[Video] Analyzing Engineering - What is it really?!

[777Driver]

try fighting an elite cutter/corvette/conda npc in an un engineered viper 3 then ask me again

Lol, do you think we haven't done that? How long have you been playing Elite? This is exactly my point, Engineers gives you a massive advantage, fair enough, I don't blame cmdrs for wanting that advantage, however it is not mandatory. Before engineers it was about A rating and then using tactics, now it is about G5 with specials and farming.

Am not judging engineers, I enjoy using them, but quit with the whole 'They are not optional' You are using them because it easier than learning how to fight effectively with an A-Rated stock build.

As mentioned, PvP is a whole different story.

 

[xRebel-Scumx]

I guess I should just stand aside in awe of your awesomeness

 

[777Driver]

I guess I should just stand aside in awe of your awesomeness

Dude I don't even engage much in combat anymore, engineers ruined the combat side of things for me. If I had it my way, engineering would only be for stuff like jump range/thrusters,heat sink ammo etc.

All I'm saying is it gives a clear advantage, too much in my opinion in PvE. Is great for farming NPC's tho, but where is the challenge in that?

 

[Sole Hunter]

Engineers ruined this game, period.

They still can't get them right 2 years after release.

Pathetic.

 

[xRebel-Scumx]

Dude I don't even engage much in combat anymore, engineers ruined the combat side of things for me. If I had it my way, engineering would only be for stuff like jump range/thrusters,heat sink ammo etc.

All I'm saying is it gives a clear advantage, too much in my opinion in PvE.

I agree 100% but seriously, fighting the current npc ai with a standard a rated eagle/viper wont end well...even *if* you manage to get through the cell bank spam sniping the powerplant is kinda broken all this combined with the turrets and slf I bet you simply take too many hits to finish the fight

 

[777Driver]

I agree 100% but seriously, fighting the current npc ai with a standard a rated eagle/viper wont end well...even *if* you manage to get through the cell bank spam sniping the powerplant is kinda broken all this combined with the turrets and slf I bet you simply take too many hits to finish the fight

I agree the cell banks are an issue. It is all a mess tbh, hence why I retired and live a quiet life as a miner and trucker. Even then, I can pick up an assassination missions in my shieldless freighter whilst on a trade run, wipe out a Corvette with Cascades and deepcuts, just feels hollow IMO.

As far as surviving PvP, I love engineers, before they came along I didn't stand a chance in a freighter or a small ship.

 

[n34257]

Engineers ruined this game, period.

They still can't get them right 2 years after release.

Pathetic.

It's because they're allergic to removing poorly-performing features from the game. The only reason that Engineers introduced imbalance into the game in the first place was that they included the special effects on weapons. As soon as people figured out that the new meta was heat, everything became about that. So they tried to rebalance the heat problem (two or three times), by adding more stuff and limiting the effect. Then it became all about the shield-breakers, so they tried introducing more stuff to combat that etc etc...

All they needed to do was remove the special effects, and that would've fixed all the balance issues right away. At least...the balance wouldn't have been any worse than it was before Engineers. The only remaining issue would've been the shield booster problem (ie shield strength increased by an order of magnitude over the possible weapon DPS increases), but that would've easily been fixed by the diminishing-returns shield booster algorithm that they should have implemented when it was first suggested, instead of putting the shield-breakers in.

The core of the problem is...they don't like fixing stuff, but they really like piling more stuff on. Throw enough brown stuff at a wall, and eventually...you might have a patch where some of it stuck.

 

[Spacecat]

All they needed to do was remove the special effects, and that would've fixed all the balance issues right away.

This would help anyway.

 

[Spacecat]

And, ultimately, completely optional.

Not in open. A max engineered pvp ship will take down a PVE grd 5 non combat focused build shockingly fast. Even if all you do is high wake, you need to be on the ball, especially if there are more than one of them.

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

RebelScum, we are on the same page. I believe the engineers was a corporate ploy intended to capitalize by exploiting people who cannot live without every possible advantage. It worked a little too well and now Frankensteins monster has become too hard to control. Frankengineers.

 

[Zhark]

All they needed to do was remove the special effects, and that would've fixed all the balance issues right away. At least...the balance wouldn't have been any worse than it was before Engineers. The only remaining issue would've been the shield booster problem (ie shield strength increased by an order of magnitude over the possible weapon DPS increases), but that would've easily been fixed by the diminishing-returns shield booster algorithm that they should have implemented when it was first suggested, instead of putting the shield-breakers in.

The core of the problem is...they don't like fixing stuff, but they really like piling more stuff on. Throw enough brown stuff at a wall, and eventually...you might have a patch where some of it stuck.

To remove is to acknowledge failure. (CQC, Multicrew, PP, etc etc etc)

 

[Hacker#451563]

Yamiks defined:

- Swears like a teenage boy

- Likes to talk about sticking religious items in people's butts

- His videos are long whining rants which pretty much insult everyone

I'll pass.

And this Brave New World of sterile humor and forced PC everything a character like The Yamiks is a breath of fresh (rotting corpse scented) air in my opinion.

I can see his stuffs not for everyone but each to their own and all that ól chap.


Anyway, Engineers...

I was perfectly Ok without them but now they're here I always have an urge to upgrade the hell out of everything I can so I end up falling into the grind-trap without even realizing it.

Because of this I've had to really try to avoid lvl 5 upgrades, unless I just happen to have a load of the required mats because I just refuse to actively participate in a grind-fest just to get an extra 2% or something from a single module on a single ship (out of the 5 I currently own).
The lvl 4 and below mats are collectable through most regular activities with a little bit of forethought.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Is this Braben's original vision? We wont ever know unless he tells us.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/

Read that, look at the pictures, watch the videos

 

[Jex =TE=]

Engineers ruined this game, period.

They still can't get them right 2 years after release.

Pathetic.

An Analogy fitting the disaster called ENG's would be like you had a task to paint a wall but you got you mum to do it for you as you sat and watched JK in the morning.

 

[Aashenfox]

I really believe that if engineers were removed there would be a mass exodus from the game.

We don't have any other attributes or traits that can be minmaxed for a purpose, so engineering is needed, or something else to replace it. Would you guys prefer character classes and skill trees?

Its like brexit, it's fashionable to hate engineers (like it's fashionable to be bigoted at the moment), so half the playerbase would vote to get rid of it and then the next day realise what they've done. At least I find it unlikely that FD would change the way the game works for a 51% majority. That would be insane.

 

[Maolagin]

Because of this I've had to really try to avoid lvl 5 upgrades, unless I just happen to have a load of the required mats because I just refuse to actively participate in a grind-fest just to get an extra 2% or something from a single module on a single ship (out of the 5 I currently own).
The lvl 4 and below mats are collectable through most regular activities with a little bit of forethought.

I think this is an important point. Engineering does have sharply diminishing return on effort. For most upgrades the jump from G1 to G2 is about the same benefit as G4 to G5, but if you're maxxing out a module 90+% of the grind is for high level mats needed for G5 rolls. With the exception of my G5 long range FSDs I haven't bothered to engineer anything past G4 and I don't feel massively disadvantaged.

 

[Jenner]

We don't have any other attributes or traits that can be minmaxed for a purpose, so engineering is needed, or something else to replace it. Would you guys prefer character classes and skill trees?

I think that's a false choice. We already had many ways to customize and outfit with just ships and modules, with credits being the limiting factor.

Everything else should be skill based.

There really isn't a need for Engineering. It's a solution in search of a problem.

 

[Aashenfox]

I think that's a false choice. We already had many ways to customize and outfit with just ships and modules, with credits being the limiting factor.

Everything else should be skill based.

There really isn't a need for Engineering. It's a solution in search of a problem.

I see it as a fundamental in this kind of open world rpg type game, nee mmo.

Outfitting options were very weak before, at least now you can specialise more. I guess we are polar opposites on this and that's fine.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

I see it as a fundamental in this kind of open world rpg type game, nee mmo.

Outfitting options were very weak before, at least now you can specialise more. I guess we are polar opposites on this and that's fine.

I'd never heard of min maxing before someone, I think it was you Ashenfox, told me about it a few months ago. I don't play MMOs or RPGs (well not since I was kid), I have enjoyed Lord of the Rings and other such Fantasy genres but my passion is SciFi. I have played Elite since 84 and ED since the start. For a long time there were no Wizards, no quests, no nonsense. I loved that there was no complexity with modules or ammunition, something that made me drop Eve, that turns the game into a spreadsheet simulator. I loved that key differentiator between pilots was simple skill. I loved that ships all had their niche.

The Wizards destroyed all that, and I have a right to feel upset about it. However, I carry on by ignoring them.

I think that's a false choice. We already had many ways to customize and outfit with just ships and modules, with credits being the limiting factor.

Everything else should be skill based.

There really isn't a need for Engineering. It's a solution in search of a problem.

IMHO, they were trying to solve two problems. 1, that there wasn't much to do, and 2, that of some of us had huge bank balances. So instead of introducing fiscal measures, which are bit hard, they turned their engineers into Wizards offering quests. A concept that seems to become a panacea to every little problem they encounter... I wonder what happens when the coffee machine runs out it in FD towers?