What's the Brand New Feature for ED in 2024?

Straight in there with the bait and switch I see! Just so you know, I understood your convoluted response but there's now way I was going to continue down that path. But if you want to side step that part and make a smart tangential remark instead, fair enough. Though it's not like we're talking about onfoot VR or ship interiors now..
No bait and switch about it. I was pretty clear in my ill-conceived Tesla analogy that the ask of people was pretty insane. If my response is too convoluted to continue down the path of, then I've achieved what I set out with that particular part, as that's exactly how I feel about the topic of Base Building and people's opinions on it.
...but you seem content with feeling that you know more than what people think themselves, people who I might add, are very well versed in the subject and are not synonymous with your example of folks who go starry eyed when confronted with the concept of a car...
Pot, kettle, black?

I don't make any such judgement, and would appreciate if you gave me the same courtesy.

I have no lens into people's expertise beyond what they put here... and I've dealt with many subject-matter experts with much more experience than myself, who present arguments with the naivety of a starry-eyed child who need to get brought back to reality.

Towards that end, I only know what I know, and can only contrast that against what people present in their posts, and make no appeal to authority through claims of expertise.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Frontier are going to include base building as a purely cosmetic item without any thought for the use of such a feature. To go back to the ship interiors feature, Frontier have said that they would only consider them when there's game play to go with them. Now before you suggest that this is the same situation, I will say that Ship Interiors is a big development which requires onfoot abilities first, of which I will say Frontier did develop onfoot gameplay that went along with the new feature, including many settlement types with assets that showed various types of operation, including mining, research, manufacturing etc.

So when it comes to base-building it would be fair to say that a lot of the assets that would be required for the above list you quote are already there and what is missing is getting these assets to generate the materials that would be associated with them, there are even Horizons assets that could be used that already generate materials:

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I could be wrong but I don't think getting these facilities to spawn the resultant materials is the hard part as such.
Correct, getting them to spawn materials over time, instead of being a bunch of loot boxes would be pretty straightforward.

Making the whole surface mining subsystem work in a cohesive and, most importantly, entertaining way, that's much more difficult and time consuming. I've already alluded to needing economic tweaks to support it... that quickly spirals in to changes that impact current mining, which would undoubtedly require rebalancing, maybe even some mechanical changes in mining (e.g hey, wouldn't it be great if common minerals were actually common). Given we've had a busted economy for... what... 6-7 years?... this feels like a difficult task for FD... as such it needs careful consideration, not just be bolted on to base building.
Again, you are putting words I didn't say into my mouth. I never suggested that Frontier can't boil the ocean and I never said that Frontier implementing base-building was akin to boiling the ocean either. That's all you, man. The rest is just straw, man. o7
Well, you did say:
Frontier can't develop all the features at once and some are hierarchical from a technical or developmental standpoint,
Happy to be corrected, but the opposite of that (trying to develop all the features at once without any sort of heirachy) is what myself and colleagues would call boiling the ocean; an otherwise very difficult or impossible task.
 
What Scope? FDev do not seem to consider the game playing by itself a path to take.
So there is nothing automated in the game. No automated mining, no automated manufacturing.
Nothing that would hint you could have an automated mining station that will fill your depots while you are not actually playing the game - pretty much like we dont have a plotting system for our carriers nor fuel tanks big enough so them carriers can freely roam the galaxy with us, the owners, being out of the game.


Yea, you could have a planetary base.
To do what? Have it mining while you are there, landed and pressing some buttons?
I dont really see this coming - ED is a space sim, not a mining management sim nor Satifactory

I don't recall mentioning anything about automated mining. I have no idea what particular gameplay might be associated with surface bases in ED. I'm not privy to the development discussions, including what the developers consider to be limits of the game "playing itself", and whether that might include generation of commodities by player-owned structures. They hold those cards close to their chests. I don't consider my own lack of imagination with regards to potential mechanics to be sufficient grounds to discount the possibility of surface bases as a whole.

You can assume whatever you want, but without official word it remains speculation. Hopefully in a few months FDev will lift the veil and we'll all find out what kind of thing they have planned.
 
Adding a Fleet Carrier module which over time will convert 1t of Indium and 1t of Aluminium stored in the cargo hold to 2t of Domestic Appliances, and keep working through this conversion so long as it's stocked up, doesn't seem that difficult and Frontier could probably put that module together (with a bunch of different cargo chain options) pretty quickly if they wanted to.

There are two big problems with that module, though:
1) 1t Indium + 1t Aluminium is considerably more expensive than 2t Domestic Appliances. It'd need to make something like 20t for it to be worth it. All the arbitrariness of the market prices (every single refined metal is a lot cheaper than the same mass of its ore, most manufactured goods are cheaper than the same mass of even cheap refined metal, etc) would need to be fixed to make most production chains make a profit while keeping to conservation of mass, and that would shake up a lot of the trade economy. The way that BGS states affect trade prices would need to be substantially toned down, too. Lots of things in the trade sim which are currently fine because the NPC factions don't have a budget and don't need to be profitable would need a complete overhaul to be player-usable. [1]
2) What are you going to do with 1000t of Domestic Appliances once you have them? Even with the FC module instantly converting all its raw material supply and not having any separate maintenance costs, the only thing you can do with them is sell them to a station, and you'd likely have been more efficient just buying them from an Industrial station in the first place. The same applies to essentially every commodity. So it needs not only uses beyond "sell them" adding for at least the end-of-chain commodities, but also extreme adjustments to the NPC markets so that they don't provide enough of those commodities on their own. That's again a much bigger change in terms of either the BGS or direct player use of a whole lot of cargo.

The one case it could potentially work right now is a production chain leading to Tritium, where the NPC markets are insufficient to meet demand once you get a few thousand LY from the bubble, and there's a player demand in the absence of NPC markets. But then Tritium is directly minable, so you'd either need to be able to run the whole production chain from mined materials where 100t of precursors is substantially quicker to mine than 100t of Tritium (or the exchange rates break conservation of mass, of course, so you only need 20t of precursors to get 100t of Tritium), or you'd need a way to transport other precursor commodities to the deep-space factory from the bubble which could be used to just transport Tritium directly instead.
(And that's with all the existing deep-space player-run Tritium depots essentially being run as a non-profit service: they'll cover their costs and make a nominal surplus but it's definitely not a fast way to make money)

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but the precursor steps of sorting out the entire commodity pricing structure to have something approaching a rational profit-making balance at all points (which would need careful alignment to things like bounties and exploration data which don't have the same considerations) would be immense and should absolutely be done first because if the economy can't even be balanced with purely NPC production it's certainly not going to be balanced once players get involved.

[1] This gets even worse if the production chains can make ship/outfitting modules, which are player-usable, because then comedy points like "the Sidewinder hull costs considerably less than its mass in scrap metal" suddenly become gameplay-relevant rather than minor sources of fun, and all those prices need rebalancing too.
💯

Another problem is the high value commodity one.

Take gold, which went from 8k to 40-60k after the balance pass. Used for electronics and luxuries. Looking at computers which are generally a couple hundred credits, up to 1800cr.

Let's say this looks something like 10t aluminium + 1t gold = 100t computers.. which is close to a 200% markup. Presuming a way to get gold through surface mining (or even not)... well... what would i rather do?
  • have facility for 1t gold, 10t of aluminium production to make 100t of computers, or
  • have facility to produce 2t gold.

Even if i can't surfac-mine it, gold is easily ship mined because it's as common as dirt. Why would i go to the effort of then turning say 20t of that into 2,000t of computers, just for double the profit... when i could just mine another 20t far more easily.

There's a simple answer to that... make gold (and other hvm's) scarce. Ooops, we just broke mining again and everyone hates FD.

The array of second & third order effects the busted economy has on the ability to do anything like this meaningfully is massive. You don't just plop manufacturing and surface mining in with the current mechanics and call it job done. So anyone with ideas about that coming with base building can scratch that pretty quick, along with many of the other things base building might be seen to provide, until these systems are threshed out properly... which (imo) leaves base building just as static FCs and maybe personal spaces at present.

EDIT: A point I forgot to emphasise with this is that manufacturing for-profit in games is all about value-compression; getting the highest amount of value into the smallest possible unit. The above example breaks that, because it decompresses 11t total of gold and aluminium into 100t of computers. Yes, the computers are worth more, but it's five times the effort to bring to market (at scale). Functional reasons can offset that, but as highlighted, there's no player consumption of commodities, and no scarcity to boot.
 
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Unless they introduce shortages - some kind of chain of production which needs player-made raw materials and goods to actually produce anything (or much of anything)

Maybe you supply to a faction, and that faction's stations have stock of the item, which increases the factions inf as people come to buy?
The challenge there is, as i just said, if you create shortages, congratulations, you just busted mining and a host of other things.

If it's unique materials to this chain, it's just a shadow economy and will never be integrated with the rest of the game experience.
 
I don't recall mentioning anything about automated mining. I have no idea what particular gameplay might be associated with surface bases in ED. I'm not privy to the development discussions, including what the developers consider to be limits of the game "playing itself", and whether that might include generation of commodities by player-owned structures. They hold those cards close to their chests. I don't consider my own lack of imagination with regards to potential mechanics to be sufficient grounds to discount the possibility of surface bases as a whole.

You can assume whatever you want, but without official word it remains speculation. Hopefully in a few months FDev will lift the veil and we'll all find out what kind of thing they have planned.

I'm not against planetary bases - in every mmo i played that included housing, i had a house.
So i would get one in ED too, no matter how much it would cost, even it it has absolutely no gameplay attached to it.

I just dont see it coming to ED 🤷‍♂️
 
I'm not against planetary bases - in every mmo i played that included housing, i had a house.
So i would get one in ED too, no matter how much it would cost, even it it has absolutely no gameplay attached to it.

I just dont see it coming to ED 🤷‍♂️

Yeah, but almost every MMO I played that had housing, had bonuses attached that you would get for having a house, like 30% extra attack poser against NPC and etc, make houses worth getting and people will get them, but also in most MMO's I have played housing was also virtually free so conferred no advantage really. I don't see it being housing either, that's just fantasy, housing would be a major update probably a DLC, and I don't think the new feature will be part of a DLC.
 
There was mention on the livestream that they are also working on "something else" with no vague release date.

It would have been logical to say this was coming in 'update 20', but they never mentioned an update 20. Therefore, my assumption is the new feature will be slipped into the game for players to discover. Possibly related to players having to 'discover' what the new ship functionality is.
 
It would have been logical to say this was coming in 'update 20',
Only if they're absolutely confident that update 19 will bring out a fully working and complete powerplay system which needs no significant post-release tweaks and that this new feature won't hit any snags that push it back. This far out they won't be.

(They shouldn't be confident about the powerplay one for at least a year post-release, either - but they might be able to fit in some other stuff while we're figuring out how to break it)
 
Only if they're absolutely confident that update 19 will bring out a fully working and complete powerplay system which needs no significant post-release tweaks and that this new feature won't hit any snags that push it back. This far out they won't be.

(They shouldn't be confident about the powerplay one for at least a year post-release, either - but they might be able to fit in some other stuff while we're figuring out how to break it)

We knew since 2019 that base building was planned. On June 4, 2020, Tim Smith (community manager of Fdev) said base building is “not currently on the roadmap for Elite Dangerous" (reference). For some reason BB wasn't included in the Odyssey expansion which released on May 19, 2020. So they started active development sometimes after the launch of Odyssey. That's sufficient time to make a major brand new feature. The initial version could be a free update with cosmetics. Afterward release paid DLC for new modules, features, planet types.
 
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We knew since 2019 that base building was planned. On June 4, 2020, Tim Smith (community manager of Fdev) said base building is “not currently on the roadmap for Elite Dangerous." For some reason BB wasn't included in the Odyssey expansion on May 19, 2020. So they've started active development sometimes after the launch of Odyssey. That's sufficient time to make a major brand new feature. The initial version could be a free update with cosmetics. Afterward release paid DLC for new modules, features, planet types.

Hmmm. Much as I would like to see it added, I wouldn't take that comment as confirmation that base building is on the cards. "Not currently on the roadmap" could just as much mean a diplomatic way of saying "will never be on the roadmap" rather than "it might be on the roadmap later". While I'm hopeful it's the latter rather than the former, it's not a definitive enough statement for me to take it as something that they're actually planning to do at any point.
 
We knew since 2019 that base building was planned. On June 4, 2020, Tim Smith (community manager of Fdev) said base building is “not currently on the roadmap for Elite Dangerous." For some reason BB wasn't included in the Odyssey expansion which released on May 19, 2020. So they started active development sometimes after the launch of Odyssey. That's sufficient time to make a major brand new feature. The initial version could be a free update with cosmetics. Afterward release paid DLC for new modules, features, planet types.

That's not what that says at all. I mean you do understand that "not currently in the roadmap" doesn't mean they are immediately going to add it to the roadmap or that they have done any work on it at all, this is what that means, not on the roadmap means they aren't working on it at all.
 
Personally I'd think it's premature to take some strings in the game files to mean that base building is the upcoming feature, though it indicates that it's probably something they are working on, especially considering the unused on foot materials, the previous leak, etc.

IMO, the new feature could equally be something like race tracks for the buggies, or for ships similar to the tutorial.

As far as base building is concerned, my question would be what is the gameplay.

Note, that I'm not at all against it, I'd love to set out with a group of players and create a new colony/bubble far from Sol. Seems like something that ought to be in this space game in some shape or form.
 
Fdev will add a brand-new feature to the core gameplay of ED. The tentative release date is end of 2024.

What could it be? Such as:
  • Ship interiors

This was on the list of future paid expansion. I doubt it would be done for free.

  • Base building, mining resources
  • Station management

Doubt it. It would be too much of a departure from Elite's core theme, and the Fleet Carrier spam is already annoying enough as it is.

  • New planet types and biomes

This was on the list of future paid expansions. I doubt it will be done for free.

  • EVA outside a ship in space

This would tie into ship interiors. I.E. part of a paid expansion.

  • Deep NPC interaction with AI voices

This would be nice, but more likely this will be part of a paid expansion.

  • On foot VR mode

Too much work for too little benefit. If it isn't done right (I.E. Roomscale VR), it'll be a vomit inducing new feature, rather than something that would draw in new players.

  • Procedural cities on planets

This would tie in to new planets/biomes. I.E. part of a paid expansion.

  • Guild system for player groups

Don't we already such a system in place? (I.E. Squadrons)

  • Hunt procedural alien wildlife

This would tie into new planets/biomes. I.E. part of a paid expansion.

  • Something else

Most likely this. Since this is Frontier we're talking about, it's best to keep expectations non-existant. That way you'll be pleasantly surprised, rather than crushingly disappointed. ;)
 
Excuse me, but what is the big wish for ship interiors. What would you do? Walk around, eat a meal, go to bed? Check your cargo? Nearly everyone screams for ship interiors, but, BORING...

Would much rather something more involved than the ability to stroll the decks of my cockpit...
While I agree with the sentiment, it's other people's ship interiors that interest me, and what you can do in them: salvage, sabotage, rescue, kidnapping, repair, etc...

There's a wealth of activities that can be done inside ships that don't involve your own ship. Having an interior for your own ship would be a bonus. As long as you have the option of skipping uneventful travel. As Starfield aptly demonstrated, if there isn't anything to do with a ship interior, I won't bother traversing it.

That's my main beef with Odyssey: the uneventful travel from ship entrance to the elevators. There's a lot things that could happen in that docking bay, based on the nature of the station, its controlling faction, and the states they are in, and they don't. Which is a huge disappointment. That docking bay should be a gateway to adventure inside the station. Instead, it's a quick (or not so quick) dash to the elevators to a glorified 3D menu system.
 
Since this is Frontier we're talking about, it's best to keep expectations non-existant.
Non-existent expectation of future development (or one of the words that shall not be named) seemed pretty widespread at the start of the year, but a certain party burst unto the scene again with very firm news, some firm news, some vague news and a very vague hint.

Oddly enough, speculation and expectation rises :)
 
it's other people's ship interiors that interest me, and what you can do in them
My opinion is that PvP boarding looks great on paper but would be a Titan-size can of worms.
  • Option 1: It's so difficult as to be practically impossible. Disabled engines are repaired by a quick ship reboot and a single 20+G boost will leave the boarder a mangled mess on the bulkhead. Remember, no magitech inertial dampeners or artificial gravity that would protect you from sudden accelerations and a 1 meter tumble in 20 G-s is equivalent to a 20 meter fall on Earth. Magnetic boots won't save you either, your head will hit the deck despite.
  • Option 2: It opens up all sorts of particularily nasty griefing. To board another player ship you need a weapon to disable the target ship's engines semi-permanently leaving them completely defenseless, unable to fight back or escape. Griefers will abuse this mechanic the very moment it becomes a thing.
 
My opinion is that PvP boarding looks great on paper but would be a Titan-size can of worms.
  • Option 1: It's so difficult as to be practically impossible. Disabled engines are repaired by a quick ship reboot and a single 20+G boost will leave the boarder a mangled mess on the bulkhead. Remember, no magitech inertial dampeners or artificial gravity that would protect you from sudden accelerations and a 1 meter tumble in 20 G-s is equivalent to a 20 meter fall on Earth. Magnetic boots won't save you either, your head will hit the deck despite.
  • Option 2: It opens up all sorts of particularily nasty griefing. To board another player ship you need a weapon to disable the target ship's engines semi-permanently leaving them completely defenseless, unable to fight back or escape. Griefers will abuse this mechanic the very moment it becomes a thing.
Could be NPC ships that are boarded, perhaps even Thargoid ships?
 
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