the iceberg, you'll notice the screen displays there look quite a bit different from anything in the other videos. What you're seeing (for HUD-skeptics) are functional components with a lot of data layers and controls built in, but they aren't engaged yet in that video.

Mea culpa, by the way. I was trying to do something that hadn't been done before, which was part of the reason we missed our integration target, which is most of the reason why the targeting reticles and gun pips weren't in for the live demo (which is why Chris missed the enemy ship - and why some people seem to doubt the HUD exists). But I promise the end result is well worth it; you've never seen this stuff in a HUD before, because we had to rewrite parts of the CryENGINE/Scaleform integration code and roll a whole bunch of new graphics methods just to make it work.

I'll shut up now before I say too much, and leave it to Chris to make the big announcements

Josh Strike, HUD's designer and coder "

Great name.

 

[Skizomeuh]

And there was more... to prove all those "hud skeptics" wrong:

http://forum.jogos.uol.com.br/star-citizen--nos-vamos-ate-as-estrelas_t_2234216?page=5#42193047

"I'm looking forward to showing off the design, and I'll see if we can't get a sneak peek in here pretty soon! You can catch a tiny bit of it in the "Immersion" video at here
which shows some of the earliest integrations of marks, radar and ship displays when you climb into the cockpit. Although this is just the tip of the iceberg, you'll notice the screen displays there look quite a bit different from anything in the other videos. What you're seeing (for HUD-skeptics) are functional components with a lot of data layers and controls built in, but they aren't engaged yet in that video.

Mea culpa, by the way. I was trying to do something that hadn't been done before, which was part of the reason we missed our integration target, which is most of the reason why the targeting reticles and gun pips weren't in for the live demo (which is why Chris missed the enemy ship - and why some people seem to doubt the HUD exists). But I promise the end result is well worth it; you've never seen this stuff in a HUD before, because we had to rewrite parts of the CryENGINE/Scaleform integration code and roll a whole bunch of new graphics methods just to make it work.

I'll shut up now before I say too much, and leave it to Chris to make the big announcements

Josh Strike, HUD's designer and coder "

Haha! Sounds like a parody!

 

[Neo-ST]

I like to point out a game thats only been active publicly for 1 year
Hellion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiO3o6cIDuQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trxgo32nGNU
Isn't this baby persistent universe without any visible jankiness.
And it will feature station building as well. With the fidelity of star citizen.
And its coming to early access at January 2017. Pretty much same time as alpha 3.0 for star citizen.

Now how the hell did indie studio caught up with star citizens current progress?
they dont have 300 employees
they dont have 120$ million
they dont have 4 years to develop it
they dont have star engine they are doing it all with unity
they dont have chris roberts directing the project.

Do note im not recommending buying it before anyone knows if its truly fun game.
But currently game is in pre-alpha so i think its valid to compare to star citizen which is also in pre-alpha
and will continue to be in pre-alpha while hellion moves into alpha.

The main point im making here is the fact that star citizen is less developed than a indie game.

Oh yeah? Oh yeah?
Well, Star Citizen has got what gamers crave, it's got polygons.

Spoiler

[video=youtube;3boy_tLWeqA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA[/video]

 

[Ian Skippy]

Haha! Sounds like a parody!

Haha, yeah, all it now needs is to be spoken by Chris with voice dubbing by Donald Trump.

"Its gonna be the best HUD, a Chris Roberts HUD. I've experts, people with, eh, like, know stuff about HUDS and they, and they should know, they are the best in the field, this is the best HUD ever. And I made it. Oh, we missed the deadline btw. Sorry for that."

 

[szopin]

Haha, yeah, all it now needs is to be spoken by Chris with voice dubbing by Donald Trump.

"Its gonna be the best HUD, a Chris Roberts HUD. I've experts, people with, eh, like, know stuff about HUDS and they, and they should know, they are the best in the field, this is the best HUD ever. And I made it. Oh, we missed the deadline btw. Sorry for that."

Nah, it needs hillary treatment: delivering SC will be a surgical operation, like Libya, trust our experience (on the other hand politics probably is not the best topic to bring into SC thread, hope mods have big hands to deal with this appropriately)

 

[Ian Skippy]

Hi guys. I have some questions about Star Citizen that I'm hoping can be answered.

First, will the game have some kind of single player?

Secondly, is there any indication of what specifications will be needed? My current components are in my sig'. Would a 1060 be a wise investment for the game?

Finally, if I do decide to buy into it, where do I do this, and, what's the least I can be looking at spending?

Many thanks, and I appreciate any guidance that can be offered.

They have free-fly-weekends/weeks every month or two. I suggest you wait to try it out, and see for yourself. If at the end of the free-flight you are enthousiastic, you can get the basic pledge. Dont pre-order SQ42 as you get essentially nothing for pre-ordering it. As for when its released, they are very hazy about it. Not just the year, they are not really keen on promising it'll be this decade.

 

[briguy168]

Tried to walk you through mathematics of having thousands of players in the same instance (kind of sort of area in space) and how exponential growth of data needed to keep it all in sync, you know, real world constraints, make what CR claimed impossible, so he was either lying or just clueless, deflection was all I got

edit: need to refactor my quoting engine, this was in reply to your last bit, on phone so can't really fix it properly, srry

Actually I didn't give you deflections, what I gave you was a work-around. I understood the problem and what you were trying to convey.

edit2: oh and just so it's clear, very rarely CR's sort of kind of comments can be scrutinized/analysed correctly, as they are too generic 'yeah my dream game will have everything' kind of blabbering (promising new features like farming even with no stretch goals yay!), every once in a while he does comment on something that yields to analysis (thousands of players interacting in same area), rest does deserve snide/snark (we will simulate oxygen blood levels, egg frying/mashing, pg birds...)

Apologies that you need a deeper understanding of things but how about instead of making snide remarks, go ask the people developing it for a more in depth description of their networking technology? I mean I know it's fun to poke fun at something but, assuming you have an honest inquire and not fapping around, maybe you'll get your answers you seek.

 

[Maruun]

Hey, remember the castle metaphor, they developed those huds once to get them right to not have to redevel... oh wait

Yes trying to build a giant castle in a preexisting wall and already making the castle bigger then the wall to protect it...

 

[szopin]

Apologies that you need a deeper understanding of things but how about instead of making snide remarks, go ask the people developing it for a more in depth description of their networking technology? I mean I know it's fun to poke fun at something but, assuming you have an honest inquire and not fapping around, maybe you'll get your answers you seek.

Yeah, that's the problem, their open development is everything but, go ahead and submit those questions to their latest YT show, see if you get an answer (who in his right mind will override CR's 'visionary statements' and impact funding negatively by confirming that maybe not all/not in the same way CR described? the time for ruining the hype has not yet come, they still expand their scope even without stretch goals, maybe if they already have an alternative gig set up)

 

[Soliluna]

Honestly, I come to this thread to have a look at development updates and I get the (seriously) biggest rabbit hole conspiracies that I have ever had the pleasure of indulging in.

It is a testament to the players and the executives at CiG that there is so much drama regarding it's development and thanks to my wallet being firmly closed I am revelling in it.

I have no idea where the truth lies but a lot of the systems look really cool - a lot of the CS interaction, a lot of the PR and a lot of the management philosophies are however, not.

So I recently watched the gamescom videos.

Not much has changed since the last video I watched.

Can I politely ask that someone let me know what is worth looking into since earlier this year regarding the game and how it is coming along? What features have been released that weren't released in say, March? Whether I've missed any important announcements?

I try to follow the game but the only news items that google seems to provide are how toxic the SC community is or how CiG are going bankrupt. Possibly Google knows I have been too far down the rabbit hole and it won't let me return.