What Happend to the Dream?

[Jex =TE=]

Imagine visiting a system and you see a station under construction.. not because Frontier put it there; but because a Wing managed to generate enough money and resources to actually get it built.
Or .. perhaps a station in ruins, CMDR's picking through her skeleton to find things they can salvage.

A much more living and breathing galaxy, imho.

See, emergent gameplay in the making right here. As opposed to the absolute sterility of the ED galaxy right now with literally no gameplay that you haven't down a thousand times over. How about instead of sterile and shallow powerplay "diplomacy" you do the real thing? How about a delivery mission that meant something? Delivering something of value to your ally with their enemies on your trail? The annual system race around the planets or buggy racing or whatever - you could have events planned all year.

Or we could have posts where someone points out that 3 different types of delivery mission are somehow different gameplay because they're transporting different goods on a CG. I'm sure there were a mass of exciting stories to be told over that one!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yeah, it's says he's human.. Google "Belongingness". It's a biological trait of every single human being.

Belongingness: Belongingness is the human emotional need to be an accepted member of a group. Whether it is family, friends, co-workers, a religion, or something else, people tend to have an 'inherent' desire to belong and be an important part of something greater than themselves.

I do not need that in a computer game.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Belongingness: Belongingness is the human emotional need to be an accepted member of a group. Whether it is family, friends, co-workers, a religion, or something else, people tend to have an 'inherent' desire to belong and be an important part of something greater than themselves.

I do not need that in a computer game.

You might not. Others do.
In fact, you are the minority here.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Unfortunately, that's just not good enough. That's poor development meant to cater for a supposed minority just to shut them up without actually addressing the requirement.
Which is a very big problem because alienating your customers this way is a sure way to send them packing.

The entire purpose of a clan system is to bring players of shared interest and vision together.
It's purpose is to create and encourage that multiplayer aspect.

If you don't want to be part of that, then don't .. nobody will be forcing you to, nor will anybody care if you don't. It's your experience, you can play it as you like.

Star Citizen is implementing a clan system, and people love it.. why? Because that's how humans are.
Here's the organisation I'm affiliated with: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/VALINOR

And you know what? Almost nobody is worried about this organisation, or that organisation taking over the galaxy .. and they'll only have around 100 systems.

Lol. They only have half a system, there is no clan system and you guys love every fake promise they throw at you. I'd suggest you use a better example...

You might not. Others do.
In fact, you are the minority here.

Everybody feels they are the majority. Fun stuff.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Star Citizen is implementing a clan system, and people love it.. why? Because that's how humans are.
Here's the organisation I'm affiliated with: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/VALINOR

And you know what? Almost nobody is worried about this organisation, or that organisation taking over the galaxy .. and they'll only have around 100 systems.

I will be interested to see how it works in SC as it looks like there will only be a handfull of systems available at launch.

We already have player factions. What I don't want to see is player owned assetts who decide who can dock at these places etc. If these player clans end up being 100's of systems in size and they have full control over the stations in the system etc, then it becomes a real issue for players. If they have no control, then we already have that in-game. You set up your clan outside of the game, inject your faction into the game and there you go. If you are talking about a clan headquarters, again, how many times will that be used. I remember being in a guild in Lotro. I think I went to the guild headquarters like three times even though I was an active member in the raids. It will become useless thing if it has no real connection to the BGS. If it does and it is player controlled then it becomes an issue for poeple that don't want anything to do with clans or guilds.

You might not. Others do.
In fact, you are the minority here.

Prove it.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Lol. They only have half a system, there is no clan system and you guys love every fake promise they throw at you.

I was referring to the organisation section on their website; but sure, feel free to miss the point entirely and focus rather on having a dig at the individual, and not the example.

I'd suggest you use a better example...

It's a perfectly valid example. SC provides a space for players to create organisations.
Don't like it? Tough.

Everybody feels they are the majority. Fun stuff.

Except this is not about opinion, but rather human biology.
Humans instinctively gather together in groups.. fact.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Prove it.

Absolutely ANY game with a clan system ..
Forums for games with NO clan system ..
Hell.. Forums with groups for SINGLE PLAYER games ...

.. human biology/psychology.


I'm not going to discuss this further though; I've already pointed you towards belongingness; it perfectly explains why you are the minority in your desire to be the lone wolf, even in a multiplayer game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Except this is not about opinion, but rather human biology.
Humans automatically gather together in groups.. fact.

Absolutely ANY game with a clan system ..
Forums for games with NO clan system ..
Hell.. Forums with groups for SINGLE PLAYER games ...

.. human biology/psychology.

I'm not going to discuss this further though; I've already pointed you towards belongingness; it perfectly explains why you are the minority in your desire to be the lone wolf, even in a multiplayer game.

Except I was talking about a computer game, not real life. And it's nothing to do with being a lone wolf. We already have player run factions in the game which I have nothing against. Its guild ownership of stuff that is what I am against as that has the possibilty to negatively effect other peoples way of playing the game at the moment.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I was referring to the organisation section on their website; but sure, feel free to miss the point entirely and focus rather on having a dig at the individual, and not the example.


It's a perfectly valid example. SC provides a space for players to create organisations.
Don't like it? Tough.


Except this is not about opinion, but rather human biology.
Humans instinctively gather together in groups.. fact.

Why not use an example that exist? "Look at this non existing thing? Why cant it be more like stuff in my head!" With your logic Inara or just a notepad provides a space to create organisations too. [haha]

And no, the 'need to belong' does not mean 'you need guilds in every computer game.' That is not a fact, that is just plain dumb.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Why not use an example that exist? "Look at this non existing thing? Why cant it be more like stuff in my head!" With your logic Inara or just a notepad provides a space to create organisations too. [haha]

And no, the 'need to belong' does not mean 'you need guilds in every computer game.' That is not a fact, that is just plain dumb.

Tell me about it. I had loads of fun playing jet set willy back in the day and never thought that I needed to be in some kind of group.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Except I was talking about a computer game, not real life. And it's nothing to do with being a lone wolf. We already have player run factions in the game which I have nothing against. Its guild ownership of stuff that is what I am against as that has the possibilty to negatively effect other peoples way of playing the game at the moment.

"But every game must be how I want it, that is a scientific fact!"

"Why do you even care, it wont hurt you if people have a base 1000 ly from the bubble! [...] Imagine the emergent content! Chasing and attacking rival factions..."

It is soooo transparant.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

"But every game must be how I want it, that is a scientific fact!"

"Why do you even care, it wont hurt you if people have a base 1000 ly from the bubble! [...] Imagine the emergent content! Chasing and attacking rival factions..."

It is soooo transparant.

It is laughable isn't it. And I really do try to be civil as well, but it is soooo hard at times.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Really? We're back to 'if you dont do what I want the game will die soon!'? Disappointing...

No did you fail to read what I said? If you don't do what people want, as in using current game technology and practices, then don't expect your game to go anywhere. It's a fairly simple concept to keep up with - you move with the times and you innovate.

Can you explain who makes an MMO with barebones networking and no social tools and then expects to survive as a game when their gameplay isn't even up to par?

 

[Jex =TE=]

I do play multiplayer games and do get them. But that is not what I wan't to see in ED. Not all multiplayer games have to be about clans and guilds though. I have played plenty and have been part of guilds and clans and have not been part of guilds or clans.

If you feel like you have to be part of a big group to find enjoyment, then that says something about yourself more then anything else.

How do you work out that hardly anyone is playing. Steam had around 80,000 people in the last 2 weeks. Seems fine to me. I am pretty sure it will go up after 2.4 drops as well.

5k concurrent players and 80k? hardly huge numbers and they're dropping. I don't feel like anything, you and Sleut are confusing your bias of wanting to blame me with what are current industry standards as if I have some magical power over gamers.

I don't, but I've been playing games over 3 decades and I pay attention. If you think placeholder mechanics and depthless gameplay is the recipe for a good game then i really don't know what to say. Some people will find enjoyment in it but that's not what most gamers want.

Not all games need clans, no, but ED does because there are clans in the game. So how come NPC's get to make factions but players can't? So we're not part of the galaxy then.... see how devolved the players are? You can look but you can'ty touch - that's pretty much ED in a nutshell.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No did you fail to read what I said? If you don't do what people want, as in using current game technology and practices, then don't expect your game to go anywhere. It's a fairly simple concept to keep up with - you move with the times and you innovate.

Can you explain who makes an MMO with barebones networking and no social tools and then expects to survive as a game when their gameplay isn't even up to par?

Which people are that. I only see a very tiny subset of player base asking so far.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

5k concurrent players and 80k? hardly huge numbers and they're dropping. I don't feel like anything, you and Sleut are confusing your bias of wanting to blame me with what are current industry standards as if I have some magical power over gamers.

I don't, but I've been playing games over 3 decades and I pay attention. If you think placeholder mechanics and depthless gameplay is the recipe for a good game then i really don't know what to say. Some people will find enjoyment in it but that's not what most gamers want.

Not all games need clans, no, but ED does because there are clans in the game. So how come NPC's get to make factions but players can't? So we're not part of the galaxy then.... see how devolved the players are? You can look but you can'ty touch - that's pretty much ED in a nutshell.

Maybe you should have ready what the game is meant to be about before you bought it. It was never described as an empire building game like the X series, so why expect it to be one?

 

[Marshall...]

After taking the time to read you whole post OP, i pretty much agree with all of your points. I have an horrendous amount of time logged in game, but these days i rarely play due to several of the points you raised....

Has the game been value for money for me? Definitely.

Has it live up to its potential? No, but i do still have a bit of hope that the house with have more furniture (I own a lifetime pass, so will still be kicking around).

 

[Jex =TE=]

That is the thing. That is not what people want though. Okay you give this group of players a station to do whatever they want with. It 100's or 1000's of lightyears away from any other clan or guild or the bubble. What does it achieve. Please tell me. What do they do there, fly in and out of the station because its thiers, or do they go about their business in the bubble completely ignoring the station of their clan/guild because they can't do anything with it. It becomes useless as stated. It would be a huge amount of dev work for something that is functionally useless.



I agree that the BGS factions and powerplay needs some love. But they never said it was never going to happen.

The X-series, yes a single player empire building game, which bears very little resemblance to the multiplayer game, man in his ship in a bid to survive the environment game that ED is meant to be (that is what it is advertised as and is how I play it too). They are two completely different types of game and the only resemblance is that they are set in space.

Ok I see the issue here - because you can't think of what clans will do you think there's no point to them. I just gave some examples which you just read so why are you asking me?

Go play Evochron Legacy then - you can make clans in that, unlimited speeds, true newtonian physics and you can mod your ship or even design your own - are you saying it would be impossible for x-series to be MP? No, ED is the odd one out because it can be done and has been done in MMO's, space games - why do some people think because it has to go over the internet it can't work?

My ping from here to the east coast of the US is about 100 - one tenth of a second. How is it that Falcon 4 can work in MP, a game 25+ years old and host 32 players and also run a dynamic war campagin and keep track of tens of thousands of units? It can be done and easily.

You say it's not what people want - no - it's not what you want. People actually want more social and interactive games and the 3% of the player base still playing the game show that.

 

[Whitehair]

....and the 3% of the player base still playing the game show that.

LOL.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Ok I see the issue here - because you can't think of what clans will do you think there's no point to them. I just gave some examples which you just read so why are you asking me?

Go play Evochron Legacy then - you can make clans in that, unlimited speeds, true newtonian physics and you can mod your ship or even design your own - are you saying it would be impossible for x-series to be MP? No, ED is the odd one out because it can be done and has been done in MMO's, space games - why do some people think because it has to go over the internet it can't work?

My ping from here to the east coast of the US is about 100 - one tenth of a second. How is it that Falcon 4 can work in MP, a game 25+ years old and host 32 players and also run a dynamic war campagin and keep track of tens of thousands of units? It can be done and easily.

You say it's not what people want - no - it's not what you want. People actually want more social and interactive games and the 3% of the player base still playing the game show that.

Stop putting words in my mouth and stop lying.