This game has become to complex (to use).

[Noctover]

With all the additions of the last and current season (crime and punishment and now mining and discovery) i think the game has come far to complex to anyone not in the game yet.
To be honest, the complexity of the base game at release was for many people that i know already to high, but now it got bonkers!
Especially in the upcoming part. A dedicated weapon and analyzing mode, and (what? 8 or so?) different probe controller types, special Weapons against Ships and Weapons against Aliens.
Four Types of Mining Lasers and Missiles... Discovery Mode, Surface Scanner Mode (Or how the heck this stuff is named).

I don't know, i think Frontier should rework all that stuff and make it more streamlined and simple.
By just putting more and more features into the game it isn't necessarily becoming better.
Heck, I really have trouble to remembering all my different Hotas Button Combinations by now!
Let alone the Firegroups and Powermanagement settings on my Exploration and Mining Anaconda.
It is getting hideous!

Some things could "easily" (i know it will be quite a lot of work, but on the concept side) made more simple.
Just one Type of Probe Controller but maybe with different add on abilities applied to it (like a firmware add on).
This would eliminate the need of having so many different fire groups, but could preserve the gameplay / balance of limiting the availabe slots per ship.
(But to be honest, i don't like those limits anyway.) What you have targeted with it would determine the use of it. Well mostly. Repair or Refuel is an exception.
But Hatchbreaker on Enemies, Repair (or refuel) on Friends, one type on asteroids, the other on thargoids etc.
There isn't really a need for all those different scanners all with their own firegroup entry either.

It isn't about having less to do in the game, but to make it more user friendly and accessible.
I really think frontier should work on stuff like that in the future.

ED is a game played by many non-gamers. I think any gamer that picks up ED wont have any trouble picking it up, it isn't particularly complicated imho.

I was told when i got the game undocking and docking was tricky and took practice; it really was not.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

ED is a game played by many non-gamers. I think any gamer that picks up ED wont have any trouble picking it up, it isn't particularly complicated imho.

I was told when i got the game undocking and docking was tricky and took practice; it really was not.

it used to be trickier than it is now. i remember back at launch the station killed me more than anything else in the game... (admittedly partly due to bugs)
this was especially true when trying to get into it really quickly running silent and before getting scanned (I loved that)

 

[GODofDUTY83]

The best way for a new player to learn is to learn from us who know and are willing to teach.

 

[B1rdy]

I agree with those, who say ED is too complicated in some areas.
The very simple press and hold ADS mechanic is being replaced by more involving mechanics. That can be a good thing, if the process involves a challenge or is fun, essentially. However, if, with the outcome still being sort of the same and the new mechanics being seemingly disconnected with the game world, it may feel that only the controls got more convoluted, from a simple press and hold to three new hud modes and 20 additional buttons.
From my point of view, the only thing that could save and justify the new mechanics, is the fact that they enable you to detect and identify signal sources and also POIs on planets (via probes). Essentially the game makes you "work" more, but rewards you with more information. Now we have to review if these advantages are worth the new layer of controls (buttons and HUD).
Regarding mining, the new mechanics do not seem to produce a new outcome, though they enable player to find specific ressources more reliable. So the success of the new mining feature relies mostly on the profit it is going provide. It will most likely be used a few times regardless of the the profit. But after the novelty wears off, I guess it is mostly down to credits if players use the new mechanics.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

An inagme wiki, with simple explanations and a typeable search function. Too many ED thinsg are hidden in Tutorial videos.

Dis missile, how does it work? well try and error, because surely in the 34th century no one ever consdieredwriting a simple manual to the system you bought.

 

[FNLWA]

I feel like everyone has their own understanding of what complex means in this context. The way I understood OP was not to dumb down game mechanics or make the game easier in any way.

After you start the game for the first time you can do basic training missions which include flying, landing, combat, (old) mining, srv and slf. This alone will tell you that ED is not a game you just pick up and pew pew things.
There definitely is a learning curve in this game but I don't think this -kind- of complexity a bad thing at all. There is good and bad complexity. Bad complexity includes unintuitive mechanics, needlessly complex control schemes, overly complex requirements to do basic things. And most importantly: Anything you need to research externally.

By this definition large parts of the Guardian content fall under the "bad complexity" label. Here are the experiences of someone attempting to do Guardian content without external resources.
The Thargoid content isn't any better in that regard. The new mining is not so bad once you've seen it. Except not so much for new players, especially in a Sidewinder which can't even equip all the required tools. This definitely needs an updated training mission.

There's just so many little things in ED that are needlessly complex, or rather: clunky in their implementation.

• the entirety of the new C&P

"Why can't I use station services anymore? Why can't I pay this bounty? What exactly does "hot module" even mean?"
FD are actually addressing some of these questions with the new update, giving you more information on things and moving the "notoriety" from the darkest corners of the statistics tab to a more prominent location.

• basic mechanics which aren't explained ingame

E.g. silent running & ship integrity. I'm not asking for a cheat sheet which tells us everything about the game, some things are better to be left discovered by yourself. Just the basics. For example that pips in system boosts your shield strength. No it's not obvious. What even are Interstellar Factors and where do you find them? What do all the system/faction "states" mean and why should I care? etc.

• Little completely bonkers things like finding material traders in the galaxy map

Any discovered traders outside of a 40ly radius aren't even shown.. like, why?

The list goes on but that's generally what I think of when people say ED is needlessly complex.

 

[Noctover]

it used to be trickier than it is now. i remember back at launch the station killed me more than anything else in the game... (admittedly partly due to bugs)
this was especially true when trying to get into it really quickly running silent and before getting scanned (I loved that)

I remember the good old days of lining up with the mail slot from 20k boosting in FF off and gliding through the door in silent running... Now you just hear "Scan Detected" and pop a heatsink. Smuggling is any mans game!

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

Been playing THIS game since 84...

But, since the current beta added Analysis Mode with tools you can't close using the same keybind that opened them...

Yep, it's getting kinda clumsy, even for the veterans.

They fixed that. Look in the patch notes for beta 3, under exploration:

• Now able to bind enter and exit FSS to the same button"

 

[DaveB]

I think a lot of the OPs issues could be solved by a limited refactoring of control bindings. Even with no change at all to what the various controls do, it would be a good thing if, for example, it were more obvious which controls were in different contexts to each other and you could safely overload your controller by having the same button or axis do things in each context without them conflicting. Right now you "just have to know' where this is possible.

At release, this still existed but it was obvious - we had the controls for regular flight and we had a set of "landing overrides" that came into play with the gear down. They worked. They were an obvious context-switch. We also had a third context for when the system or galaxy map was up - by default our flight controls started managing the map view and not steering our ships (a good thing because we can't see where we are going with the maps up) We now have many more different contexts to consider. and in some cases the lines between them are a bit blurry - a good case in point is the analysis/combat HUD modes sharing fire groups, it's a context switch so EITHER we shouldn't see the items we can't trigger in that mode at all OR they should just silently fail to operate allowing us to make assignments for both modes to the same firegroup. What actually happens is that you either have to scroll through lots of firegroups full of stuff you can'ttrigger in that mode or you get spammed with "switch hud modes to use this" messages if your firegroups are overloaded and have items functional in both modes assigned.

It's perfectly OK to have a lot to manage, but when things are added incrementally like they have been the control tree tends to grow wild and unpruned. It's time FD got the shears out and reshaped it some.

 

[Drelthar]

I disagree 100%.

Most games are simplified down, as games designers like to do that (it makes it easier, and looks and sounds more elegant at conferences and talking to fellow designers) but a good old hugely complex intricate system is a rarity now. Just look at the new Xcom remakes. They are excellent, but I miss being able to look at 8 different stats per soldier, build multiple bases, have squads spread out across the globe, and send interceptors on scouting missions to find alien bases, swap weapons/items mid battle between soldiers by throwing them across the battle field -- to name a few things, from the original.

 

[B1rdy]

I disagree 100%.

Most games are simplified down, as games designers like to do that (it makes it easier, and looks and sounds more elegant at conferences and talking to fellow designers) but a good old hugely complex intricate system is a rarity now. Just look at the new Xcom remakes. They are excellent, but I miss being able to look at 8 different stats per soldier, build multiple bases, have squads spread out across the globe, and send interceptors on scouting missions to find alien bases, swap weapons/items mid battle between soldiers by throwing them across the battle field -- to name a few things, from the original.

This is not about simplifying the game so much. It is more that some mechanics and controls seem unnecessarily complicated, without a reason. I mean I am fine with Sandro saying "docking is supposed to be a process" as a reason for not adding a dedicated button. But having to bind essentially the same move controls in 4 separate control menus, is a "bit" clunky. It is cool, to be able to change it separately, but why is there no way to incorporate a uniform binding as a first step.
I am sure no one here wants "easy mode", rather not a game, which looks like a space ship game with "button memory" as its main challenge.
Look at FLNWA's post, perfectly reasonable, if you ask me.

 

[Ian Skippy]

But having to bind essentially the same move controls in 4 separate control menus, is a "bit" clunky. It is cool, to be able to change it separately, but why is there no way to incorporate a uniform binding as a first step.

The weird thing is that in some places it already exists: dont bind the SRV binding for some stuff and it'll automatically take the ship's binding instead. Binding it the same way is functionally the same as not binding it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The weird thing is that in some places it already exists: dont bind the SRV binding for some stuff and it'll automatically take the ship's binding instead. Binding it the same way is functionally the same as not binding it.

this is classic confirmation that ED does not tell us enough stuff!. 1500 hrs in and i did not know this!!!!

here is a suggestion.....

if i select pitch on my hotas for pitch on my ship, it could also "pencil in" automatically reccomended controls which could also share the same binding ideally do this in a 3rd column in addition to the ones we have now..... then i can confirm it if i choose or ignore its suggestion.

 

[Han Zulu]

but most of all the game needs better documentation, as well as a live ingame tutorial to handhold us through all the features at the start - possibly to earn our wings in the pilots federation???

Totally agree.

I think the current tutorial games should be integrated into the main game somehow. Perhaps you start in the tutorial, get the first rank, a license to fly essentially, and then this NPC is still available at some station where you can pick up new tutorial missions (even if they're not called that), and the NPC explains things like "buy this now", "open this module", "shoot there", or whatever.

--

And regarding the complexity of ED, I don't think it's complex but rather a bit convoluted. Complex is good. Convoluted is bad. In other words, complexity just means there's a lot to do, find, it has depth, etc, while convoluted is that the access to things are unnecessarily complicated. Not having more than 2 fire buttons for instance. I even believe that it can be more complex (over all), while being less convoluted (in specifics).

 

[Gully Foyle]

there are tons of games tailored to casuals... ELite thank god stays true to how it should be! Its brilliant the way it is...
I hate casuals and I hate what the games industry is doing to tailor every damn franchise towards casuals making them pointless to any real gamer...

This is absolutely how I feel as well.

Go gimp up some other game OPie

Give Starfox a try or NMS

 

[BDelacroix]

It is a flight sim. Much like Microsoft flight sim, there are a large number of controls on purpose.

 

[bootsam]

I grew up during 80's, Casuals can take their Pringles, Lois jeans and Sergio Taschini's and shove them.

 

[Para Handy]

...
Go gimp up some other game OPie
....

Why not just make a reply without insulting someone?

It is a flight sim. Much like Microsoft flight sim, there are a large number of controls on purpose.

Actually it is more like X-Plane - huge number of controls, no hand-holding, learn or don't, tough.

MS FltSim has realism settings as do others.

Addons for the games sim platforms have also in the main got difficulty / complexity settings.

The difference between all of the above and E D is that they at least attempt to keep their manuals up to date and provide useful, graduated tutorials. E D can't be bothered to do this.

Not that I am suggesting E D be simplified, although it might not hurt to have a simple ship with automatic control of e.g.: module priorities, weapon deployment and power management, docking and jumping sequences etc - say a Sidewinder mk1a or suchlike for a real newcomer to elect to try to gain some proficiency before disabling the auto-control of features as they wish or moving to a normal ship.

 

[march topcat]

I completely disagree to the OP. I want a complex and a SIM like game with complex handling and a lot to be learned and trained. I never play easy games, and I haven't enjoyed any of that simple stuff for the last 30 years - yes, I'm old ...
I've played Il2, X-Plane and DCS sims for years and still do. I liked the good old Silent Hunter games and used to calculate the torpedo firing solutions manually. That's the kind of gaming I do enjoy. Well of course, that's just me and I know that I am part of a minority and most people like different games.
But since the beginning of Elite in the Eighties I've liked the sim approach of the game. Of course, in the former Elite games there wasn't that much stuff as there is now, but today's technical standards allow much more complex and complicated games and I like that very much.
I wished Frontier headed more towards the Sim direction and am sad to see that it's rather the opposite way: I only mention the Arcade like Efficiency bonus for Space golf and unlimited probes with the DSS to please the ones who prefer simplified rewards and shortcuts.

The best games aren't weighed down by overly convoluted and complex systems. They're simple and enjoyable.

It depends what people consider "good" or "best". Your definition may be correct for those who like "simple". For me "simple" is very boring. In the end it's Frontiers decision what they want to make out of this game, in which direction they want to go. But they should be aware of the fact that Elite never was a mainstream game for players who like "simple" and easy games.


EDIT:
However, I agree that documentation and tutorials should be much improved to give new players a better chance to learn and get into the game.

 

[Jools]

Youtube, 3rd party and forum is NOT necessary.
It's how people are nowadays I don't blame em but its a trend especially with the kids.
Somehow alot have lost interest in discovering things for themselfs. IRL and Online.
Can you imagine how lazy kids/everyone will be in 10-20 yrs.

I`m sorry but you can`t really "discover" much in that game.... you can do your own notes, you can test stuff... but all your data is worth nothing because everything changes due to BGS and patches faster than you can gather data... unless you play 10h a day...

If it was a single player, more static game like FE2 than i would agree with you, but it`s not and the very poor presentation (often just obfuscation) of complex ingame data, and lack of logic in many systems does not help at all

and i enjoy the complexity, i just don`t like the lack of information in game (well it got a bit better) and constant Bee eS balancing changes