TYPE-10 DEFENDER, a ship with the potential to act differently in combat.
- Thread starter GN_Abbude
- Start date
I know I’m super late to this conversation and likely won’t get a response but so far I agree with a lot of whats been said. I think most any can agree the Type 10s power distributor should be upped to a class 8 but I personally think they should also up its armor hardness to at least 80 perferably 85. This would both put it significantly above other ships in terms of hull durability and make it so that even a focused medium pulse/burst at 77pen would still suffer damage mitigation meaning an enemy would need either a large cannon/ focused pulse or a super high pen railgun/plasma accelerator to get through your armor without mitigation.
The Beluga!? Is that a typo? Lol
No way, you're thinking about only using the type-10 for combat. Who cares about combat. Noone. Not even close.
Also, if you have problems with distributor, why don't you try engineering out some of the draw and see if that works anyway, or try not using all energy weapons? And engineer out those too?
Also, if you have problems with distributor, why don't you try engineering out some of the draw and see if that works anyway, or try not using all energy weapons? And engineer out those too?
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I came to the same conclusion about the shields after analyzing the specs of the T-10. The purpose of the T-10 appears to be to sustain in a fight for a long time. The shielding isn't as high in joules as some other large ships but because the regen can be very fast with the bi-weave, and as long as it isn't taking overwhelming fire, the regen makes it's effective shielding very high. I think the trick with the T-10 is too engineer for low absolute MJoules and boost the strength with resistances, to take best advantage of the regen of the bi-weave. A distributer engineered for systems recharging makes a difference. If you take, like, 1.5 minute to take down the shield, you basically had to do 2x the damage to it. That is why it can be very strong. A single 7A specialized shield cell bank with boss cells will restore a large portion of the shield. It has 5 uses. Good for those moments when you are targeted by multiple ships.
Ships with extremely high joule shields and perhaps engineered for high capacity, on the other hand, are better suited to enter very intense engagements that are expected to end quickly, where regen isn't the main issue, but being able to soak up lots of weapon fire over a short period of time.
The T-10 is a different kind of tank probably good for long engagements in a CZ.
It is a little bit still theoretical for me because I am still working on engineering capabilities and acquiring credits. I have a T-10 Defender but not highly engineered yet. I was also looking to equip weapons on the T-10 that are intended to target the larger ships in a CZ. I was hoping to enter the CZ and quickly target and attack the largest ships with T-10 with a high degree of weapon fire specifically intended to counter the large ships. I was hoping that would tip the battle in favor of my side very early and allow my side to snowball to victory.
I just have not been able to get back to that for a while. Too many things to do.
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Do NOT touch my class 8 optional internal slot! That is what makes my baby shine. Great for mining and cargo hauling. Also, when I DO go for a bit of PvE combat, I usually mount a shield in that class 8 slot. I really haven't had much problems with my power distributor. In most of the activities that I have engaged in, I have never had any problems with running out of juice. When I do combat, I usually run 4 large burst lasers and 3 medium and 2 small multicannons. With one or two extra pips into weapons, I can literally keep firing those guns all day long. For combat I usually employ a rather silly tactic. I just slow to a stop and become a whirling ball of death to any NPC ships that stray too close. It's worked pretty well for me so far. Even in medium CZs (haven't tried high CZs yet, though). By the way, my Type 10 is now finally fully G5'd. I love my little Bulldog of a ship! 
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That approach fails diabolical badly with thargoid scouts - I lost a deadly NPC pilot to enzime missiles in 3305
This is a well thought out approach to making the T-10 the legitimate member of the big league that it should have been out of the box. Can we also add a little buff to its manoeuvrability in both supercruise and normal space while we are at it?
There are so many balance issues in this game that we'd be much better off looking at core systems in the game instead of looking at particular ships. A size 8 cap isn't going to fix the T10. In fact, I'm pretty sure it won't change the T10's ability in the slightest.
For example, hull hardness: A mechanic that reduces hull damage from small weapons. Alternative: Reduces penetration damage, raising the effective integrity of a ships modules, and given higher affinity towards ships designed with a focus on hull strength, as in, somewhat opposite to a ship's shield multiplier (not just a higher value because size and cost). Acts like a built-in MRP, but uses the hull instead of a separate health pool.
Let's be real. One of the T-10's greatest flaws is shared with several other ships. The FDS, FAS, FGS, T9, T7, etc, all have a severe weakness. Ram them once and their shields are gone. Shoot them with an emissive laser and spam seekers and they are finished. They modules get obliterated, and some of them, despite having very high hull stats (15k+ MJ effective for T10), still don't compete with pipped shield and bank stacks (50-80k MJ effective Cutter). Clearly, there's a strong imbalance between hull/modules and shield stacking. If you want to really help the T10, do something that help both it and all others that suffer the same imbalance.
Also, it's top speed is just rediculous. I could understand slow acceleration and rotations, but ships shouldn't be slow like that. I'd gladly give up some G's for some m/s's.
For example, hull hardness: A mechanic that reduces hull damage from small weapons. Alternative: Reduces penetration damage, raising the effective integrity of a ships modules, and given higher affinity towards ships designed with a focus on hull strength, as in, somewhat opposite to a ship's shield multiplier (not just a higher value because size and cost). Acts like a built-in MRP, but uses the hull instead of a separate health pool.
Let's be real. One of the T-10's greatest flaws is shared with several other ships. The FDS, FAS, FGS, T9, T7, etc, all have a severe weakness. Ram them once and their shields are gone. Shoot them with an emissive laser and spam seekers and they are finished. They modules get obliterated, and some of them, despite having very high hull stats (15k+ MJ effective for T10), still don't compete with pipped shield and bank stacks (50-80k MJ effective Cutter). Clearly, there's a strong imbalance between hull/modules and shield stacking. If you want to really help the T10, do something that help both it and all others that suffer the same imbalance.
Also, it's top speed is just rediculous. I could understand slow acceleration and rotations, but ships shouldn't be slow like that. I'd gladly give up some G's for some m/s's.
I didn't even consider ramming. Ha. I have a lot to learn. How much damage does ramming do? Is it based on the mass of the ship and the speed of the impact?
Yes and yes. How much exactly? Don't know. Nobody has ever tested it and posted results, but from personal experience, hitting someone at full speed in a Clipper is probably worth about 12 large plasma shots.
I know the Type 10's shields are not exactly the best around, but I've been rammed more times than I can count by NPC Anacondas, FDLs and a variety of other NPC ships, and the shields on my Type 10 hardly quivered. I really don't understand why so many people think it's easy to ram a Type 10's shields away. Shield strength on my Type 10 in combat mode is around 2400 with 74 percent resistance to explosive, 69 percent resistance to kinetic and 38 percent resistance to thermal. It's nothing to write home about and yet I don't seem to have any problems with being rammed. Is there some kind of trick to ramming that knocks out shields but the NPCs don't avail themselves of the trick?
Resistances mean nothing, ramming is Absolute damage. It is objectively the weakest total shields of the big 4 combat ships. Still pretty beefy combared to everything else though.
And yes NPCs dont commit to the ram at all, they usually just end up doing it because they are programmed to boost around you qnd when your in a Mamba that tends to not go all that well for them.
I regularlly ram NPCs with various ships and despite having 3000+ shields I can loose a few rings depending on what Im ramming.
I think the real problem that the Type 10 faces is that armor does not seem to be handled properly in this game. Nearly all of the internal modules should be mostly safe from attack until the armor is severely damaged. Only external modules like the thrusters, etc, should be able to be directly damaged once the shields are down. What seems to be actually happening is that a ship's armor is treated as little more than a separate bag of hit points with very little relation to the actual purpose it should have been meant for....protecting the internal contents of the ship. If I were given a chance to code how this would actually be done, most weapons would not be able to touch most of the internals and instead have to deal their damage, mitigated by the armor's hardness to the hull first. This would change as the hull drops in hit points, reflecting the fact that big holes are now open in the armor. The weapons that are specifically classed as armor piercing would be reduced in terms of the amount of damage delivered to an internal module, by the amount of armor they would first have to penetrate and destroy. This would be a combination of a percentage based on how much armor is actually left and by the actual hardness of the armor (which by the way should be easier for an armor penetrating weapon to deal with, than a normal weapon). They would then carry on to do the rest of their damage to whatever system was being targeted. Right now, as it appears, once shields are down, systems that can be targeted can be shot out. In my version, by the way, external modules like the thrusters, would be exempt from this protection. I really would like to see armor more accurately handled. Right now, I have engineered military composite on my Type 10. With the current system, all that seems to afford me is simply a big bag of hit points that appear to be completely bypassable.
I think the real problem with the Type 10 is I can’t decide which beautiful Turret weapons to put on the thing. 4 Large multis and 3 medium beams? Maybe break from my norm and use Large cannons and pack hounds? Missiles, rails, or corrosives MC on the small hard points? Decisions!
I like having 4 big burst lasers on my Type 10. They are engineered for long range and it's always fun to slap something out past 5km and watch their shields take a hit.
Fun trick with the t10, downgrade the shields to class 7 bi-weaves and toss in a 8A god bank SCB. Fun to flex two rings per cast and you don't lose much in overall strength (if anything you gain strength pretty much getting 5 free health bars)
Agree on C8 PD, but not on the C8 optional. C8 SCB is gold. C8 PD would allow for so much more flexibility and breath a lot of life into my beloved T10.
Lol, no.
Lol, no.
Yes, replacing the optional 8 with an 8 distro would be a massive nerf. Massive.
