Modes These arguments are tedious.

[Deleted member 38366]

Hm, why change the rules for a tiny minority ?

It would be more realistic for PvE Players to demand Open to have less BGS effect. Obviously, it'd still not make sense and naturally the PvE side would never request such nonsense.

If PvP-centric (a gamey hobby really and not represented in-game with the exception of PowerPlay, Anarchy or Conflict Zones) Players want to participate in the BGS, they'll have to learn to follow BGS rules.
And those mean : Weaponized PVP isn't an effective means to run it. End of story.
They can continue to live in denial and probably lose - or accept how the rules work and begin being successful.

As the BGS is literally designed for indirect PvP by means of Factions and everything related to them, the whole Open vs. PG vs. Solo discussion is mousse. It's working precisely as intended.
BGS isn't built to serve any specific mode nor does it specifically favor Weapons fire. Easy as that.
The only issue is that some PvPers and most of the "Open is the only mode to play" advocates fail to understand these basic concepts since years. And instead of adapting, they keep complaining.
(I reckon there's still a few of these found frantically trying to clog a Station Mailslot and demand papers & legitimation from any Ship that attempts to dock or undock xD )

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Still need PVP BGS buckets, a rewrite to the missions system, and the devs desire to do all that!

Why not, game elements get reworked all the time. They specifically said they are working on Core Elements of the game in Beyond. I assume this is one of them.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Disclosure: I haven't read all 31 pages.

OP, aren't you making an assumption that 25% credit for solo/private BGS is able to be fairly and consistently applied? What triggers the 25%? Why not just flip to open at the appropriate time to get 100%? How do you see FDev preventing this?

 

[Eidolon]

Or we could get rid of PvP entirely, which would suit me perfectly. Or we could just leave things as they are. There, I compromised.

I like your thinking. It's obvious what needs to be done with the game.
I don't think FDev would miss 273 sourpuss's. Such a move may attract even more new players. Bam! A story we can all get behind.
But if things stay the same? Even that's cool.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Still need PVP BGS buckets, a rewrite to the missions system, and the devs desire to do all that!

I don't think that it would - as the only thing that would be required is a "system" permit that was not valid in Solo and Private Groups (and the game could stop players in the zone logging in in any other mode than Open).

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ank-attacks!?p=6635875&viewfull=1#post6635875

Also, This comment here from the new player. Just learned what the advantages and disadvantages are in Open Solo and Private.

Lets say a year from now if he sticks with the game. Do you think he would take his knowledge he gained from this experience. And apply it to effecting others know the risk is different and the reward is the same?

You're damn right hes going to.

Again, these little things with ship loadouts and stuff is everything people learn early on into the game. Why would someone intentionally put themselves at risk. When its clear you dont have to.

The whole "We are aware PVP is only a small portion of this community". You guys use this as quote ammo. But I dont think you guys understand what this actually means when they say it.

I don't think that it would - as the only thing that would be required is a "system" permit that was not valid in Solo and Private Groups (and the game could stop players in the zone logging in in any other mode than Open).

100% agree with this. A buddy in our group suggests this often as well.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

I like your thinking. It's obvious what needs to be done with the game.
I don't think FDev would miss 273 sourpuss's. Such a move may attract even more new players. Bam! A story we can all get behind.
But if things stay the same? Even that's cool.

If there is only 273 pvpiers how come there is a daily screech on the forums about being murdered in OPEN. What happened to the mobius army of 40K strong? I am sure they could easily take care of such a minorty ah?

Probably busy flying shieldless and shooting at top tier NPCs.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Hm, why change the rules for a tiny minority ?

It would be more realistic for PvE Players to demand Open to have less BGS effect. Obviously, it'd still not make sense and naturally the PvE side would never request such nonsense.

If PvP-centric (a gamey hobby really and not represented in-game with the exception of PowerPlay, Anarchy or Conflict Zones) Players want to participate in the BGS, they'll have to learn to follow BGS rules.
And those mean : Weaponized PVP isn't an effective means to run it. End of story.
They can continue to live in denial and probably lose - or accept how the rules work and begin being successful.

As the BGS is literally designed for indirect PvP by means of Factions and everything related to them, the whole Open vs. PG vs. Solo discussion is mousse. It's working precisely as intended.
BGS isn't built to serve any specific mode nor does it specifically favor Weapons fire. Easy as that.
The only issue is that neither some PvPers and most of the "Open is the only mode to play" advocates fail to understand these basic concepts since years. And instead of adapting, they keep complaining.
(I reckon there's still a few of these found frantically trying to clog a Station Mailslot and demand papers & legitimation from any Ship that attempts to dock or undock xD )

Not such a minorty. CG in open is pvp area every week. Everyone PvPies there. Same as engineers or Eravate. Lots of hot spots where PvP occurs.

Do we have hot spots where players come to mine every week? Or explore? Those are all player initiated activity ussually in private groups with low numbers. PvP however happens week after week in new locations, sometimes multiple locations at once.

Not such a minorty after all.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If there is only 273 pvpiers how come there is a daily screech on the forums about being murdered in OPEN.

There isn't a daily screech on the forums.

Not that I'm agreeing there's 273 PvPers.

Not such a minorty. CG in open is pvp area every week. Everyone PvPies there. Same as engineers or Eravate. Lots of hot spots where PvP occurs.

Do we have hot spots where players come to mine every week? Or explore? Those are all player initiated activity ussually in private groups with low numbers. PvP however happens week after week in new locations, sometimes multiple locations at once.

Not such a minorty after all.

That just simply doesn't make any sense. Because in Open there's hotspots, it's not a minority.

edit: No idea why your quote is split. It wasn't me.

 

[Jockey79]

Hey how was star trek in VR?

you said you were checking it out. I seen a little gameplay. its something I was hoping ED would do with Elite and their ships with multicrew. Minigames for the extra guy to give extra power/buffs instead PIP Cosplay.

It's really good fun, it's also cross platform and can be played with or without VR.
I had a game with a PS4 VR + Move, PC VR + Touch (me), PS4 + Gamepad and PC no VR + k/b & mouse. What a mix!

But it's great fun, played with people from all over Europe and the States so far.
Seen some really serious crews, almost TV show serious and also seen (and been) really, really drunk crews.
Had a drunk pilot once, was so drunk he crashed in to the same asteroid twice. It was hilarious.

(Side note, you can fit a 500Ml can of beer under the Oculus Rift, so you can drink beer without having to take the headset off! )

If you ever get it, shout me up because it can be a right giggle.

 

[Mouse]

Carving out a decent sized chunk of the galaxy and populating it with NPC Factions and Powers and any player Factions that would like to exist in that zone, then limiting access to that zone to Open only, could offer all of the existing gameplay with the difference that players not in Open could not affect anything in that zone. One zone per platform could be an additional option.

The game already has permit locked areas. The galaxy is big enough for all play-styles.

To keep things fair there would have to be a PG bubble and a Solo bubble... seems like a lot of work for FDev

If the Galaxy is big enough for all play-styles do we also get a pve-bubble for those who want it? I don't think there should be special treatment for any group and believe all modes should stay equal, no splitting.

--

What about other minority interests, I'd like a non-rngineers bubble, others would like a no-PP bubble etc, wheres does it stop? One of the strongest arguments against a pve mode was that it would split the player base, would this not do exactly that with dozens of 'special interest' bubbles splitting the open to fragments.

This ^

Disclosure: I haven't read all 31 pages.

OP, aren't you making an assumption that 25% credit for solo/private BGS is able to be fairly and consistently applied? What triggers the 25%? Why not just flip to open at the appropriate time to get 100%? How do you see FDev preventing this?

Actually I dont' see FDev preventing that, as that is exactly what the original proposal was meant to accomplish. That proposal isn't really mine actually, it is one a Open Only advocate floated as he demanded compromise. He saw it as a way to force PVErs into Open. For the sake of discussion I was saying if the majority of the player base agreed to that scenario what was the PVP community willing to compromise. Sadly doesn't seem to be anything at all.

 

[withnail]

There's a naughty part of me wishing you get what you wish.

Yay! It's all Open Only now .... uhm ... now what?
We defend our system.
Cool!
....
....
No one's attacking our system.
Yeah, all those solo/pg cowards won't come in open so they given up.
Pillocks
Damn straight, pillocks.
....
....
So ... who is doing the influence changing now?
....
....
Maybe we should ...
Hell naw, I aint going to fill boring PvE buckets. Let those PvE CMDRs take care of that.
But they won't.
Nah, cowards, the lot of them.
At least we're not losing influence
Exactly! Great isn't it?
We're not gaining any either.
Yeah .... cowards!
Pillocks!
Damn straight

*spaceweed*

Think you've lost the plot.

 

[Mouse]

Think you've lost the plot.

You thought there was a plot?

 

[Deleted member 38366]

If there is only 273 pvpiers how come there is a daily screech on the forums about being murdered in OPEN. What happened to the mobius army of 40K strong? I am sure they could easily take care of such a minorty ah?

Probably busy flying shieldless and shooting at top tier NPCs.

Hm, I take it they already do take care of them when it comes to the BGS.
Not much work needed though, since those 273 Players wasting their time patrolling SuperCruise and ganking the occaisonal Ship are utterly ineffective anyway.

But it's their call... waste their time with PvP PewPew or be effective with the BGS. It's either or. They've chosen to have their fun instead of working the BGS. That was their call, not i.e. Mobius call.

The old saying applies : You can show people the right doors but you can't make people actually walk through them.

 

[Meiko]

It looks like a lot of the PVPers are trying to recreate the Orwellian Animal Farm in space

All modes are equal/But some are more equal than others

Wonder who their Napoleon is?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Think you've lost the plot.

No I haven't.

The Butler is the spaceweed.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

No one really takes what Aunt says seriously anyways. He is completely against any of that happening.

Hey! I don't even take myself seriously! I sometimes wonder how seriously you take yourself as well. I'm half convinced you make the posts you do just to generate arguments and don't believe half of what you type.

But let's not get personal about this, those comments about my time as a mod are unworthy and in the past.

As for open only becoming a thing, damn straight i'm completely against it. Same as many others here.

And yes, i said if someone wanted X then they should play another game. No different if someone said they wanted ED to have The Simms like NPCs, i'd say, not going to happen, you need to find a game which has Simms like NPCs, for example, The Simms.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Hey! I don't even take myself seriously! I sometimes wonder how seriously you take yourself as well. I'm half convinced you make the posts you do just to generate arguments and don't believe half of what you type.

But let's not get personal about this, those comments about my time as a mod are unworthy and in the past.

As for open only becoming a thing, damn straight i'm completely against it. Same as many others here.

And yes, i said if someone wanted X then they should play another game. No different if someone said they wanted ED to have The Simms like NPCs, i'd say, not going to happen, you need to find a game which has Simms like NPCs, for example, The Simms.

Thats the thing it wouldnt be open only.

It would be Open when you attacked another player group. Are you in their rez site. Killing their ships? They should be able to stop you from doing that.

Are you running data for Influence? They should be able to stop you.

The modes would still exist. And people would have a choice.

except the choice is. Am I in conflict with X player group? PVP. Am I just doing personal progression and not trying to expand my player faction. Solo and private is perfectly fine.

As far as making up posts. Never have, sometimes ill reply like a smartass. But thats about it. Everything is 100% true in the way of balancing, shipbuilds, and shortcut methods people use.

As a matter of fact you could take this whole games population and map their controls to what the general public did regarding, BGS fights in specific modes, Ship builds for those fights, Credit fountains, PVP ships, Traderships. Hot spots. Material Farming.

You know they can see all of that right?

I bet there are some crazy looking charts out there that can reflect risk and reward. Optional vs Optimal and so on.

But none-the-less, IN any game, you should be able to use simple PVP in attack and defend scenarios. Right now its for griefing or PVP hub, And its not designed around objectives like PVP is designed to be. And its the obvious direction for the game to go. Its why the Hotel has been open for so long with rotating people coming in ready to help the game.

And then they get shut down by a crowd of the same people. And not the different people like the ones that have come and gone. Just the same ones that fight against it. For years.

 

[Mohrgan]

Thats the thing it wouldnt be open only.

It would be Open when you attacked another player group. Are you in their rez site. Killing their ships? They should be able to stop you from doing that.

Are you running data for Influence? They should be able to stop you.

The modes would still exist. And people would have a choice.

except the choice is. Am I in conflict with X player group? PVP. Am I just doing personal progression and not trying to expand my player faction. Solo and private is perfectly fine.

What about player groups not interested in PvP? What about individuals unknowingly taking missions that might have negative impact on your player group?

You and player group x can organize a conflict all on your own as it stands now. Without changing anything concerning the BGS, or the modes. Agree to engage in open, and leave the rest of the player base out of it. This kind of thing happens all of the time.

 

[Captain Willard]

No I haven't.

The Butler is the spaceweed.

SPACEWEED? weeeeeeeeeeeeee Count me in. LOL