The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Viajero]

Of course there is no distinction. Yet.

Its kinda like when people point out there are bugs in the Alphas to date. All I Can say is... DUH of course there is.

The interesting part is that before any FPS mechanic was released in SC, it was sold as much less arcadey, more tactical and more deadly than CoD etc. I.e. something of a middle ground towards the way too realistic ArmA mechanics. No one in CIG warned that the first iterations would be as aracadey as they are (same goes with AC actually). Only after release of those and after the community had realized how aracadey some of the core elements were and posted about it, CIG started to use that story.

Personally I believe that CIG was actually trying to make it as promised but could not. And still can not. And it is using that rationalization to wave away the difficulties it is having in getting there. Does it mean they can not make it as promised eventually? Probably not. But it speaks volumes about their "transparent" development process, and one more piece that can be used to argue the constant false or misleading advertising campaign that drives funding over at CIG.

 

[dsmart]

New analytics

And nothing strange about the two $15K Completionists and Javelin (unlocked for purchase, with a Completionist package) purchases from over the weekend.

 

[lysan]

Maybe the pixels yes, actually by now we should be able to distinguish when engine blue pixels have been ordered by Chris Roberts

2:11:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuA-zV6B4vQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2h11m52s

Changing topic, and now that you are back, perhaps you would like to talk a bit more about VR in SC?

It's ready, famous actor and developer Ben Lameshock told you so a long time ago, that included controls, the switch is real...

In other news IL-2 released not so long ago full VR into their game, they are not so smart as CIG so it took them quite some time to make it work.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

There, I condensed your handwavey comment into something rather more representative of where CIG is with Star Citizen's development.

Also, the fact that you can look at that dog's dinner of a "schedule" CIG posted a couple of days ago and say, with a straight face, that "Everything is awesome and going according to plan!", is rather telling really.


But sure, do get your wallet out again to financially back Roberts' Vision, he'll be very glad of your unwavering support.

[Edit]: I mean, it's not like Chris Roberts, during CitizenCon last year, didn't get up on stage and produce a list of the features that will be in 3.0, along with a flashy (buggy as heck and stealing from as many sci-fi movie/book franchises as it could do) demo showing backers what it would look and "play" like. And it isn't like they put a date up there during the presentation stating that it would be mostly ready for backers to play-test by December 2016.

Oh.... that's right... He DID!

So how is it, now 4 months past the time 3/0 was supposed to drop, have CIG only just NOW produced a *schedule* of the work they'll have to do to make 3.0 a reality? On top of that, why are several of the key features that were mentioned to be part of 3.0 last December have now been pushed back until much later this year, or have been completely omitted from this hacked job of a schedule altogether?

Can someone show me where he said it would be out at the End fo December. Because he clearly said they were going to try but no promises.

Saying something WILL be out and saying they are going to try but no promises, to most people are very different things.

As for my wallet, I've already given SC the moneys I wished to. Just like I did with Elite Dangerous and Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Because they are all the style games I wish to play.

 

[Stigbob]

Well, I kinda agree on some of that.
There is no point to /r/ds and those folk have so much hate in their lives and need to find something else to hate...like earwigs. Those things are truly hateful.

And there should be an archive of CRoberts drivel because they keep revising history and the Citizens conveniently forget stuff.

Just have a look at the r/ds moderators who also moderate the grey-market. The point to r/ds is protecting an investment, financial for some emotional for others.

 

[Evil_Merlin]

It's ready, famous actor and developer Ben Lameshock told you so a long time ago, that included controls, the switch is real...

In other news IL-2 released not so long ago full VR into their game, they are not so smart as CIG so it took them quite some time to make it work.

The IL-2 Engine is actually the Rise of Flight engine and is currently 8 years old. The folks at 1C said they didn't make many changes to the engine to get IL-2 into it (which is why you see the Isack in the background of the hangars in Rise of Flight.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Can someone show me where he said it would be out at the End fo December. Because he clearly said they were going to try but no promises.

Saying something WILL be out and saying they are going to try but no promises, to most people are very different things.

As for my wallet, I've already given SC the moneys I wished to. Just like I did with Elite Dangerous and Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Because they are all the style games I wish to play.

Can *you* tell me if Chris Roberts told backers at CitizenCon that, actually, we haven't got any sort of *plan* for 3.0, and that we'll start writing up a schedule for doing it well into 2017?

Stop deflecting the question.... And sure, Roberts didn't specifically say it would definitely come in December, but the fact that 3.0 didn't drop in December 2016, then the following silence from CIG about it until now when they are talking about a *schedule* for the work to go into 3.0, should be telling you that CIG wilfully *deceived* backers about their readiness to work on 3.0.

 

[dsmart]

Can someone show me where he said it would be out at the End fo December. Because he clearly said they were going to try but no promises.

Saying something WILL be out and saying they are going to try but no promises, to most people are very different things.

We've been down this road with you before. So you're bringing it up again as part of your usual deflection tactic, seeing as you have failed to answer a direct question you were asked.

“..so, it’s our big end of the year release. er so er yeah, so we’re gonna get it out the end of the year; hopefully not on December 19th but, er, like last year….but it is a big one, so, not making er, I got shot for making promises, but er, that’s our goal.”

- Chris Roberts, GamesCom, Aug 19, 2016 @ 23:36

So between Aug, 2016 and the 3.0 schedule (amid much fanfare), the 3.0 is now stated to be coming June 29th, 2017. That's 10 months since Gamescom; and 6 months since Dec 2016.

Yet, shortly after raising over $22 million* between Aug-Dec based on those LIES; right after, in Jan, they started talking about "doing a 3.0 schedule". And then in April, they released it. With a video explaining - gasp - how difficult it is to make a schedule.

*

08/16, $4,494,327
09/16, $2,315,704
10/16, $5,215,403
11/16, $7,776,767
12/16, $3,021,676

Your turn.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

The IL-2 Engine is actually the Rise of Flight engine and is currently 8 years old. The folks at 1C said they didn't make many changes to the engine to get IL-2 into it (which is why you see the Isack in the background of the hangars in Rise of Flight.

So? The issue here isn't the engine changing or not... It's the fact the developers on a much smaller budget and a much smaller team have managed to implement VR into their game with an engine that is positively *ancient* by today's rate of graphic engine development.

Meanwhile, CIG waffle on about being able to work VR into their game, even though it was clear right at the beginning that it wasn't a top priority for them ~ a big no-no for any game that wishes to fully implement VR capability into an experience that is worthwhile and immersive for the player.

Heck, their head guy for VR implementation (I forget his name), LEFT CIG early to mid last year, and from all indications, they haven't filled that vacancy either.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Can someone show me where he said it would be out at the End fo December. Because he clearly said they were going to try but no promises.

Saying something WILL be out and saying they are going to try but no promises, to most people are very different things.

As for my wallet, I've already given SC the moneys I wished to. Just like I did with Elite Dangerous and Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Because they are all the style games I wish to play.

If he sincerely believed 3.0 would be done in december, he wouldnt have posted in januari they were about to start making a plan for how to create it. That would have been done ages before he announced he was hoping for a december release. There was 0% chance of it coming out in december, and he either knew it or should have known it. He is either a liar or incompetent, or both. There is no competent and honest way to confuse 'we'll release X in a few weeks' and 'we will release X in about a year, with half the stuff cut'. And if he somehow didnt know then, he knew it when he started another ship sale in december.

 

[McGlashan]

Saying something WILL be out and saying they are going to try but no promises, to most people are very different things.

For future reference, do you consider the new 3.0 schedule to be a promise or just something they're sort of hoping might come to pass maybe?

 

[AJW]

The IL-2 Engine is actually the Rise of Flight engine and is currently 8 years old. The folks at 1C said they didn't make many changes to the engine to get IL-2 into it (which is why you see the Isack in the background of the hangars in Rise of Flight.

Please stick to making up stuff about SC, because when you make up stuff about other games it is off-topic.

 

[Ian Skippy]

So? The issue here isn't the engine changing or not... It's the fact the developers on a much smaller budget and a much smaller team have managed to implement VR into their game with an engine that is positively *ancient* by today's rate of graphic engine development.

Meanwhile, CIG waffle on about being able to work VR into their game, even though it was clear right at the beginning that it wasn't a top priority for them ~ a big no-no for any game that wishes to fully implement VR capability into an experience that is worthwhile and immersive for the player.

Heck, their head guy for VR implementation (I forget his name), LEFT CIG early to mid last year, and from all indications, they haven't filled that vacancy either.

Well, the rather comical 'yeah, VR is a priority but just not now' says all you need to know. I am gonna use that notion of 'priority' too from now on by the way.

 

[Tippis]

Of course they are not going to comment on when its estimated that SQ42 is shipping. That's obvious.

How is it obvious? Why can't they give an estimate on what should be the easiest part, by far, of the game?

Both AC and SM have always been arcadey. Thats the whole point of both.

Eh, no. The point of them is to act as test beds to feed playtesting for those specific mechanics back into the actual main game — they can't use an arcade testbed to get feedback on any of the sim aspects that the gameplay is meant to provide. If they've changed that, then neither module serves a useful purpose any more (or, worse, they're now developing four separate and disparate games).

The next question clearly puts to bed some of your own opinions on where the game is at this time. All major underlying systems are in place for both the PU and SQ42.

What systems are those? And how do they show up in the PU?

More complex HOTAS control is coming.

That's not what they're saying, nor is that a particularly good thing. They're saying that good joystick configuration options are not a priority, and the problem isn't actually that configuration, but the fact that joysticks are hugely inferior as an input device for the kind of controls and flight “dynamics” the game has on offer.

And of course VR support isn't a priority, why would it be???

Because if they don't make it one at this stage, it will never be in.

So in a nutshell, the game is proceeding in development well.

There's next to nothing to even remotely suggest anything of the kind. Quite the opposite: nothing is finalised, everything is changing, core components are missing and not a priority to get done (if ever), and they have no idea when they might be done.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, the rather comical 'yeah, VR is a priority but just not now' says all you need to know. I am gonna use that notion of 'priority' too from now on by the way.

It's an improvement over the classic “everything is a priority” strategy, at least, so that's a neat development to come out of all of this.

 

[Gnorok]

I never "predicted" anything. Several people were available. Until they were not. As I said months ago, I have it on good authority that Tony Z is on the way out. Of course, just like all the departed key people, not to mention entire teams (e.g. BHVR which
I mentioned months ago - and is only now being made public), nobody will know it happens until long after the fact. And that has happened every - single - time.

Your turn.

Citation of your "blog":
"As I had mentioned before, there are other exits, including sources saying that Matthew Johns (Now at Naughty Dog), Tony Z, and other key players are either gone, or have put in their notice."

That isn´t "on the way out" (sometime in the future), that´s "out". What is the typical time for a notice in the US, two weeks? Would you take a employee, who has put in his notice, to a press interview? We´ll see for certain, if Tony Z airs ones again on AtV in the following weeks

 

[dsmart]

Citation of your "blog":
"As I had mentioned before, there are other exits, including sources saying that Matthew Johns (Now at Naughty Dog), Tony Z, and other key players are either gone, or have put in their notice."

That isn´t "on the way out" (sometime in the future), that´s "out". What is the typical time for a notice in the US, two weeks? Would you take a employee, who has put in his notice, to a press interview? We´ll see for certain, if Tony Z airs ones again on AtV in the following weeks

Not sure what you're trying to say there, as it wasn't clear.

That comment is quite clear. Matthew Johns (as in "either gone") is in fact gone now, as have the entire BHVR team (as in "either gone"), leaving Tony Z and others on the way out (as in "put in their notice").

There are at least two people that I know of in the F42-UK team who put in their notice, then were offered incentives to stay. It happens. And no, Ben Parry wasn't one of them.

 

[MTBFritz]

So in a nutshell, the game is proceeding in development hell.

Fixed that for you

[sad] beaten by the cat

 

[Backer42]

That's not what they're saying, nor is that a particularly good thing. They're saying that good joystick configuration options are not a priority, and the problem isn't actually that configuration, but the fact that joysticks are hugely inferior as an input device for the kind of controls and flight “dynamics” the game has on offer.

The developers are regularly seen playing their tech demo with an Xbox controller - including Chris Roberts, where the trained eye can see, that he never has hold a game controller outside his smoke & mirrors events. Also the official SC HOTAS manufacturer has gone out of business before the game's release. Of course joystick support is not a priority after looking at this.

Selling the game to a kind of hardcore flight simulator audience four years ago was just an happy accident. Once that niche demography providing the initial funding was exhausted they got the arcade-pew-pew audience on board, too. Now they have to deal with the fact that they've lied to at least one group about the character of the game to cash in on both.

Neither will get what they want. Enjoy your Frankenstein flight model.

 

[VidarSnipes]

I hate when this thread becomes the place where Defenders of the 'Verse come to test their mettle against The Warlord.

 

[Zetta]

I hate when this thread becomes the place where Defenders of the 'Verse come to test their mettle against The Warlord.

It's kind of funny for a while but it doesn't take long for it to start getting laborious.