This game is about kill in opem

[Vasco Sapien]

How in the world would you make griefing difficult? The entire idea of griefing is to find someone who can't oppose you effectively. You don't make it difficult by punishing everyone who kills a CMDR regardless of any reasons (or lack of them).

No, I suggested that crime should come with rewards also (consummate with the risk of punishment). You opposed that flat out. Now you are continuing to make wild claims I want free money by ganking people and other garbage statements.

In short, balance is what I suggested. If you misread that, you need to go back. Any punishment should be no more lasting than the damage from the crime at a maximum. Some of the things folks are suggesting are just laughable.

Some griefs in game are up to Fdev to patch out, They are a result of bad game design. I alluded to griefing as an example of anti-social behaviour in Elite (in hindsight i shouldnt have listed it, Fair and ballanced PVP is my focus) and it is one that im willing to admit that in some cases there isnt an easy solution to and a C&P system isnt going to help. Kamikaze Sidewinders at space stations for example need to be addressed at a design level by Fdev.

'No, I suggested that crime should come with rewards also (consummate with the risk of punishment).'

I argue that 'crime' against 'another player' (with as you suggest) in some way offers rewards equal enough to the risk, mitigates that risk and is therefore not good game design. A game without risk isnt a game and punishment without sting isnt a deterrent.
Crime should provide risk in the form of punishment and that punishment should be in itself both a deterrent and an experiance in itself and depending on how well that has been implimented a rewarding one. But not necessarily for everyone because the difficulty will be a barrier to those without the skills to keep it up. For those that fail, justice is served, For those that succeed at crime an outlaw experiance can be had.
But the net result is curbing the carte blanche attitude delivered by criminal players in game. The cheque isnt blank and it will one day be cashed.

 

[Dbrn47]

What ED needs is a major change in regards to kill another cmdr. If you get killed in PvP you're​ dead. Period. No re-buy screen. You are back to the menu and you have to choose a new cmdr. Perhaps then people understand how precious life is.

You underestimate player killer resolve.

 

[bigity]

What ED needs is a major change in regards to kill another cmdr. If you get killed in PvP you're​ dead. Period. No re-buy screen. You are back to the menu and you have to choose a new cmdr. Perhaps then people understand how precious life is.

Yea...that would kill the game except for maybe a few folks. It takes too long to unlock bigger ships/locked ships, engineers, etc etc etc.

 

[Tenshi]

Did all of you people miss the part in the advertising "cut throat" and "Hunt other commanders"? I am not saying open should be a shooting gallery, but just today what I was called for shooting at a person that failed to comply while I was trying to pirate him (an advertised profession in this game) I could not say here or in many other games without facing a major ban. Yes I want to see a C&P added but any C&P that is strong enough to get what people call griefers here to stop will kill piracy, as well as PVE as the same C&P needs to be applied when killing NPCs or it is to one sided. Also there were alot less murderers in this game until FD showed their inability to enforce rules against combat logging (called an exploit by them over 2 years ago), so the rest of the community is not innocent in the problems here and it is not just the PVPers that cause the problems.

I never saw the part where it also mentions Elite Dangerous was going to be CS-GO either or COD in SPaaaaaace.

 

[bigity]

Some griefs in game are up to Fdev to patch out, They are a result of bad game design. I alluded to griefing as an example of anti-social behaviour in Elite (in hindsight i shouldnt have listed it, Fair and ballanced PVP is my focus) and it is one that im willing to admit that in some cases there isnt an easy solution to and a C&P system isnt going to help. Kamikaze Sidewinders at space stations for example need to be addressed at a design level by Fdev.

'No, I suggested that crime should come with rewards also (consummate with the risk of punishment).'

I argue that 'crime' against 'another player' (with as you suggest) in some way offers rewards equal enough to the risk, mitigates that risk and is therefore not good game design. A game without risk isnt a game and punishment without sting isnt a deterrent.
Crime should provide risk in the form of punishment and that punishment should be in itself both a deterrent and an experiance in itself and depending on how well that has been implimented a rewarding one. But not necessarily for everyone because the difficulty will be a barrier to those without the skills to keep it up. For those that fail, justice is served, For those that succeed at crime an outlaw experiance can be had.
But the net result is curbing the carte blanche attitude delivered by criminal players in game. The cheque isnt blank and it will one day be cashed.

What you aren't seeing or recognizing is that the game was billed as having pirates and piracy. You keep throwing up crime as something horrible and mean - it's a video game. Being an outlaw is a draw and a selling point of the game. It is just a valid a playstyle as a bounty hunter, just with different risks/rewards but equal.

You keep wanting to police 'attitude' and 'morals' by basing your argument that people who want to pirate someone in-game must be stopped. No, they don't. They should simply play in the game under different risks/rewards than other folks, balanced for both.

If you don't agree with that, that's fine.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

What ED needs is a major change in regards to kill another cmdr. If you get killed in PvP you're​ dead. Period. No re-buy screen. You are back to the menu and you have to choose a new cmdr. Perhaps then people understand how precious life is.

And i park my 1% sidewinder by the letterbox of a station. An innocent player docks or leaves and is running at 101 Mps. I get in his way and i explode.

MURDER!!

That poor soul is now back at square one.

---

A C&P system needs ballance.

Also fdev need to fix these Grief exploits

- - - Updated - - -

What you aren't seeing or recognizing is that the game was billed as having pirates and piracy. You keep throwing up crime as something horrible and mean - it's a video game. Being an outlaw is a draw and a selling point of the game. It is just a valid a playstyle as a bounty hunter, just with different risks/rewards but equal.

You keep wanting to police 'attitude' and 'morals' by basing your argument that people who want to pirate someone in-game must be stopped. No, they don't. They should simply play in the game under different risks/rewards than other folks, balanced for both.

If you don't agree with that, that's fine.

Crime is linked with punishment.

The very experiance of being a criminal comes with the inevitable pursuit of justice.

If you play Elite to be a pirate then punishment is part of the parcel. Its part of the experiance, Expect that.... demand that.


--


Im bored of this now. My girlfriend has just come over and she has brought with her her Wonder Women costume.
I don't know about you but i know what id rather be doing with my evening.

 

[Tenshi]

What you aren't seeing or recognizing is that the game was billed as having pirates and piracy. You keep throwing up crime as something horrible and mean - it's a video game. Being an outlaw is a draw and a selling point of the game. It is just a valid a playstyle as a bounty hunter, just with different risks/rewards but equal.

You keep wanting to police 'attitude' and 'morals' by basing your argument that people who want to pirate someone in-game must be stopped. No, they don't. They should simply play in the game under different risks/rewards than other folks, balanced for both.

If you don't agree with that, that's fine.

You can play real life how you want to, but do you see people wandering around killing each other or crashing into other vehicles for the lolz?

No you don't that is because most people abide by the law of the land they live in and don't go to jail and loose years of their life sitting in a cell.

Elite Dangerous doesn't have anything like this, it has no punishment for those who wish to live the criminal life, this is the main point of this thread. There are no consequences to killing random people for the lolz.

A karma system would work in Elite and push the outlaws into anarchy systems, if they enter a system with a active police force then they should be interdicted by the npcs and fired upon at any opportune point in time. Also they shouldn't be allowed to land at stations or use the services there. You made the choice to live as a outlaw now live that life, no one is stopping you.

 

[urth]

if there was no rebuy for pvp would this even be a problem? i mean why build a space pen (C&P system), when we could just use a space pencil.

 

[bigity]

You can play real life how you want to, but do you see people wandering around killing each other or crashing into other vehicles for the lolz?

No you don't that is because most people abide by the law of the land they live in and don't go to jail and loose years of their life sitting in a cell.

Elite Dangerous doesn't have anything like this, it has no punishment for those who wish to live the criminal life, this is the main point of this thread. There are no consequences to killing random people for the lolz.

A karma system would work in Elite and push the outlaws into anarchy systems, if they enter a system with a active police force then they should be interdicted by the npcs and fired upon at any opportune point in time. Also they shouldn't be allowed to land at stations or use the services there. You made the choice to live as a outlaw now live that life, no one is stopping you.

Talk about a straw man.

Again - outlaw (and pirate) is a valid, designed, career choice according to FDev.

Yes, there should be punishments - equal to the reward AND in balance with the other professions. That's all I'm saying and have said.

 

[Hellfire85]

And terrorists proved they could cause considerable damage to the USS Cole with a speedboat loaded with explosives, but this is an exception, not the rule - a speedboat vs. a navy destroyer very favors the destroyer.

And I'm sure there's more than a few commanders out there that have shut down and driven off Capital Ships with a Sidewinder - so I don't disagree either - there are some with actual skills. But I'd wager there are at least twice as many who's "skill" is entirely Engineer-based as well. I'd also wager if you weren't one of the Stock Sidewinder duelists, you'd likely be part of the "That was FUN." group. And if you haven't done it, I'd suggest giving it a try, because it is fun as heck and cheap too.

I have an unengineered eagle I take out for a spin every now and then.

 

[SukramLeinad]

Yes, playing in open is just a misery. My cumulative playtime is 10 weeks+ and I was killed about 20 times by humans since then and they always attacked with overwhelming power, leaving me no chance. But such are humans. This how we are.

There was only one positive encounter: One "novice" asked me for help with an exploration mission. It was great fun to help and then two more guys landed nearby.

When I go into open I only do this with fast light craft with performance enhanced drives, without weapons (to save weight) and tuned with dirty drive tuning to the maximum. The I-Eagle (goes 850+), Sidewinder (goes 650+) are my favorites. Make sure you have chaff. Anything below 650 is not viable as the mass-killer FDL goes up to 530.

Update: I wish FD would replace the single mode with a second open mode where PvP action is still possible but will be punished. The attacker would have to pay 10 times the damage caused to the game (and not to the victim as this is exploitable) while the victim gets free repair and free re-buy as needed. To compensate, NPCs would become much more powerful - I am not worried about NPCs at all and I am "deadly". (At this level you get occasionally interdicted by small wing of Elite Anacondas with some modded weapons and modules, which I can handle perfectly safely in any of my various ships.)

 

[4gui4]

Yes, playing in open is just a misery. My cumulative playtime is 10 weeks+ and I was killed about 20 times by humans since then and they always attacked with overwhelming power, leaving me no chance. But such are humans. This how we are.

There was only one positive encounter: One "novice" asked me for help with an exploration mission. It was great fun to help and then two more guys landed nearby.

When I go into open I only do this with fast light craft with performance enhanced drives, without weapons (to save weight) and tuned with dirty drive tuning to the maximum. The I-Eagle (goes 850+), Sidewinder (goes 650+) are my favorites. Make sure you have chaff. Anything below 650 is not viable as the mass-killer FDL goes up to 530.

Update: I wish FD would replace the single mode with a second open mode where PvP action is still possible but will be punished. The attacker would have to pay 10 times the damage caused to the game (and not to the victim as this is exploitable) while the victim gets free repair and free re-buy as needed. To compensate, NPCs would become much more powerful - I am not worried about NPCs at all and I am "deadly". (At this level you get occasionally interdicted by small wing of Elite Anacondas with some modded weapons and modules, which I can handle perfectly safely in any of my various ships.)

This is the reality ... who plays in open knows what are talking about here.
There is a category of players specialized in ruin the progress of others for their enjoyment.
Was created CQC, 100% combat, challenge and even a fourth Elite, they weren't interested . The game is on life support.

Frontier has an eye on it, as DB says. But he has a business to run and has been doing very well over the years.

I think the strong and united community in Elite is perfectly capable of finding solutions to the game thrive and grow.

If the blood bath helps to grow the base of players ok I stop being against ... Let's blow up players is fun , is good for game , helps....
or welcoming the new. ... Elite is difficult to play ... need lots help at the beginnin...

David Braben congratulations and keep up the good work but as a player read customer also I have an eye on the product... the game.[alien]

 

[Nelina]

Mobius isn't the problem. The fear mongering that comes from commanders that are unaware or don't like failing is.

No. The Problem is that only one side has something to loose. Time.
As long as any Pirate has no more to loose than a tiny bit of ingame-credits, they are not worth my time.
Even just high-waking away will hurt pirates more than destroying their ship.
So its simply a waste of Time to play with criminals in ED.

Refusing the insurance-company service for known criminals would bring a lot of ppl to a hunting-party.
But i bet most of the bad boys would cry too loud how unfair it is to design a game with common senses like in rl, blablabla...

 

[Deadspin]

No. The Problem is that only one side has something to loose. Time.
As long as any Pirate has no more to loose than a tiny bit of ingame-credits, they are not worth my time.
Even just high-waking away will hurt pirates more than destroying their ship.
So its simply a waste of Time to play with criminals in ED.

Refusing the insurance-company service for known criminals would bring a lot of ppl to a hunting-party.
But i bet most of the bad boys would cry too loud how unfair it is to design a game with common senses like in rl, blablabla...

It's funny how you bring up common sense and real life yet totally fail to actually utilize either of those two things when taking into account the size and complexity of the in-game world of Elite.

Pirates have to spend their time hunting down players worth stopping just like traders have to spend their time running down missions and cargo. I'd say just be happy that this even has insurance.

 

[Nelina]

It's funny how you bring up common sense and real life yet totally fail to actually utilize either of those two things when taking into account the size and complexity of the in-game world of Elite.

Pirates have to spend their time hunting down players worth stopping just like traders have to spend their time running down missions and cargo. I'd say just be happy that this even has insurance.

Wow, you have my commiseration for the time you are waiting. Rotfl.

 

[Deadspin]

Wow, you have my commiseration for the time you are waiting. Rotfl.

I'm not saying it's some exorbitant amount of time. Unless the player is pirating the SC lanes between a sun and the station for a CG, there isn't any rhyme or reason to utilize to work out where the most profitable pirating routes are going to be.

When we can make hundreds of millions of credits a day using methods that have been written out, fool proofed and catalogued on Reddit/wherever else, is that much time really lost?

I could get behind the time argument if we were playing with the launch version of the game, where making a million credits meant you had to put your nose to the grind stone for days on end and having a hundred million was a feat to brag about. Given that today we can make 40-50 million credits in a days worth of laid back grinding, I'm less inclined to buy into the "But my time is lost with those credits!" argument.

 

[Morbad]

Since I don't grind credits or use any of the myriad money making exploits, any time someone downs one of my combat vessels, I lose hours, days, or weeks worth of income.

If I were a pirate, I'd lose even more, as it would be an even lower level of income than odd missions, the occasional bounty voucher, and non-cheesed exploration that make up the bulk of my funding.

 

[NeilF]

Yeah it's driving people into Mobius. And the only response I've seen to this is that Mobius is the problem, not the mechanics sending people there.

<jaded>And do FD care?</jaded>

With a better balanced C&P mechanics where psychotic behaviour meant a CMDR was treated like a psycho, OPEN might be a more viable option for more CMDRs. And surely we (the players) want as many CMDRs in OPEN as possible (as long as it gives them the game experience they like)... But, ultimately, do FD care what the split is between OPEN, GROUP and SOLO? ie: A player in GROUP or SOLO is still a player?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

<jaded>And do FD care?</jaded>

With a better balanced C&P mechanics where psychotic behaviour meant a CMDR was treated like a psycho, OPEN might be a more viable option for more CMDRs. And surely we (the players) want as many CMDRs in OPEN as possible (as long as it gives them the game experience they like)... But, ultimately, do FD care what the split is between OPEN, GROUP and SOLO? ie: A player in GROUP or SOLO is still a player?

I would just be glad of a system security status and a wanted system that meant that going into anarchy systems means I should be AFRAID regardless of my super corvette or being a trader while going into a high security system.

And having a 400 credit bounty should mean I will have a wing of super anacondas on my going into a high security system and dodge interdictions like crazy.

- Ramp up security response time by a factor of 10 per system security rating
- Ramp up security projected firepower by a factor of 10 per system security rating

 

[NeilF]

I would just be glad of a system security status and a wanted system that meant that going into anarchy systems means I should be AFRAID regardless of my super corvette or being a trader while going into a high security system.

And having a 400 credit bounty should mean I will have a wing of super anacondas on my going into a high security system and dodge interdictions like crazy.

- Ramp up security response time by a factor of 10 per system security rating
- Ramp up security projected firepower by a factor of 10 per system security rating

Needs more thought than that.

When I pirate even if I use the new improved "leave your brain at the doorstep" hatch breaker mechanics, in many systems, by the time I'm scooping cargo up, there's security ships there, even though I've used absolute minimal force (and not a shot fired).

This alone means I'm almost being forced into one of two outcomes with CMDRs:-
- They give me their cargo willingly.
- If they don't, I may as well blow them up in the hope they will next time.

^ How daft is that!