To Fly in Open or Not - Is Ganking/Griefing Really That Bad?

[Derath]

One more thing to all the open players here: whenever the topic comes up, there is a list of advice on how to avoid other players. Can somebody please explain to me what's the point of choosing a game mode which includes other players, then having the highest goal of avoiding them? This seems quite contradictory to me and very much advertises the Solo mode... for me the fun in multiplayer comes from interacting with other players, not in working hard to avoid them.
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You don't avoid everyone, the game lets you identify players and their loadouts long before they get anywhere relevant. I can give you 101 pieces of advice on how to not get interdicted in the first place and avoid players but fundamentally you actually don't have to apply it in 9/10 cases, most players just happy minding their own business even in busy areas. I understand your point though quite a few do essentially suggest you play open but then go to an area of space where your solo

 

[Sandmann]

A Cobra MkIV...

Well.. more defenceable than a T6... but it's no Cutter. (so YOU'RE the player who flies the MkIV... I know SOMEONE was flying one.)

 

[Helvetios]

Join mobius PVE private group

 

[Leper Messiah]

I play solo, as I do in every game. I have no desire to be someone elses "content" especially those critically stunted in the groin region (i.e. petty bullies). Stats and saying it's "rare" are utterly irrelevant for me, it's 100% a no no even once. At least I could slap my younger cousins for being cheating oiks when playing Gran Turismo. Imagine if the world worked like a multiplayer game......utter chaos and anarchy would reign supreme.

 

[Spacemarkl]

Well.. more defenceable than a T6... but it's no Cutter. (so YOU'RE the player who flies the MkIV... I know SOMEONE was flying one.)

Hehe, it's not a popular ship but I like it, especially with engineering I'm slowly improving it. But still, against a player with Anaconda/Clipper/FDL I'd never have a chance.

 

[Sylow]

You don't avoid everyone, the game lets you identify players and their loadouts long before they get anywhere relevant. I can give you 101 pieces of advice on how to not get interdicted in the first place and avoid players but fundamentally you actually don't have to apply it in 9/10 cases, most players just happy minding their own business even in busy areas. I understand your point though quite a few do essentially suggest you play open but then go to an area of space where your solo

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Yea. I have read a number of posting along "play Open but don't go to beginner systems (*1), don't go to the founders world in a cargo ship (*2), don't go to Engineer systems (*3*) don't go to CGs (*4) and generally don't go to other areas, e.g. Lave and surroundings, where players tend to aggregate (*5)". This whole list for me stinks. I mean, those who claim to PvP for a challenge can find it. Shooting players in cargo ships is no challenge, even a mediocre pilot like me would have no problems with that.
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Going for a duel against another player in a PvP fitted ship (or a group fight among players with experience in duels), on the other hand, is probably the most challenging fight you can find. And hey, those fights happen. There are -actual- PvP players around, who know each other, meet and fight each other and hone their skills that way. By doing that, they probably are the best pilots in the game. But you know what they don't do? Interdict random people. They know they won't gain anything from that, neither a challenge nor fun or combat training. So they don't waste their time on that. (Additionally, they wouldn't even be affected negatively if the game would have a "consensual PvP only" mode. After all, they are organized, they know where to meet and they agree on fighting each other. Those people who would not agree on PvP would be too easy targets anyway, and thus not worth their time. )
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Knowing this just gives me a different perspective on those, who find it necessary to interdict people in non-combat ships. People found different terms for them, but "Wannabe" is the most fitting one in my eyes.
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*1: they are full of those who look for beginners to shoot at.
*2: it is full of people looking for those who look for easy player kills, which cargo ships are.
*3: they are full of those looking for people who just refit cargo space into their ships and thus are not perfectly combat fit?
*4: they are full of those looking for players in cargo ships for easy kills.
*5: they are full of those who just want to shoot other players who don't agree on PvP, because their ships probably are not fitted for PvP.
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[OLd_Sarg]

as the OP said, high value data,
I returned to the bubble after this little jaunt in my Sidewinder; so no open for me, I almost asked for an escort as is. [where is it]
I do like to explore, but anything in the bubble has little interest for me.

I do like the sound of the passenger missions. But can you eject the passengers is they ask for a change in there destination? If so that could be fun... [haha]

 

[tomalus]

The chance you get killed for no reason will increase in systems where alot of players visit,founders world,lave,community goals,alien sites.engineer bases.

While you will probably not get ganked you can annul the chance if you play solo while visiting those systems. Its a must for some situations for example :

Returning after days/weeks/months exploration trip,you dont want some destroy your exploration data
Traveling with engineer commodities all over the bubble, you dont want to waste your hours long seesion to some joker above engineer base trolling

 

[DarthBlingBling]

I play very rarely when i've got some spare time, usually when they've tweaked some engineer mods on my favourite weps. I'll probably come back and play for a week for example when the plasma changes go live that i read in a sticky at the top (if they aren't live already), I get good enjoyment out of advanced accelerators and the idea of fueling them off ship fuel appeals to me as a build and builds are the only thing left that excites me here .

Combat logging did me in really, i mean the general turtle pace of what seemed like obvious balance changes as well but mostly that the unpredictable content i enjoyed (piracy) became increasingly crippled not just by combat logging but the general transition towards giant SCB choked bulwark ships and wings. I wouldn't last more than a couple of days with a bounty like that now and it isn't just because i'm much more scrubby than i was.

I still miss T6's ramming me while dumping biowaste everywhere though, some players were truly epic.

Remember me and Spacetexas hunting for you? Think you were number 1 on the bounty board and we found you at random in a seeking luxuries beacon attacking the T9s to get their goods. We tried our luck, but we were naive and early into the game and no match against your then tanky Python.

It's only these random encounters you'll only ever see in open. I had another last week, someone who has been hunting me for the last year. He logged into the game in the same instance at the exact moment I was ramming myself into the planet floor and blowing myself up (doing the 17 Drac thang).

 

[Ian Skippy]

This is the issue I have with all these "Open" is safe comments .. It's safe as long as you avoid anywhere where something is actually happening.

Every time I have ventured into open I have been attacked* because I was in a "Named" system or visiting an engineer .. We are told you need to have an engineered ship to compete, but we can't go to an engineer as we might be attacked*

*For no other reason but LoLz

I didnt say Open is safe. Try again when you have more than a bias-driven strawman.

 

[Flavourless]

Why oh why does this keep coming up??

Not choosing Open mode at any particular time is not about griefing, or about being scared of anything, or about hiding.
It is about playing a game in one of the 3 equal modes provided by the developers that most suits the player at that time.

Open is in no way special or superior. It it just a different matchmaking mechanism.

(I have played 99% Open since Beta 2, but that is my choice, not a requirement)

 

[rrobes]

Exigeous

Quote

"So for whatever reason you seem to just be determined to disagree with me and put words in my mouth no matter how clear I am. I'm going to try one last time to get through to you although somehow I doubt it's possible."

Unquote

You lost me with your condescension and implied superiority.

And as to getting through, I see your argument and through your argument.

 

[Maelkhor]

The world already working like a multiplayer.....there are only some major difference, you cant ragequit or play in solo sessions
And if you always run away, you know, sooner or later you have to face the situation.

You forgot the fact that being a total a* IRL also has consequences, unlike in ED, and the fact it is legit IG doesn't make one a lesser a*.

 

[Leper Messiah]

The world already working like a multiplayer.....there are only some major difference, you cant ragequit or play in solo sessions
And if you always run away, you know, sooner or later you have to face the situation.

I disagree, mp games and games with mp (elite is no exception) usually have insufficient rules and laws to stop anarchic behaviour from significant subsections. If the world was like that it would be like mad max. Humans are funny, with such an over inflated superiority complex over animals. Yet when it comes down to it "civilised behaviour" is the thinnest of veneers. Doesn't take much at all to get through the veneer and unleash the animal within.

 

[GODofDUTY83]

All this open v solo garbage.
You know I think the only people who really have a problem are those who cant kill the CMDRs who are influencing the systems they are based in. Boo Hoo.
As far as I'm concerned we as players are given a choice and having choice is good. Play what ever way you want.
If you play in open you basically consent to meeting unsavoury types.
Why do people always try to control the actions of others ?

 

[Drevon]

I played in beta alot because I broke my femur in 2 places so I was on my for longer then I could stand. And this game saved me. It was just after group/solo started and I was seeing how bad ganking was in open so I played all solo. Had tons of fun.

2 months ago my life slowed down enough to come back and play live. 3 times I have tried to play open.... all 3 were the same.... leave safe zone from station... insta gib by a half billion credit ship.....

So yes open is a pure gank for no reason fest. The dregs of society always do that with any game that lets them. That is why in every MMO pvp servers are begged for... then they are made... and they close in less than a year. Why? Easy the dregs who play 24/7 advance to the top and then just kill underpowered players all day.

There is no real thing stopping them right now in open. In real life the insurance companies would be offering 500 million credit bounties for these greifers because of all the credits they are costing them. Any system that has any security would be hunting them down. They would send out reports to all security in every system when they saw these players... with high wake info so the next system knows they are heading that way. They would never have a second of time where they were not being hunted unless they were to live in un secure space. The insurance companies would force space ports to refuse admittance to these players. And it would take much its not like they are helping with the commerce that these stations make a living from.

So anyone who wants it to be real... knows that indiscriminate ganking like in real life would end in death or hiding out in the middle of nowhere to stay alive. The ones who want this free for all open experience just want to grief. What is being proposed is a good start. But still not close to what the populace would be screaming for. And how angry the authorities/power players would be with this stuff going on in their territories.

So you grief you should be met with security forces the moment you hit a system.. because in real life like I said they would be reporting your position to the rest of the security forces across the universe. If you kill someone with no bounty/wanted then you should get 2 weeks of real life time of this kind of security presence everywhere you go. If you attack security forces it should be a month.. .additive so it stacks on previous time.

Do this and watch how no one wants to kill anyone.... just like in real life the number of serial killers is per capita very small compared to open in this game.

 

[rrobes]

What is conveniently ignored is that ganking/griefing is unbalanced; it has advantages of surprise, numbers and little consequence.

Other game aspects are micro-balanced to single digit percentages!

Make a balance and let it continue, is all.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

From what I've experienced since signing on during beta, no, ganking/griefing isn't really as bad as people seem to believe it is. I've been ganked all of one time, when I decided to hop in a sidewinder in Eravate to show my buddy the ropes. Got interdicted by some guy in a F.A.S., saw him screaming "the order of <such and such> Has a divine mandate to purge the galaxy of sidewinders!" Then was promptly melted by lasers.

I do mostly eke out my existence in random backwater systems where I rarely see other players, but I do go to engineer my ships on a semi-regular basis in open and besides some impromptu races around farseer inc. they've been uneventful; even with numerous commanders milling around the system.

 

[Ziljan]

Summary for those that don't want to read the analysis below let me sum it up. With my experience, which from talking with many commanders seems somewhat average (play time, earnings, etc) here are the main 2 stats

0.05% of total play time I was being griefed or killed
4.75% of my total assets was spent on rebuys

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I've been having some interesting conversations around piracy, specifically around gankers or griefers. I've had many pilots say they don't fly in open as they don't want to get killed or griefed, etc. This made me wonder how bad can it really be? I've gotten killed 5 times by gankers and I didn't care at all, but why? I don't have that much currency and haven't played the game all that long. So what is it that makes people play in solo/private? Being clear I strongly believe that everyone has the right to play how they want, in no way am I passing judgement or saying someone should play my or another other way. Who the hell would I be to dictate that??

So I did some math based on my play time and assets. I have no idea if I'm near average or not so if I'm majorly missing the mark let me know.

• I've played 400 hours
• I've been killed by commanders 5 times
• Each gank it takes 2.5 minutes for me to die
• Average rebuy cost is $4M
• I have $250M in the bank, assets of $450M and $1B spent on outfitting

NOTE: Let's rule out high risk cases like having a huge amount of trade data when returning to the bubble. I agree the risk is too high and pilots should go into solo/private for these rare times.

Okay, now let's look at some stats around the above numbers

• 12.5 minutes of death
• 24,000 minutes of play time
• 0.05% of my total play time I was getting killed and dying
• Those 5 deaths cost me $20M total
• That's 2% of the total I've spent on outfitting
• At the time of death it's 4.75% of my total assets

I realize these numbers might be overly simplistic and I may be way off the mark in terms of average play time and assets. If I am please post your numbers and do your own math. IMHO I'd gladly have 1.6% of my time be getting killed as the excitement and risk it adds FAR outweigh any negatives to me.

Finally know I have no agenda here other than sharing what I enjoy with others. I think open is awesome, there's very little in the game currently that makes me play solo/private. Doing skimmer missions where another commander will be there doing the same, sure, solo. Sightseeing with friends who insist on private, great. Any kind of non-wing play and I'm in open, every time.

Very curious to hear from the hardcore solo/private players as to why they don't fly open. Again being 100% clear I'm not judging anyone nor saying that my way is the "right" way. There is NO right way to play Elite and thank god for me no wrong (as I'd surely be getting it wrong!!)

~X


UPDATE: It was pointed out to me that I had a typo in my math which I've now corrected. I incorrectly stated that I had spent 125 minutes "dying" where that should have been 12.5 With that change the percentage of time played I was dying isn't 1.6% that I originally posted but rather 0.05%

This lines up almost exactly with my experience of playing for 20 months (roughly 2000 hours). Though my deaths account for 0.0125% of time in game and I die from PvP once every 400.

I think I have as many PVP encounters, but it sounds like I die about 20% as often, probably because I've been playing the game a lot longer. I'm sure my mortality rate was similar to yours in my first 400 hours. Still very small by any metric when compared to the PVE portion. And most of my deaths have been PVE, or suicides to clear PVE bounties accrued from playing the BGS.

 

[Cupcake]

Yes we play it for fun. Why would you think ANY ganking is fun for the victim? If a player doesn't wanna pewpew then there is NOTHING positive you can get from open, only negatives.

I'm sorry but I really dont understand the mentality of your argument here. You are saying a player that enters open mode and kills another player who is in open by CHOICE is a bad ganker/griefer? If a player doesnt want to "pewpew" as you so eloquently put it, they are free to use private group or solo, all the things you need are already there, you just want your cake and eat it too.