What Constitutes as Cheating

Since Frontier makes most of their sales in game copies, and cheaters and/or modders will always exist in some form, and many complain cheaters and/or modders affect the game and/or BGS, the solution may be as simple as providing a second edition of Elite.

A moddable version (generating more sales) in addition to the one we now have. The two versions play on different servers and are completely isolated from each other.

You could have two copies of the same game, with two separate Frontier Accounts on different Frontier server run galaxies and BGS.

Gankers, bots, scripts, trainers and cheaters in one Frontier galaxy in a version designed for that purpose. (That, may be entertaining to watch!)

Those opposed to that type of Elite have this original version, on different servers, without those features, playing the way the game was originally designed, with a BGS unaffected by those features.

If your caught cheating in the original version, your game gets converted to the moddable version and your moved to those servers.

Now, everyone is happy. It's a win for Frontier. It's a win for those who want the original design. It's a win for those who want to mod and cheat.

Everyone gets what they want and the community is happy.

If it's just sales and game copies that matter, this is a perfect solution for all.

o7.....
I fear that's taking the 'easy' route.. And I doubt it'd be profitable. Right now, everyone on the same servers and everything is confined and FDev can make whatever changes they want to one code base.

Going your route, the company would inflict upon themselves a double set of problems. Catering for the 'legal' version and then catering for the 'moddable' version..

I think we also need to distinguish that there is a huge difference between 'modding' and cheating.

Modding allows the playerbase to add to, extend, change imagery to their liking.

Cheating is changing something or how the game works to gain an explicit advantage over other players.

Take me for example :) I'm the former. A modder, an extender. I add things or abilities to extend or enhance my game play. I have no interest in being God on the server. In fact, I'm perfectly happy if no-one else was playing. I'm not playing to win, I'm playing to enjoy myself.

The cheater is looking for ways to make them better than all others. To make them or their ship invincible. To annihilate all other players at no risk to themselves.

When I played FlighSim, I had a home built 737 cockpit, with everything working. over a thousand switches, and running across 5 servers, and 7 19 inch flat panels. When I flew online, no one else knew I was in a cockpit with woprking thrusters, reverse thrusters, lights, full FMS, full TCAS. It didn't effect anyone else, but my enjoyment of the building process, the learning of electronics to make it all work.

When others did learn through discussion, they asked for some of my code, my frameworks, my gauges etc. And they too enjoyed the extra functionality. At no point did anyone modify Microsoft code. Yet we [cockpit builders] enjoyed a huge array of extras. So much so, Microsoft saw the benefits and even provided extra data and data views to in memory statuses.

I do not condone cheating in any form. Modding something to make it better or enhance your time spent on the gamsim, absolutely.

While FDev have to (depending on their expected lifetime of Elite D) address cheating. On the other hand, they should be welcoming modders with open arms.

All above opinionated :)


o7
 
For all the people going on about voice attack and keyboard macros, let's compare old MUDs.

If I make a macro that consists of all the commands to cast every buff spell I have so I don't have to type them out manually and instead just go full Ainz before I walk into a dungeon, that's perfectly fine. I'm not doing anything the game won't let me do - in fact, the game will queue up the commands and execute them in order in the middle of a fight, so if I enter a giant string of attacks while I'm fighting a monster, whether I type them manually or use a macro, it'll dutifully have my guy perform those attacks when he's able to, without getting any advantage from the macro as the game only allows one action per turn regardless of how it's entered.

Likewise, MUD clients allow triggers to be set up that respond with commands in certain situations - some MUDs frown on overusing them for grinding, such as sitting in one spot and having a script to attack any monsters that spawn in the room, but that's functionally the same as the AFK turretboats in this game. Certainly nobody complained about my maxed-out mage/cleric cheesemunchkin character sitting in the town square once I hit the level cap openly holding a sign reading "say Scree, buff me for buffs" and a trigger set to spam them with an obscene amount of powerups if they said the phrase.

The key thing about all these triggers and macros is that none of them allow you to do anything that isn't possible within the framework of the game. If I saw someone asking for a buff, I could blast them with every buff under the sun just as easily by hand as I could with the script.
What did get you told off was abusing glitches in the game code to obtain effects that you couldn't get otherwise, or doing things like, say, levelling an alt up to use the Wish spell (which cost you permanent stats) to give your main character obscene buffs, then deleting the alt. That fell outwith the bounds of what you could do on a single character, and so was considered cheating.
 
While I'm posting here again... is there somewhere that FD have a list of "Authorised/supported" 3rd party apps/mods?
I used VoiceAttack in my above examples because I genuinely wasn't sure of it's status as "authorised" by FD, so s/VoiceAttack/some unauthorised 3rd party app or mod/g.
I have not located or know of an "official" place where it specifically states what third party applications are "authorized" by Frontier. VoiceAttack (on their website) states they are "partnered" with HCS Voicepacks, which cannot be used without using VA, and HCS Voicepacks (on their website) has a "Frontier Logo" stating they are "An officially Licensed Product". As well, on this Forum, under "Player Tools & API Discussions", you will find most, if not all of the third party tools, some which use the Frontier API, listed. I doubt this forum or Frontier, if they objected to the use of these third party tools, would allow them to be listed, advertised, or sanctioned for use by players. It would be an easy matter if someone posted a third party tool for the purposes of cheating, for Frontier to take it down or forbid it's use with a statement in that discussion thread. My point is that I believe Frontier knows what is being posted and advertised in that thread as a "Player Tool" and if Frontier had a concern with it, I doubt it would be allowed, listed or advertised as a "player tool" here on this forum. My personal opinion is that if it is listed as a "player tool" there, it is up to the player whether or not to use it, regardless of whether Frontier explicitly gave permission or acknowledgement. In my opinion, I like VoiceAttack and the HCS Voicepacks, which for me, just automate manual keystrokes I would do anyway, into voice commands.

o7.....
 
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Brett C

Community Manager
Frontier
Hi all,

Cheating in Elite Dangerous is managed on a case by case basis. Applications used outside of Elite Dangerous that allow for full unattended automation of the game (known as botting) is not permitted. Using 3rd party applications tools to modify your game client to gain an unfair advantage is cheating (things like no-clip, full shields, insta teleports/insta-jumping, etc). Taking advantage of a bug in the live game that has not been disclosed or suppressed from being reported is exploiting.

As always, that isn't a full definitive list, and our Anti-Cheat team at Frontier has the final say on what is and what is not permitted to be used in conjunction with Elite Dangerous. You can view our current Elite Dangerous EULA here: https://www.frontierstore.net/ed-eula/

If you find hacks or cheats being used, please report the user via the ingame tools and file a customer support ticket at https://support.frontier.co.uk/ - thanks!
 
The way I understand it is that as written in the EULA, VoiceAttack could potentially be considered an "outside" 3rd party app, but this is where Frontier's and articulated above by BrettC "case-by-case basis" comes in. Arguably, FD would be within their rights and EULA to take action against VA, but in all practicality, that's never going to happen.

I'd say that as written even my Warthog TARGET software is a 3rd party app. But is doesn't give an unfair advantage. VA just maps inputs differently. I wouldn't worry.
 
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The way I understand it is that as written in the EULA, VoiceAttack could potentially be considered an "outside" 3rd party app, but this is where Frontier's and articulated above by BrettC "case-by-case basis" comes in. Arguably, FD would be within their rights and EULA to take action against VA, but in all practicality, that's never going to happen.

I'd say that as written even my Warthog TARGET software is a 3rd party app. But is doesn't give an unfair advantage. VA just maps inputs differently. I wouldn't worry.
Would be interested in their views on macrod pips. Or anything that gives a competitive edge not offered by ED, but a third party program.

I think it would be easier to program those few options into the game, over removing something I know a lot of my friends use with voice attack. I know a lot of people that rely on voice attack for specific reasons other than recreation.

So dont remove the programs that allow it. But give us the options to use those features in the game itself.

I dunno just a thought.
 
VA just maps inputs differently. I wouldn't worry.
[deleted]

Why am I arguing with you here?
I can argue with you in person at the AEDC Bot Watchers HQ.


And for those in the cheap seats: "NO - the AEDC Bot Watchers don't hang around Bondi Beach all day chatting up French backpackers in thongs and G strings". (The backpackers in thongs, not the middle aged Space Sim enthusiasts, do I look like Borat?)
We do serious stuff. Like spreadsheets, and whatever that other database Python thingy is with all the blobby colours and system names scrolling across in real time like a stock market and about as hard to read. Dead serious.
 
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The Replicated Man

T
The way I understand it is that as written in the EULA, VoiceAttack could potentially be considered an "outside" 3rd party app, but this is where Frontier's and articulated above by BrettC "case-by-case basis" comes in. Arguably, FD would be within their rights and EULA to take action against VA, but in all practicality, that's never going to happen.

I'd say that as written even my Warthog TARGET software is a 3rd party app. But is doesn't give an unfair advantage. VA just maps inputs differently. I wouldn't worry.
Thing is voiceattack on it's own without plugins doesn't modify any of the game files, it is just a glorified piece of input macro software.

You issue a command, it presses the corresponding/bound key for that action on your keyboard. It's not like it's aimbot or anything.
 
Voice attack, or programmable macro keys on a keyboard, don't do anything that you couldn't do otherwise. Like the MUD thing, it's not cheating to bind a script to enter several commands in quick succession, they only considered it cheating if you write triggered responses that allow your client to play the game while you're not physically present.

Voice attack and macro keys still require you to be there, present, at your desk, operating the controls for your ship, and make the decision to execute the macro. Whether it's one command or several isn't the issue, a player's hand is still on the button that issued them.
 
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