What's with all the guys using female avatars?

[Hellakitty]

This thread is definitely off-topic enough that a moderator would be well within their right to close it, but:

1. Gender theory is a pretty important/interesting topic (important full stop, interesting for a lot of people);
2. This is actually a surprisingly civil discussion of it, for the Internet. It's way better than talking about docking computers. : )

2. Indeed. I'm still waiting for the alt- and traditional- right types to come and trash it with their bigotry and unfathomably dogmatic thinking.
1. I'd wager the opposite. Humans are a freak of nature. As a species we've existed for a fraction of a blink of the eye in the grand scheme of the universe, and when we inevitably become extinct the universe won't care, and our legacy will be infinitesimally negligible. Our self-importance, delusions of intelligence and self-aggrandising nature places values upon societal constructs such as 'gender' and 'sex' but they actually mean nothing. All my own opinion of course.

*edit - important note, nihilistic misanthrope here. Just for context.

 

[Nerwan]

But that's the problem: what he said was sick, whatever your interpretation of his intention. If I said something racist I would expect to be pulled on it, not glossed over because you want to spare my feelings.

Anyone who thinks that objectification does not demean that person needs therapy. He either needs to learn the right language for what he wants to get across or not talk at all. And this was the issue at hand at that point in the discussion: boys having a girl on their bridge to fantasise over.

To be honest I thought it was clear that he simply didn't really understand what was meant by sexual objectification. The context was everything. There's also nothing wrong with fantasizing about girls and such things are entirely consistent with feminism. It becomes problematic when girls become valued purely on their sexual attributes and those alone. However, as many on this thread have said, they're often creating a back story etc etc. Nothing wrong with creating characters that you find attractive.

 

[edgar]

Yeah... except if you take account some of the nuttier fringe feminists. About them? When the hunting season starts?

Equality, so nutty and fringe a concept, amirite?!

 

[Nerwan]

Yeah... except if you take account some of the nuttier fringe feminists. About them? When the hunting season starts?

In my experience. Such feminists are pretty hard to find unless you go looking for them. The sort of feminists one actually meets do not generally hold those views and one can find extreme people everywhere on t'interwebs if one wants to find them.

 

[Ozram]

Sorry-not-sorry, but if your choice of avatar is based out of a desire to extract actual sexual gratification out of character models in a PEGI7 computer game, then really you need to just keep that private and stop embarrassing yourself by telling the world about what gives you kicks.

No one wants to hear about how much you like the butt-shaped-pixels dude. Mybad if that makes me "PC" haha.



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EDIT: No emojis? Bah.

I'm curious about what he has to say. I like his opinions here and find your effort to shut him down offensive, especially when you use terms like "no one". You do not speak for anyone but yourself. Also, I don't think he's saying he gets sexual gratification out of it. Sometimes you can find a character in game easy on the eyes without greasing your joysitck over it. I also think frank discussion is hard to get at with comments such as yours and his point about political correctness is especially valid in that light.
In short you built a strawman and then proceeded to set it on fire all the while pretending you spoke for the community when it was just you and your little matchstick.

 

[CMDR-Bullsey]

FD "no guys don't close this thread it's taking the attension away from the crappy update "

 

[edgar]

I'm curious about what he has to say. I like his opinions here and find your effort to shut him down offensive, especially when you use terms like "no one". You do not speak for anyone but yourself. Also, I don't think he's saying he gets sexual gratification out of it. Sometimes you can find a character in game easy on the eyes without greasing your joysitck over it. I also think frank discussion is hard to get at with comments such as yours and his point about political correctness is especially valid in that light.
In short you built a strawman and then proceeded to set it on fire all the while pretending you spoke for the community when it was just you and your little matchstick.

You can find offence wherever you want. I meant "no one" figuratively, but w/e.

If you don't like my tone, too bad? Report me I guess, but please don't try to police how I interact, thank you.

 

[Ozram]

You can find offence wherever you want. I meant "no one" figuratively, but w/e.

If you don't like my tone, too bad? Report me I guess, but please don't try to police how I interact, thank you.

Nothing to report, just pointing out that you're attempt to silence him was done through a convoluted series of dishonest arguments and makes you look bad.

 

[CMDR-Bullsey]

hahahaha got my hubby running around the bedroom in my knicker's
Christ hese heading for the closet

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

I almost posted a captain oblivious meme...

That's Commander Obvious around these parts.

 

[edgar]

Nothing to report, just pointing out that you're attempt to silence him was done through a convoluted series of dishonest arguments and makes you look bad.

Attempt to silence? Maybe they just can't respond over the sound of your handwringing! [big grin]

Perhaps you'd like to return to the topic at hand, rather than fixate upon the manner in which others' express their opinions now?

 

[Ozram]

Attempt to silence? Maybe they just can't respond over the sound of your handwringing! [big grin]

Perhaps you'd like to return to the topic at hand, rather than fixate upon the manner in which others' express their opinions now?

Handwringing? If you're going for ad hominems you should make more of an effort. But for the topic, I believe people are largely overthinking it. Makes for an interesting discussion though.

 

[Elyssaen]

well can't you all call each other gay without it being connected to the game

I guess the game was just the spark. Perhaps if this does come in for moderator attention and it's still on-topic, it could be moved to Off-Topic Discussion instead of locked? Don't know what the culture is like there, never been there before, but a thread on Brexit, another on French elections... doesn't seem like they're afraid of controversy.

Yeah... except if you take account some of the nuttier fringe feminists. About them? When the hunting season starts?

Every group's ruined by the worst in them, and every group has enemies willing to magnify the noise of said worst. Feminism is like Gamergate (wait, did I just say that?!), in that the genuine message of both is often spoiled online by a few really horrible people.

2. Indeed. I'm still waiting for the alt- and traditional- right types to come and trash it with their bigotry and unfathomably dogmatic thinking.
1. I'd wager the opposite. Humans are a freak of nature. As a species we've existed for a fraction of a blink of the eye in the grand scheme of the universe, and when we inevitably become extinct the universe won't care, and our legacy will be infinitesimally negligible. Our self-importance, delusions of intelligence and self-aggrandising nature places values upon societal constructs such as 'gender' and 'sex' but they actually mean nothing. All my own opinion of course.

*edit - important note, nihilistic misanthrope here. Just for context.

2. Not sure if we have too much of an alt. right contingent here. Err, forget I said that. It might summon them.
1. Well... I pretty much agree. Not a nihilist, only a misanthrope on Mondays, but I'm definitely no fan of gender. Biological sex has a pretty clear definition that has some uses though, so I wouldn't call that a societal construct. And talking about how gender is meaningless is a pretty interesting area of gender theory, so I don't think you escape! : )

But that's the problem: what he said was sick, whatever your interpretation of his intention. If I said something racist I would expect to be pulled on it, not glossed over because you want to spare my feelings.

Anyone who thinks that objectification does not demean that person needs therapy. He either needs to learn the right language for what he wants to get across or not talk at all. And this was the issue at hand at that point in the discussion: boys having a girl on their bridge to fantasise over.

Thought experiment here. The 'right language' evolves over time, right? If you gave me an edict that people should use the right language or can justifiably be silenced, and I could hold some sway over the 'right language' by driving usage... you'd have given me everything I need to silence millions of people. 'Liberally.' [*]

Objectify can mean something non-harmful. Maybe that definition should stay in usage, maybe it shouldn't. I don't think it's really that obvious. But even if it should, people are always going to be using the 'wrong language' while meaning well. By all means let's make our case to them, but to say they need to "not talk at all"? I don't think that model would create the sort of world any of us would want.

[*] To be clear, I wouldn't do it. [**]
[**] Except on Mondays.

 

[Ozram]

But that's the problem: what he said was sick, whatever your interpretation of his intention. If I said something racist I would expect to be pulled on it, not glossed over because you want to spare my feelings.

Anyone who thinks that objectification does not demean that person needs therapy. He either needs to learn the right language for what he wants to get across or not talk at all. And this was the issue at hand at that point in the discussion: boys having a girl on their bridge to fantasise over.

What was sick about it? Enlighten me?
Edit:
To elaborate on the question: how did you derive that I was advocating objectification (as defined in the derogatory sense where a persons value is striped down) or that I was suggesting the boys were getting any sexual gratification from their female avatars?

 

[znôrt]

actual sexual gratification out of character models in a PEGI7 computer game

dude, maybe it's your imagination what's a bit out of focus here

 

[Gortron]

Actually? I almost posted a captain oblivious meme, and only good manners stopped me. (you don't kick in the other if he don't give a pretty good reason to it.) NP with the post, but to be honest? The ability to recognize humor before you post something like this as response? Comes handy.

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Than we are agree in there.

You can think whatever you like, as far that thingy between your legs are macing with it. If not? How i say this? You can't think you are a woman if nature not agree with you, if you do so? Well... In the other hand? If you want to be a woman, or your sexual appetite? Well... touchy subject but i have no problem with it. Gender neutrality as (political / social) concept?

Don't get me started!

Edit; overall? It does not matter what you think what you or the world are, what's given is given. The world does not turns into a disk just because you are a flattard, and neither your gender going to change because you think you something else...

"Eppur si muove"
-Galileo Galilei.

It must be absolutely terrible to be born physically a gender that you don't mentally identity with. Not only is someone like that going to be confused as hell growing up but they are going to have to chose between subjecting themselves to constantly acting as if they are something they are not with acts of social bravery and physical mutilation that most people could never cope with. I don't agree with people trying to bring up children as gender neutral though; that is just asking for trouble.

As for what is with all the blokes using female avatars - It probably falls into three categories.

1) men objectifying women (so what, people objectify... including women objectifying men).
2) just a bit of fun role playing.
3) People being a bit more curious about life as a woman.

I'd bet big money on it being mostly blokes preferring to see women. Though I do know a guy that says looking like a girl is a good way to get attention from.... other guys [haha]

 

[CMDR Fiani]

So does no one itt just feel like playing something or someone different to real life? To me there's not really a roleplaying or gender identity component, it's just fun to make a variety of characters.

Or are you all the types who will always roll a human in Dragon Age, because "how can I sympathise with an elf, let alone a fe-male"?

 

[Ozram]

So does no one itt just feel like playing something or someone different to real life? To me there's not really a roleplaying or gender identity component, it's just fun to make a variety of characters.

Or are you all the types who will always roll a human in Dragon Age, because "how can I sympathise with an elf, let alone a fe-male"?

Pretty much same here. My character happens to be male in this game, but could just as easily have been female and not because I want to sexually objectify an avatar.

 

[Minonian]

Don't make me talk about my 21 STO characters and their crew. Harem... (clothing included.)

It must be absolutely terrible to be born physically a gender that you don't mentally identity with.

About this? I don't disagree, neither going to agree, for a simple reason. Al trough i can understand some of their pain, but sure as hell i can't agree with the rights defender hysteria around these sort of subject, mostly because of the reason of my understanding of their problem, and also because i know right defenders very well..
For my part? They are just another when the hunting season starts group, and the hysteria some of this whackos generating around LMBTQI subject? Reason to shoot!

 

[Nerwan]

2. Not sure if we have too much of an alt. right contingent here. Err, forget I said that. It might summon them.

Too late...

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For my part? They are just another when the hunting season starts group, and the hysteria some of this whackos generating around LMBTQI subject? Reason to shoot!

They're here!