Well that sucked the wind out of my sails

[Mxpower76]

This (and other reasons) is why I don't bother with any of this.

Same here. I don't pay any attention to the BGS or Power play stuff. I guess its dumb luck that the system I picked as home is uncontrolled. And I think most of the systems I work around are mostly uncontrolled.

But since I play PG/solo I make an effort not to do anything in a player group system. That's really the only time I pay attention to the BGS.

 

[Urbanski101]

I did try early on to influence my adopted home system by playing the BGS, it was a slow process as I didn't 100% know the best way to influence the system depending on status etc, but I was making a difference.

Then FD dropped a player faction with a stupid name into that system and that was the end of that.

The BGS...it's sort of a nonsense anyway grinding away for a cookie cutter RNG faction that doesn't recognise you or your efforts, filling buckets, conflicting system status that rotate endlessly and without much logic, some people love it though.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Thanks for the replies everyone, in particular Darkfyre99 for a really helpful explanation & lore justification. It seems I'm raging against The Man not the machine, which helps me to understand the undesirable situation I find myself in.

I don't want to frustrate a bunch of other players by my actions, this conflict of interest has come about from my ignorance & assumptions about a part of the game I thought I could ignore, but really I've found a previously hidden depth to the game where actions have consequences.

I suppose I have a couple of options:

Find a new home system away from the Power Play arena, or
Pledge to Hudson so I can do some or all of the fortification work to help justify my changes.

What do you think I should do? Do I have any other options that won't frustrate other players?

First, you're welcome.

And second, unless you're willing to find some backwater far from the core systems with zero traffic, you literally can't play this game without unknowingly frustrating somebody with your actions. You affect the BGS with every choice you make. The main difference between BGS players and non-BGS players is that the results of our actions are deliberate, as opposed to accidental. And accidental results can frustrate players just as much as deliberate ones.

Personally, I'd say don't worry about frustrating other players, because you'll do that regardless. Wherever you go, you're going to be playing in someones back yard. Instead, decide if remaining in place will frustrate you. You now know that the system you've been manipulating is being monitored by at least one BGS Power Player. That's valuable information right there. What you do with that information is up to you.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Just pick another system within the control sphere and flip that to a faction that is appropriate to Hudson's ethos. The smaller the better.

If you want to PM me the system you're operating in, I can help you find an appropriate one.

It wouldn't take too long, and I'm sure the Hudson PP group would appreciate the gesture and leave you to your own devices (until your faction goes into expansion).

 

[Riverside]

Just pick another system within the control sphere and flip that to a faction that is appropriate to Hudson's ethos. The smaller the better.

If you want to PM me the system you're operating in, I can help you find an appropriate one.

It wouldn't take too long, and I'm sure the Hudson PP group would appreciate the gesture and leave you to your own devices (until your faction goes into expansion).

I like the idea of this for tat approach. My system isn't particularly valuable to Hudson as far as I know, although it's not me that has the important opinion on that of course.

I'll PM you the name of the System, any suggestions on a diplomatic solution are welcome.

Daykfyre, I appreciate what you are saying about always frustrating someone, but I don't want to do it knowingly to players I'm not trying to compete with

 

[Tarman]

I like the idea of this for tat approach. My system isn't particularly valuable to Hudson as far as I know, although it's not me that has the important opinion on that of course.

I'll PM you the name of the System, any suggestions on a diplomatic solution are welcome.

Daykfyre, I appreciate what you are saying about always frustrating someone, but I don't want to do it knowingly to players I'm not trying to compete with

This type of consequence and diplomacy is an interesting layer of the game. The friction itself is playable in a number of different ways but it's nice that it can exist, imo. Human dynamics makes for unpredictable and yet highly-predictable gameplay.

 

[krylite]

IMO, seeing the Ethos of Hudson and Winters really helped solidify my impression that the Federation is rotten at its core. But then again, there isn't a single Power who favors democratic governments. Its a good thing that, as members of the of the three major Superpowers (sorry Alliance) we're part of the hyperclass of the Elite universe. Even a lowly Sidewinder pilot has access to more wealth than 99.9% of the population of the galaxy.



Because Hudson's personality is a rather heavy handed "do as I say, or there will be consequences" approach to influencing people, and the Feudal and Patronage governments respond best to that. They operate on the idea that "it is natural and right that the people are the servants to their masters," after all. Winters, on the other hand, tends to bribe people to get them to do what they want.

One of the problems Federation Power Players have is that many players perceive the Federation as the Democratic "good guy" to the Empire's "bad guy," and those interested in manipulating the BGS tend to put Democratic or Corporate factions into power. This effectively doubles the fortification costs of both Winters and Hudson, since neither of those Powers represent either of those ideals.

Interesting thoughts about the ethos of the powers. I'd agree that powers who are "strong against"(supported by) feudal could be seen as "corrupted" or in favor of "heavy handnesses" or elitism noblesse. That the Hudson power-control ethos supports feudalism primarily, I'd agree doesn't look very egalitarian or democratic. Winters is different where it's strong against corporate governments, but that could just be the corporatism/banking wealth transferring elitism we see in today's world, in effect, yes bribery, lol.

As for powers that support democracies, well the closest if not quite there, could be Aisling (and Archon). Aisling seems more charitable within the empire with supporting cooperatives and communes, and also deviates greatly from the rest of the empire with outlawing of drugs & slavery. But then there's also the special aspect of Aisling in supporting confederacies, a variation of democracy perhaps like today's Switzerland or Canada. Not to be upstaged, the pp federation factions with help from dictator Grom (obviating, imo the farce that was "ZYADA") staged the campaign "Operation: Shattered Prism" last year which "liberated" several control systems where confederations had happily found refuge and solace from oppressive centralized federal control in then Aisling space so that now, unfortunately there are only a handful of confederacy factions in Aisling territory today. It could also be reasoned that communes and cooperatives are possible in Aisling supported space with enough infrastructure and resources to support those socialized states with 34th century technology & the freedom of space, as opposed to being impossible in pure practice today on Earth. (side note: Archon also supports confederacies, no doubt welcoming them in the slime of a criminal state of piracy, contraband, bribery, etc. as a way of life in Delaine space. )

 

[Threeofseven]

Currently some Imperial factions actually help Hudson more than Federal factions.. short sighted design that is hopefully fixed in the upcoming powerplay changes.

 

[Riverside]

I spoke to one of the Hudson Admins & they were very accommodating & sympathetic towards the situation, but inevitably the system is more useful to them than to me. I have a safe haven in a nearby system that is uncontrolled (and of no interest to Hudson) so I've agreed to refocus my efforts there & let my old home base of the last 3.5 years be returned to Feudal control by them.

Thanks to the100thmonkey for a few suggestions that help me to make my decision. The Hudson Admin offered to put my preferred faction in charge in this second system but:

A) I don't want any of their team to feel I owe them a solid regardless of how those in charge feel, and
B) Where's the fun (or sense of achievement) in having it done for you?

I flipped my old system because I thought no one else had an interest, turns out someone did. I still think it's pretty stupid that Hudson wouldn't prefer a Fed aligned, high security Corporate state to a medium security independent Feudal faction, but this experience has helped me to at least see that there is more to Power Play than just something for PvPers to do, and that there are still activities that can be done in Solo or a group that would benefit (or harm) a power even if the actual fortification ends up being Open only.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Sounds like a challenge to me. Good stuff.

What, everything should be just straight street and nice numbers grinding?

Good thing it isn't.

 

[Threeofseven]

I spoke to one of the Hudson Admins & they were very accommodating & sympathetic towards the situation, but inevitably the system is more useful to them than to me. I have a safe haven in a nearby system that is uncontrolled (and of no interest to Hudson) so I've agreed to refocus my efforts there & let my old home base of the last 3.5 years be returned to Feudal control by them.

Thanks to the100thmonkey for a few suggestions that help me to make my decision. The Hudson Admin offered to put my preferred faction in charge in this second system but:

A) I don't want any of their team to feel I owe them a solid regardless of how those in charge feel, and
B) Where's the fun (or sense of achievement) in having it done for you?

I flipped my old system because I thought no one else had an interest, turns out someone did. I still think it's pretty stupid that Hudson wouldn't prefer a Fed aligned, high security Corporate state to a medium security independent Feudal faction, but this experience has helped me to at least see that there is more to Power Play than just something for PvPers to do, and that there are still activities that can be done in Solo or a group that would benefit (or harm) a power even if the actual fortification ends up being Open only.

Honestly, I think this will be fixed in the power play update. In the meantime power-play is such a broken and useless mechanic that I would just do what you want, and don't worry about how it effects the power. Hauling forts is like trying to fill a bucket up with water that has a 3 inch hole in it.

If Hudson doesn't want a Fed aligned power then he doesn't deserve to be president. Defend your faction I say. Something similar happened to me in my home system. other Power Players removed the faction that I supported and caused a "power friendly" faction to take control. I immediately put my faction back in power and declared that it shall remain in control regardless if it's one of our preferred government types or not. That was last year and my faction is still the controlling faction.

 

[Riverside]

Honestly, I think this will be fixed in the power play update. In the meantime power-play is such a broken and useless mechanic that I would just do what you want, and don't worry about how it effects the power. Hauling forts is like trying to fill a bucket up with water that has a 3 inch hole in it.

If Hudson doesn't want a Fed aligned power then he doesn't deserve to be president. Defend your faction I say. Something similar happened to me in my home system. other Power Players removed the faction that I supported and caused a "power friendly" faction to take control. I immediately put my faction back in power and declared that it shall remain in control regardless if it's one of our preferred government types or not. That was last year and my faction is still the controlling faction.

Good on you for sticking to your guns

I wouldn't wish more Power Play activity than strictly necessary on anyone.

 

[ajcardiac]

This leads to BGS Federal guys not getting along well with the PP people.

How so?
The reason we do BGS is for the benefit of PowerPlay.

 

[ajcardiac]

sounds like hudson is the real problem. seems like a tyrant to me.

Really? Then why would I have even bothered looking the OP up to discuss the situation?

A tyrant would have just stomped on him.

 

[ajcardiac]

But apparently putting a Fed aligned faction in control of a system in Hudson space is a problem, because it's more efficient to fortify Feudal factions than one that is aligned to the same superpower as the controlling (or exploiting in this case) power.

This doesn't seem right.

While Fedual and Patronage government types make sense because of Zachary Hudson's Republican combat-oriented Ethos, it has never made sense to us that neither government type can be Federation-aligned. This is the hand we were dealt with by FDev. We are certainly hopeful that the proposed Ethos changes to PowerPlay are implemented and that all Powers will be strong against any Minor Faction that is aligned to that SuperPower.

 

[Riverside]

How so?
The reason we do BGS is for the benefit of PowerPlay.

Glad to see you joining in the conversation, it was good to meet you last night

 

[Azreh Helas]

Yeah i have always found it a bit strange that there are empire aligned minor factions within controlled federation space and vice versa. At least though it has an effect like slave trade becomes much more expensive due to "political resistance". At least with Winters there's an abudnance of federation aligned corporate factions that we can use, and if not there's always the independent ones too.

As for Hudson it kind of makes sense that he is strong against feudal and patronages as The Empire is to The Federation what Soviet was to the U.S back during the cold war.

 

[Morbad]

These things make me feel like the BGS was never really meant to 'flip systems' in the first place.

I find this almost inconceivable given how frequently systems are flipped, and how easy it is to do to lower population areas.

I still think it's pretty stupid that Hudson wouldn't prefer a Fed aligned, high security Corporate state to a medium security independent Feudal faction

Medium security, independent, feudal faction, pretty much describes the majority of real client states of empires and superpowers throughout history. There is plenty of reason for these to be vastly preferable to directly overseen territories which are a far greater burden on the controlling power, militarily, economically, politically, and even socially/culturally.

 

[Riverside]

Medium security, independent, feudal faction, pretty much describes the majority of real client states of empires and superpowers throughout history. There is plenty of reason for these to be vastly preferable to directly overseen territories which are a far greater burden on the controlling power, militarily, economically, politically, and even socially/culturally.

I get what you are saying, but a Corporate system generates more product, more profit & improved QoL for the (NPC) population. My personal ethos is that the ideal form of government is an Autocracy with the right person in charge, hence my preference for the corporate faction. The Fed bit is just an inevitable consequence of it's location, although I'm broadly more in favour of the Feds than any other.

I think the best explanation so far is Darkfyre's one, it is divisive which of course makes for good gameplay. Strictly speaking this experience has left a sour taste in my mouth for Hudson's ethics (the NPC, not the players), but rather than rage against The Man (lots of potential gameplay there for me) I'm happier to not disrupt the activities of quite a few players who have done me no real harm.

So In-game I'm not a happy camper, but in reality I ticked off a to-do list item (flipping a system) and would have been looking for another 'project' anyway. It's all good

 

[Azreh Helas]

I get what you are saying, but a Corporate system generates more product, more profit & improved QoL for the (NPC) population. My personal ethos is that the ideal form of government is an Autocracy with the right person in charge, hence my preference for the corporate faction. The Fed bit is just an inevitable consequence of it's location, although I'm broadly more in favour of the Feds than any other.

I think the best explanation so far is Darkfyre's one, it is divisive which of course makes for good gameplay. Strictly speaking this experience has left a sour taste in my mouth for Hudson's ethics (the NPC, not the players), but rather than rage against The Man (lots of potential gameplay there for me) I'm happier to not disrupt the activities of quite a few players who have done me no real harm.

So In-game I'm not a happy camper, but in reality I ticked off a to-do list item (flipping a system) and would have been looking for another 'project' anyway. It's all good

if you are flipping systems to fed corporate factions you are always welcome in Winters space