VR support 'not at launch' for Odyssey

[[VR] Mad Mike]

the point of the clip is not about the players death its about how vr can do thing that cannot be recreated by a player that is playing with just a keyboard and a monitor. how is it fair that a player can drop 400+ for a vr set and have an advantage over a player that does not have a vr set?
there is a reason why vr and montor play has been seperated when it comes to multiplayer. say you playing a sword and shield pvp game a vr player can attack and block in wild and unpedictable angles. as were a keyboard and mouse player will can only attack and block at programmed angles, is it fair to the moniter player to put him up against the vr player who can easly strike at and angle that the monitor players programed block cant block?

In which case kB/ m needs to be banned it is so unfair compared to pad gamers And time to drop 3 screens as well because it's such a cheat. And we already know how ignorant you are about Elite dangerous when you accused players of cheating using ED head tracker.

I do agree in some cases VR gives an advantage. But in others KB/M gives a far bigger one. The way I play FPS games I am limited to aiming as well as I aim in real life and turning as quick as inturn in real life. You on a mouse will be faster and more accurate than I can ever hope to be... Also i will be exhausted very quickly if I have to crouch and stand myself ... Chances are I will drop in and out of cover far slower than you will and all that is only IF FD do proper full room vr on foot which seems highly unlikely at this point

All that said I would happily promise never to venture into your precious balanced Open in favour of VR. If you know anything about ED (debatable going on your posts) you will know already high resolution screenshots are not allowed in open as it could theoretically be used as a cheat due to it causing hiccups when taking a shot.... So I would absolutely accept VR on foot (or in general) not being allowed in open because PvPers are afraid of being matched against a VR player.

 

[Darkeyed]

In which case kB/ m needs to be banned it is so unfair compared to pad gamers And time to drop 3 screens as well because it's such a cheat. And we already know how ignorant you are about Elite dangerous when you accused players of cheating using ED head tracker.

how about you just unplug your pad.... its a optional tool. let me ask you do you turn on your pc with your gamepad? no? how about signing on to your pc use the game pad for that? still no? hmm its almost like the primary input for a pc is keyboard and mouse and everyone has a keyboard and mouse. how can it be and advantage if every one has it? hmm go on I will wait.

game pads are both and optional to and better than keyboards in other game although some games to try to help gamepad users out by adding things like aim assist. but again the gamepad its optional tool for the pc.

the vr is a optional tool not many players have it so please explain to the class why players should be giving massive advatages in a FPS PvP just because they shelled out 400+ for an optional tool.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

And what about 3 screens? I also take it you are dead against console cross play? Not in ED right now but its coming in many games.
And you still ignored all the disadvantages of VR as well as the ability just to not play in open of it is so important.
VR has been an official supported device in ED since early 2014. To demand it is unfair and must be dropped now is so bloody selfish it's unreal. If FD CANT support VR because they don't have the ability is poor but that is 1 thing but to demand it is dropped because you bought a VR supported game and don't like others in VR is something different entirely.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Eveyone has a PC or Console and the capability to play the game. Not everyone has VR set up. You can still play the game like us non-VR plebs.

I could if I chose to, unfortunately Mrs Teatime doesn't have that option.

I also had no idea that the ancient roman (slave owning) free men, middle classes had survived 2,300 years to resurface as an Elite Dangerous player group, but I'll pass if you don't mind. We could share a bag of otter's noses or some tasty wren's livers instead?

 

[Darkeyed]

And what about 3 screens? I also take it you are dead against console cross play? Not in ED right now but its coming in many games.
And you still ignored all the disadvantages of VR as well as the ability just to not play in open of it is so important.
VR has been an official supported device in ED since early 2014. To demand it is unfair and must be dropped now is so bloody selfish it's unreal. If FD CANT support VR because they don't have the ability is poor but that is 1 thing but to demand it is dropped because you bought a VR supported game and don't like others in VR is something different entirely.

when it comes to pvp yes i am against cross console play it's boring to watch and unfair to the console players and unfair to the pc players that get them stuck on their team. if i wanted to watch a team get pasted against the wall i would watch a lions game.

edit btw when it comes to fps most pro fps players dont use 3 screens it does not give you as big advantage as you would think at least when it come to pvp top fps players do not use 3 screens at most they will have 2 and thats for twitch streaming the main screen for the game and the second to hold chat..

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

see now your comparing a flight sim set up which is a far cry from and fps set up. when it comes to fps does better equipment help kinda when your playing someone of equal skill as you then yea the tippy top can win or loose a match on having a bad mouse but the majorty of the player base skill trumps skill, the person with the faster reflex time, more accurate flick etc etc. they are what determains the match. if you give a grandmaster a 10 buck walmart mouse and keyboard he will still kick in the teath of gold tier players. its only in grandmaster vs grandmaster that the gear truly matters. my buddy plays on a 4k rig cost him a pretty penny. I play on a tv moniter and i still trounce him in rainbow six..

Thanks, as this proves my point that good gear whilst it can help doesn't take into account player skill.

The clip you showed demonstrated a player with a low skill level committing suicide by running into a corridor/archway with gunmen on the other side. Whether the player who shot him, blind fired in VR or sat back a bit aimed at the corner is irrelevant.

I also see you are tunnel visioned into thinking Odyssey is going to be an arena based PVP FPS (John Carmack has much to answer for). How have you come to that conclusion? Also why will we be shooting at other players in Odyssey in the first place?

 

[Arioch]

hey look a I showed you a lovely video were people are blind firing. its almost like just because you have not personally experience it doesnt not mean it does not exist.
but blind firings is not the issue issues which you keep refusing to address because you know you cant its that vr players can blind fire and montier players would not be able to. ie the vr players can do things that montier players cannot do. which is the problem with VR vs Moniter PVP.

Well, looks like you got me! (even though I could say I was hoist by my own petard by admitting I saw myself in-game doing a bit of blind-firing), best everyone ignores my anecdotal posts

I have been trying to address your concerns (seeing as I have been playing flatscreen shooters since, well, they were first made, and VR shooters for the past 3 years, so I was hoping I might be a better source of information than a LoL Wut? YouTube video) but it appears you’re not happy with my answers.

Perhaps this is the time for FDev to forge new (-ish) ground and enable corner blind-fire in a flatscreen shooter game - it was so amazingly effective in Jurassic Park: Trespasser over twenty years ago I am totes amazed that it has never featured in a shooter since (to the best of my knowledge)?

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to write my Open Letter (I’ve done SteamStats, so why not?):

Dear FDev,
it has come to my attention that VR players may have, in a very specific instance, a slight advantage over flatscreen players (if they are lucky). I would therefore like to withdraw my wish for VR implementation in the upcoming Odyssey expan...hold on a minute - could you just put in blind-fire around cover for everyone? You could have hand controls like Jurassic Park: Trespasser, and that was proper ace! Any chance you could hire Minnie Driver’s left nork for the health bar as well?
Yours, etc. etc.

 

[amigacooke]

All that said I would happily promise never to venture into your precious balanced Open in favour of VR. If you know anything about ED (debatable going on your posts) you will know already high resolution screenshots are not allowed in open as it could theoretically be used as a cheat due to it causing hiccups when taking a shot.... So I would absolutely accept VR on foot (or in general) not being allowed in open because PvPers are afraid of being matched against a VR player.

But surely there are so few VR players it hardly matters anyway?

The expensive solution: Git VR
The cheap solution: Git running/hiding/organised

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

because for those in non vr that feat could not be achived to be able to shoot around the corne

LOL you're perfectly right ! VR is more realistic and that's a typical scenario that you would find in reality so I don't see why a new and more accurate technology should be hold back.

 

[Darkeyed]

I have been trying to address your concerns (seeing as I have been playing flatscreen shooters since, well, they were first made,

same here

so I was hoping I might be a better source of information than a LoL Wut? YouTube video)

which shows the very dang thing you claim you have never seen. again i have never seen a cheater in cs-go you don't see me going around and saying NOBODY cheats in cs-go.

it has come to my attention that VR players may have, in a very specific instance, a slight advantage over flatscreen players (if they are lucky).

haha dont you think your clever. im not saying that in elite dangerous vr players have and advantage im saying that in FPS vr and flat screen are not compatible and if you forced them to fight each the VR player would have a massive advantage. its the elephant in the room you don't want to address you want to talk about skyrim and rpgs and well when you fight against other VR in "pavlov this trick would not help me", oi sherlock your not facing flat screen players in pavlov just other vr users. this trick would be massively effective against flat screen players though. thats the problem vr lets you do actions that you cannot do with a mouse and keyboard and a flat monitor which mean competitively its unfair.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Even if that was an issue I suspect there are many other ways for them to accurately estimate the number of VR users. The simplest one is probably to extrapolate from Steam VR data when launching Elite.

I hope so, as well as tracking somehow the Oculus users, who don't fire up Steam VR, but account for another 3.3 million headsets outside of the Steam registered hardware (not assuming of course that they all have Elite Dangerous).
I've seen a lot of companies over the years make terrible assumptions through bad data or lack of due diligence, that have cost them directly, or just not fulfil their potential.

 

[Stigbob]

That's not really accurate. Rift S or quest with usb cable from oculus can play practically everything for PCVR.
Things are a little less clear once you go for a non oculus headset. They can play everything officially that isn't locked to oculus store. They can still play those as well however using a piece of software called ReVive which is a free download and integrates into steam really well .. but I grant you that is not ideal (and is what I am facing as I replace my rift for a Reverb G2)
All companies are supporting a new platform called openXR which will hopefully end any fear of fragmentation.
As for some on their 5th headset. They are a minority. But that said my 3rd headset is on preorder. That is since 2014 however. You don't HAVE to upgrade all the time it is like some upgrade their gpu every time a new one comes out others wait for significant update. I sit in the middle.

If all companies are supporting openXR then it would seem I was right to think companies are waiting for exactly the standardisation I was talking about. If that's on the horizon the outdated software and equipment is currently a bad bet.

Just did a spot of goolging openXR had a microsoft and occulus approved launch yesterday, this may be the reason EDO is launching VR free. No point doing it the hard way when an easier solution is currently going live.

I'd cancel that pre-order, there might be something far better along soon.

 

[Arioch]

...which shows the very dang thing you claim you have never seen. again i have never seen a cheater in cs-go you don't see me going around and saying NOBODY cheats in cs-go.


haha dont you think your clever. im not saying that in elite dangerous vr players have and advantage im saying that in FPS vr and flat screen are not compatible and if you forced them to fight each the VR player would have a massive advantage. its the elephant in the room you don't want to address you want to talk about skyrim and rpgs and well when you fight against other VR in "pavlov this trick would not help me", oi sherlock your not facing flat screen players in pavlov just other vr users. this trick would be massively effective against flat screen players though. thats the problem vr lets you do actions that you cannot do with a mouse and keyboard and a flat monitor which mean competitively its unfair.

In-game. In-game. I thought I’d specified that a few times by now (and thought it was obvious the first time I mentioned it, but obviously your mileage varied), but hey, I’m now claiming I have seen one person doing it in-game...me!

So this elephant in the room I’m apparently not addressing by apparently talking about it - the point-blank round-the-corner victim - if...

this trick would be massively effective

...then why am I not seeing it widely used? Even in that YouTube video there doesn’t seem to be anyone else doing it apart from in that one instance.
Surely it wouldn’t matter if the point-blank round-the-corner victim was flatscreen or VR? I’m surprised that such a massively effective trick hasn’t been implemented in at least one FPS over the past couple of decades, I mean, Gears Of War made it pretty popular for the third-person genre...I wonder why it never made the leap to first-person...is it because that not being able to see your target is not massively effective?

If you want another example of stuff VR shooters can do that flatscreen can’t - I can dual-wield in opposite directions! Can’t hit stuff all, mind, but I’m sure it looks impressive Two elephants now! I might even stand a chance of hitting them in VR as they’d be in the same room!

ps. I’m now a brain-damaged, cave dwelling Victorian sleuth? Conjures up quite the mental image, cheers!

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

You'd also need to add oculus clients to that as well, as in those that run their oculus headset and elite through the oculus store entirely independent of steam VR.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

I'd cancel that pre-order, there might be something far better along soon.

Did a 5 secs googling myself and it looks as if it is API only so hardware agnostic. And you can always wait for something better to come along

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

If all companies are supporting openXR then it would seem I was right to think companies are waiting for exactly the standardisation I was talking about. If that's on the horizon the outdated software and equipment is currently a bad bet.

Just did a spot of goolging openXR had a microsoft and occulus approved launch yesterday, this may be the reason EDO is launching VR free. No point doing it the hard way when an easier solution is currently going live.

I'd cancel that pre-order, there might be something far better along soon.

From what I can gather, nearly all consumer based VR solutions can use Steam VR, including oculus rift headsets and WMR headsets..

I have a Pimax 5k+ which works perfectly fine with nearly all games on steam VR including Elite Dangerous. No game modifications were needed.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If all companies are supporting openXR then it would seem I was right to think companies are waiting for exactly the standardisation I was talking about. If that's on the horizon the outdated software and equipment is currently a bad bet.

Just did a spot of goolging openXR had a microsoft and occulus approved launch yesterday, this may be the reason EDO is launching VR free. No point doing it the hard way when an easier solution is currently going live.

I'd cancel that pre-order, there might be something far better along soon.

Open XR is a software platform all the existing hardware will support it and it has been available for over 6 months for developers to work on. There will always be something better down the road you can wait for ever. However you look at it FD have supported VR since 2014. Perhaps VR support on foot is a different proposition but that is still not a reason to not support VR in all vehicle parts of the game,.
But either way, open XR is available now on oculus, steam and windows so am not seeing how that is a reason to NOT support in a game not due out for 6 months or more.

 

[Stigbob]

Did a 5 secs googling myself and it looks as if it is API only so hardware agnostic. And you can always wait for something better to come along

Yes that was my point. Not sure how you missed it to be honest.

From what I can gather, nearly all consumer based VR solutions can use Steam VR, including oculus rift headsets and WMR headsets..

I have a Pimax 5k+ which works perfectly fine with nearly all games on steam VR including Elite Dangerous. No game modifications were needed.

Given yesterdays launch of openXR time will tell which are VHS and which are betamax. Once the dust settles gamers and dev companies will probably show more than niche interest.

For now it's too early to tell.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Yes that was my point. Not sure how you missed it to be honest.



Given yesterdays launch of openXR time will tell which are VHS and which are betamax. Once the dust settles gamers and dev companies will probably show more than niche interest.

For now it's too early to tell.

But there isn't a betamax or VHS scenario that is what you are not getting.

This is more like oled Vs qled Vs nanocell ... Which ever you prefer it's not like you can't watch media on all of them even if ultimately one of the formats die.

Betamax users.were screwed when their format died just like hddvd. That is not the case here. Oculus could shut up shop tomorrow and I could still use my headset on steam

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes that was my point. Not sure how you missed it to be honest.



Given yesterdays launch of openXR time will tell which are VHS and which are betamax. Once the dust settles gamers and dev companies will probably show more than niche interest.

For now it's too early to tell.

There is no betamax or VHS situation.