The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Tippis]

Even after al the cuts i liked freelancer and i bought every wing commander game ever made. (And strike commander too). I think i have enjoyed all of CRs past games (privateer 1 and 2 the best for me). SC will deliver a decent game in the end, i am confident on that...... Stuff wlll get cut tho no doubt. I just hooe it is not a (decent) VR mode

Fun fact: most Chris Roberts games were not made by Chris Roberts. The Privateer games in particular had little to nothing to do with him.

 

[MTBFritz]

Fun fact: most Chris Roberts games were not made by Chris Roberts. The Privateer games in particular had little to nothing to do with him.

This....I actually remember most of these games fondly and played them like crazy at the time of their release (yes...I m that old) and I too made the mistake to credit Chris Roberts with their creation when he came up on Kickstarter announcing Star Citizen. As tangible proof was provided in the meantime tho I realize that hardly any of the past successes can be linked to Chris Roberts. He might be an "idea" man but showed that hes unable to come through with any results based on those ideas. If anything titles like Freelancer are a contra-argument to Chris Roberts capabilities so I can only asume people bringing in these examples to his defense are either blind or clueless about what really transpired.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Xi'an concept art

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/3pdB6pO.png

Can't help but think of this...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Hard to make from concept arts and model snaps how those aliens will feel and look in game. Rubber faced aliens can be exciting if done right. We will see.

 

[Stormprooter]

To be fair though - I am sure CIG have developed a great many things that would be great to show off, and very exciting to see.

It's just that Genuine Roberts seems to demand urm, erm, something else.

Kind of like the type of thing y'know - fidelity!

 

[Adept]

Fun fact: most Chris Roberts games were not made by Chris Roberts. The Privateer games in particular had little to nothing to do with him.

Origin was a great company. I never thought CR was the critical component on the Wing Commander series.

 

[hairychris]

I think that CIG are very open in what kind of progress they have made, it just ends up that they have not made any. Despite what CIG likes to claim, that they wait until its polished before showing it, CIG have a history of showing the most broken thing they can in order to show progress. CIG release very broken code in order to show progress. If CIG had anything they would show it.

To be honest I don't even think that they've been hugely open about that. Modules "Almost ready" then disappearing off the radar with nothing more said isn't that open IMO!

 

[frostypaw]

As it is, both Frontier and CIG will be subject to the same reasoning. They won't show off the next iteration of their game until the existing iteration has had its time in the sun. They won't show off major features or provide major previews unless there is something worthwhile to see. With SC, 2.6 is new. There may yet be a 2.6.1. With Elite, 2.2 is still fairly new as well. Next patch is likely to be 3-6 months out for both.

December 16th 2015
[video=youtube;-yLTm8DZ8s4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yLTm8DZ8s4[/video]

Sorry I'm calling bovine excrement - CIG show whatever they think will sell more JPEGs. I've had people arguing procedural planets are already in game all year based on this trailer - could anyone remind me what release those are apparently in?
Suddenly claiming everything is backwards and upside down and we've just been confused doesn't really cut it. Today's behaviour doesn't discount all previous behaviour.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Origin was a great company. I never thought CR was the critical component on the Wing Commander series.

This. When they started to taunt Chris as "teh creator of space sims", I remembered Wing Commander and was like...huh? Granted I was just a kid when series reached it's peak, but still I almost never heard Chris name to be mentioned.

 

[Tippis]

Origin was a great company. I never thought CR was the critical component on the Wing Commander series.

It's actually quite fun to look through the “Chris games” and see what other familiar names pop up:

Spoiler

Wing Commander (1990)
• Erin Roberts (design, QA), Warren Spector (producer, documentation editing), Steve Cantrell (writing, dialogue, story, QA, documentation & reference + editing), Paul Isaac (programming)

Wing Commander II (1991)
• Warren Spector (documentation, documentation design & graphics), David Ladyman (documentation design & graphics), Stephen Beeman (director, story, software engineer), Ellen Beeman (assistant director, voice direction, consulting director, script, story), Steve Cantrell (CD rom documentation, QA, design, writing, implementation, special thanks)

Wing Commander: Privateer (1993)
• Erin Roberts (assistant producer), Joel Manners (original concept, lead design), David Ladyman (documentation), Warren Spector (producer of Righteous Fire expansion)

Strike Commander (1993)
• Erin Roberts (assistant producer), David Ladyman (editing), Paul Steed (RealSpace buildings, RealSpace planes and vehicles, documentation graphics), Bill Baldwin (cockpit, HUD, MFDs, audio system, RealSpace terrain editor, option scenes, library code), Paul Isaac (RealSpace system programming, graphics primitives, cockpit, HUD, MFDs, mission system, RealSpace object editor, library code), Eric Hyman (additional programming)

Super Wing Commander (1994)
• David Ladyman (editing), Eric Hyman (producer), Paul Isaac (programmer)

Wing Commander III (1994)
• David Ladyman (editing), Paul Steed (assistant art director, Realspace objects, mission briefing & animations), Paul Isaac (3D object editor)

Wing Commander: Armada (1994)
• Paul Steed (graphics/artwork), David Ladyman (editor)

Wing Commander IV (1996)
• Paul Steed (graphics/3D programming), David Ladyman (documentation), Eric Peterson (historical note)

Privateer 2 (1996)
• Erin Roberts (producer), David Ladyman (documentation), Simon Elms (initial main plot design), Nick Elms (3D artist/object design), Eric Peterson: (historical note)

Wing Commander: Prophecy (1997)
• Syd Mead (concept art), David Swofford (director of communications), David Ladyman (documentation editor), Paul Isaac (additional programming)

Starlancer (2000)
• Erin Roberts (producer, original concept, game design), Nick Elms (original concept, game design, art direction, mission design), Simon Elms (assistant project coordinator), Eric Peterson (game design, assistant producer)

Freelancer (2003)
• Paul Isaac (lead programmer)

(Spoilered, because it's a pretty long list)

e: I suppose it's also worth mentioning Chris' actual credits for the same games:

Spoiler

Wing Commander (1990)
• Design, Director, Graphics/3D Programming, Lead design, Programming, Producer, Software Engineer, Space System, Director and producer of expansions.

Wing Commander II (1991)
• Producer, Creative director of expansions.

Wing Commander: Privateer (1993)
• Executive Producer, Original Concept

Strike Commander (1993)
• Cameras, Cockpit, HUD, and MFDs, Director, Graphics, Library Code, Mission Design, Original Outline, Producer, RealSpace System Programming, Producer of expansion

Super Wing Commander (1994)
• None

Wing Commander III (1994)
• Casting, Director, Executive Producer & Director of FMV, Producer, Story

Wing Commander: Armada (1994)
• Producer

Wing Commander IV (1996)
• Executive Producer, Director of FMV

Privateer 2 (1996)
• None.

Wing Commander: Prophecy (1997)
• Special thanks

Starlancer (2000)
• Executive Producer

Freelancer (2003)
• Original concept, Special thanks

He only really made three and a half games: Wing Commander, Strike Commander, Wing Commander III, and Wing Commander IV (where he only really cared about the FMV). Idea-wise, it's not really a fount of creativity either: Wing Commander (aka Battlehawks 1942 or Wings, but in space), Strike Commander (WC with jets), and then more Wing Commander… [uhh]

 

[Toumal]

It's a bit like that Engineer at Apple who came up with a new product (i forgot whether it was itunes or the ipod itself), only to have Steve Jobs tell him how stupid that was, and then later take credit for it. But my memory might be hazy about this.

 

[Maruun]

What SC is doing is called by them open development...i would call it open marketing.

Every show, every livestream every Con. Wasnt their to show progress...it was to market the game and get money. Hyping everybody and milking the community with false promises.
Gamescon was just a farce. Streaming for days their broken build, just to show a "stable" awesome build ,at a seperate theater where backers had to pay extra money to get a ticket for, called 3.0 and was promised end of year.

Everything is awesome
Everything is around the corner
Everything has been played but is not ready yet
Everything is fine
Everything is amazing

Its a joke at this point and everytime people fell for the marketing talk that is soley their to give "confidence" ignoring that this can has been kicked down the road for 2 years now.
Claiming making a marathon...in reality just walking down the corner.

 

[Cmdr-Wotherspoon]

He only really made three and a half games

You forget Wizadore, which Roberts wrote around the same time Braben and Bell were making Elite. It's actually rather good. https://youtu.be/Frec-Bh6XfE

 

[Tippis]

You forget Wizadore, which Roberts wrote around the same time Braben and Bell were making Elite. It's actually rather good. https://youtu.be/Frec-Bh6XfE

Fair enough. I suppose I should include Strykers Run too…

 

[DoctorDanny]

Fair enough. I suppose I should include Strykers Run too…

It was one of the best games on the old BBC and electron.

 

[Adept]

This. When they started to taunt Chris as "teh creator of space sims", I remembered Wing Commander and was like...huh? Granted I was just a kid when series reached it's peak, but still I almost never heard Chris name to be mentioned.

He had the producer, or arguably director credits "A Chris Roberts Game". He was definitely building up his brand, but I don't think he really was the star of the project(s).

- - - Updated - - -

When you look at the posted credits, the name that really jumps out is Warren Spector (long may he reign!).

I recommend looking up what Spector is up to these days. Now that's a project that deserves some of your hard won Cr.

 

[Barking_Mad]

It was one of the best games on the old BBC and electron.

Good game. From a time when the quality of graphics on the loading screen was a talking point. lol

 

[CmdrKull]

I recommend looking up what Spector is up to these days. Now that's a project that deserves some of your hard won Cr.

Not just Spector but the whole team they've put together at Otherside. It's essentially Looking Glass. As they get up and running more and more of that old team keeps coming back. Sadly I don't see them getting the Thief franchise back in their wheelhouse, though I shouldn't rule it out. U:A looks great, sort of s standard dungeon crawl with intelligence oozing out of the design everywhere you look.

But yeah, not just Shodan but the whole SS universe is a welcome return. I can't wait to see what they'll do with it.

 

[thorn-]

The Horizons expansion for Elite was "several months away" too but that didn't stop FDev showing some planetary landings, ship landings and the soon-to-be SRVs performing in-game. So what's CIG's excuse?

Frontier showed a bunch of rendered cut-scenes. CIG has certainly shown a lot of those (often to great ridicule around here.)

So your point fails on that.

 

[Tippis]

Frontier showed a bunch of rendered cut-scenes. CIG has certainly shown a lot of those (often to great ridicule around here.)

So your point fails on that.

No, the point remains intact: that FDev could easly show in-engine and even in-game stuff that was “several months away,” which means that 3.0 supposedly being that far off is not a particularly good excuse for not trotting it out at this point.

The reason CIG get ridiculed is because they almost exclusively rely on pre-rendered dazzle reels which, at best, are in-editor and which do not really show off any kind of planned or presented gameplay. Also because anything they show off will invariably fail to materialise at the appointed time.