The Tri-poll: What does multiplayer mean to YOU?

[Ian Doncaster]

You're forgetting that (aside from backers) everyone starts in the same place.

Will they? Most of the backer start locations have the note "(randomised start system choice for multiplayer reasons)" on them, apart from two where that obviously wouldn't work (Elite I start, Founder's World start)

I'd assumed from that the basic start would also be somewhat randomised.

 

[Zak Gordon]

As long as the legal system is robust enough (so that means get's enforced), then i think everyone should be as free as they wish to do as they want and they will just have to deal with the consequences of their actions.

So keep the spirit of the game truly free, just ensure the punitive system for wrong-doers is effective (bounty rewards, police intercepts, space station security checks etc).

 

[Barns]

...I have faith that they are trying to make this as much a non issue as they can........

Unfortunately, it's impossible to make it a non issue for both PvP-loving and PvP-hating players. They can create all the penalties they like for killing another player, but if a PvP hater gets killed by another player, they'll be upset whatever the repercussions for their killer.

If FD don't provide a proper PvE mode then they're guaranteed to upset some proportion of the player base. Either they :

• Allow plenty of PvP freedom, in which case PvP haters will be upset.
  
• Lock PvP down to restricted zones that non-PvPers can easily avoid, which will upset many PvPers and "immersion lovers".
  
• Provide a separate PvE mode to split the playerbase in two so that they simply never inhabit the same universe, which should keep PvPers and PvEers both entirely happy but for some reason I still can't fathom keeps being argued against! Everyone gets what they want...

 

[Barns]

... just ensure the punitive system for wrong-doers is effective (bounty rewards, police intercepts, space station security checks etc).

The problem is, if I'm a PvPer then I want to be able to go kill other players and have fun without being destroyed by police immediately or being prevented from playing any of the rest of the game due to criminal flags etc. Make the criminal system too much of a deterrent and PvP will just be no fun.

And if I'm a PvP-hater then I don't really care what the implications for my killer are, being killed by another player is just something I want to never happen under any circumstances.

I can't see how the justice system can possibly balance the two groups' desires in a single universe.

 

[The Space Pirate]

Hey, Mr Lead Designer! Great to see someone of your stature here. This is actually happening, isn't it?

My view is very simple: There are several games where things added to MP for 'balancing' reasons have a habit of spoiling the SP experience. As long as nothing added to MP spoils the SP experience, knock yourselves out!

Chances are, I'll be mainly an SP kinda guy then.

 

[[VR] Shadowman]

The problem is, if I'm a PvPer then I want to be able to go kill other players and have fun without being destroyed by police immediately or being prevented from playing any of the rest of the game due to criminal flags etc. Make the criminal system too much of a deterrent and PvP will just be no fun.

And if I'm a PvP-hater then I don't really care what the implications for my killer are, being killed by another player is just something I want to never happen under any circumstances.

I can't see how the justice system can possibly balance the two groups' desires in a single universe.

If you want to PvP most of the time, head for dark or anarchic systems to fill your boots. If you are a PvP hater, then avoiding lawless systems shouldn't be too much of an issue and core systems are probably weighted against it as well.

I think we need to put it into perspective. Even if I'm a PvP hater and get killed by a player, it's not exactly the end of the world. Just learn from it and be smarter next time...

 

[Serpentstar]

If you want to PvP most of the time, head for dark or anarchic systems to fill your boots. If you are a PvP hater, then avoiding lawless systems shouldn't be too much of an issue and core systems are probably weighted against it as well.

I think we need to put it into perspective. Even if I'm a PvP hater and get killed by a player, it's not exactly the end of the world. Just learn from it and be smarter next time...

Again, the point is missed. If they go to a lawless system, PVP players will encounter mostly NPC entities. They are wanting to be able to attack other players and that generally will only occur in popular, inhabited systems.

Conversely, heading out to Anarchic space is precisely where I, as a PVE player, will be heading. Since there is less of a chance in encountering a PVP player where there are few players to start with, I will happily have my hands (and sights) full of PVE content to deal with.

Worst case scenario, I will start my own group, pvp preference disabled, and will accept any like minded individuals. Piracy isn't my gig, mining is fairly mindless. Finding new locations will be something I will be delving mostly in.

As it was previously mentioned. You can join a create/group where PVP activity will not incur penalties. A PVP player have have as much PVP combat as he or she cares to. I just won't be part of it.

 

[DarkWalker]

Indeed, and this is what needs to be discussed. There are pros and cons of locking people into a group, so we should be talking about them (if we're allowed to actually discuss something relevant at some point ).

Other alternatives to "allow switching/don't allow switching" would be to make group switching come at a cost to the player; meaning that players don't simply switch out to make their game easier or to gain advantages over other players. Would create another money sink, but I'm not a fan of the option myself as it means in-game penalties for meta-game activity, which is a no-no in my book.

Fairly easy way to restrict switching groups for short term advantages: make switching groups require an empty cargo hold and no accepted missions (except, perhaps, for missions directly tied to the character history, missions that are supposed to be available and completable no matter in which group the player currently is).

It would provide "free" possibilities to switch groups now and then, wouldn't be much of a burden for intentionally changing groups now and again, but would completely prevent players from changing groups merely to do a PvP-free cargo run or to complete a mission without interference from other players.

 

[DarkWalker]

If you want to PvP most of the time, head for dark or anarchic systems to fill your boots. If you are a PvP hater, then avoiding lawless systems shouldn't be too much of an issue and core systems are probably weighted against it as well.

Trouble is, while I don't want to ever be subjected to non-consensual PvP, I want the hardest PvE challenges the game can throw at me. I don't want to stay in kiddie space where NPC police protect me from both the player pirates and the "scary" NPC pirates, I want to go places where I will be constantly fighting for my (virtual) life, but only against NPCs.

Thus, a system that segregates PvP and PvE zones based on difficulty is completely worthless for me. For me, at least, it leads to the PvE half of the game being too boring, and the places where the PvE could actually be challenging and fun being infested with PvP, which means I'm not willing to ever go there.

I think we need to put it into perspective. Even if I'm a PvP hater and get killed by a player, it's not exactly the end of the world. Just learn from it and be smarter next time...

It's not the end of the world. It just ruins all the fun I could have had that day, thus making the game completely worthless for me as entertainment, not worth wasting my time with at all.

(There is an exception, though. If being killed in PvP has little to no negative consequences I just suicide when attacked, respawn, and continue playing as if nothing had happened; in this way I can play games like the plethora WoW clones out there even on their PvP servers, simply because I can just ignore PvP fights and keep playing as if nothing had happened. Interestingly enough I tend to not get attacked twice by the same person, perhaps because killing a target dummy with a player tag is not fun.)

 

[Zplintz]

What's the difference between being killed by a player or an NPC?

 

[Patrick_68000]

What's the difference between being killed by a player or an NPC?

Why? you are intending of dying?

 

[Ian Phillips]

What's the difference between being killed by a player or an NPC?

When you get killed by an NPC - it doesn't hurt!

 

[Fromhell]

What's the difference between being killed by a player or an NPC?

The differences are the carebear tears and ragequits of emotionally unstable people who take games way too seriously and suffer from paranoia, making up "unfair" scenarios in their heads which they want to prevent at all cost. This is why they are begging for controlled environments and safety nets, even if it means ruining the game experience for everyone else.

It´s anti human-intelligence discrimination in favour of artificial-intelligence.

No one is killed by NPCs these days, it´s called easymode. It´s the standard mode all online games offer, to be "accessible" (cater to the casual mass market).

 

[Barns]

The differences are the carebear tears and ragequits of emotionally unstable people who take games way too seriously and suffer from paranoia...

You know, it sounds like you're taking it all rather seriously yourself. Please tone down the character assassinations and wild generalisations.

 

[jabokai]

The differences are the carebear tears and ragequits of emotionally unstable people who take games way too seriously and suffer from paranoia, making up "unfair" scenarios in their heads which they want to prevent at all cost.

Almost every ragequit I've seen over the years is in PvP games... there's no reason to in PvE because everyone's fluffy and happy!

 

[DigitalDuck]

making up "unfair" scenarios in their heads which they want to prevent at all cost [...] even if it means ruining the game experience for everyone else.

I reckon a few more posts like this and you'll have an autobiography sorted.

 

[Zak Gordon]

The problem is, if I'm a PvPer then I want to be able to go kill other players and have fun without being destroyed by police immediately or being prevented from playing any of the rest of the game due to criminal flags etc. Make the criminal system too much of a deterrent and PvP will just be no fun.

And if I'm a PvP-hater then I don't really care what the implications for my killer are, being killed by another player is just something I want to never happen under any circumstances.

I can't see how the justice system can possibly balance the two groups' desires in a single universe.

As Shadowman touched on, IF your legal system is fully integrated into the game world (and in the old Elites they already had different system law levels, so no reason to not see that here also), then you will simply have those that want the life of the pirate living in and around systems that have low law levels (so no police, no space station scans etc), and doing occasional raids into more protected systems for bigger loot hauls (but higher risks).

And add into the mix a range of 'illegal' counterfit measures you could take as a known pirate (say 'fake ID' for high law level space station docking (with a risk of it not working out depending on x), or a fake 'ship registration' for general in system travel to deal with random police scans etc) and there could be an interesting high-risk/high-reward game for the ultra PvP players if they so chose.

So IF FD do manage to further enrich the already present levels of 'lawlessness' as currently in the historic elites, i see no problem creating the right kind of game environment for the differing player types.

What i don't think would be fair is if the PvP players that want to be 'pirates' can then get around the rest of the game world with no problems what so ever. Life choices are about consequences, and if anything it would dilute and cheapen the experience of being a pirate if you could just do that with no consequences to deal with.

 

[Fromhell]

You know, it sounds like you're taking it all rather seriously yourself. Please tone down the character assassinations and wild generalisations.

I just do what the PvE-only lobbyists do...
- "Everyone wants to gank me, ruin my gameplay, halp"
- "Griefers are waiting in every corner of 100 000 000 000 star systems"
- "World of Warcraft is best game evah, most subs, PvE separation WoWclone #26352 rockzz"
- I want <insert immersion breaking safety option #6261>

 

[jabokai]

I just do what the PvE-only lobbyists do...
- "Everyone wants to gank me, ruin my gameplay, halp"
- "Griefers are waiting in every corner of 100 000 000 000 star systems"
- "World of Warcraft is best game evah, most subs, PvE separation WoWclone #26352 rockzz"
- I want <insert immersion breaking safety option #6261>

I'm a PvP player... and I'm lobbying for PvE because I want a lot more people than me (and other PvP happy people) to be happy with the game. :smilie:

 

[Cathy]

fromhell, Are you ok?