Where are the DEVS?
- Thread starter FunnyLiz
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- @devs planet zoo
Curious, why is giving an example "whataboutism"?
There's a big difference between comparing/giving an example and whataboutism.
Also for over 25 years
.I think in recent years having a forum actually has become less because steam also offers this, some also post their dev-diary on steam as well.
(and quite a few switched to mostly social media platforms)
Personally I think the biggest issue is the "issue tracker", which I think is severely lacking. or just a FAQ on this forum with answers for recurring questions.
I think you should be able to subscribe to an issue and get an automated message when a cm/dev updates that issue.
A CM comment in 1 thread about a certain topic, gets easily lost in the amount of threads on this forum.
The amount of duplicate reports is somewhat an issue, at least try to add your experience to an existing report. (like you don't have to create another issue about crashing, there are already 2 confirmed ones)
Sooo... with Jay leaving Frontier this week, we are left with one CM less.
The fluctuation of CMs are really extreme at this point and leaves the impression to me, that Frontier is not a very attractive place to work for as a Community Manager. Just a good "starting point" maybe. With all the silence that is going on everytime with every CM and you can't even see a real difference in community approach with them, it really smells like they are micromanaged from the top. All speculation of course.
What isn't speculation is, that we are still left with a lot un unanswered questions regarding feedback, including but not limited to deep diving and the problematic 4 meter deopth need. Again, if it's by technical regularies, you'd wonder why the animals actually CAN deep dive in shallower water once the deep dive requirement is met elswehere in the habitat.
Also I noticed that when players come here because they have issues with the game, it's most often the users that help them. Which is cool in an anwesome community, but that would also be a perfect oppurtunity for CMs to show up one in a while.
I'm stil hoping we get back to the great communication of before the South American pack, when Bo was still present. But I have less and less hope with it, honestly.
I wish all leaving CMs a work envorement where they can thrive and really interact with the community. Where they can identify with the games their new company has to offer. To this date, I still feel like we are missing real zoo enthusiast or even management game enthusiasts that really "get" the community, even if I'm sure the current CMs are trying their very best. But as I said, I feel like the problem is higher up the latter and for me personally that leads to the big question if I want to support Frontier beyond Planet Zoo, when the communication is at an "EAs worst days point".
The fluctuation of CMs are really extreme at this point and leaves the impression to me, that Frontier is not a very attractive place to work for as a Community Manager. Just a good "starting point" maybe. With all the silence that is going on everytime with every CM and you can't even see a real difference in community approach with them, it really smells like they are micromanaged from the top. All speculation of course.
What isn't speculation is, that we are still left with a lot un unanswered questions regarding feedback, including but not limited to deep diving and the problematic 4 meter deopth need. Again, if it's by technical regularies, you'd wonder why the animals actually CAN deep dive in shallower water once the deep dive requirement is met elswehere in the habitat.
Also I noticed that when players come here because they have issues with the game, it's most often the users that help them. Which is cool in an anwesome community, but that would also be a perfect oppurtunity for CMs to show up one in a while.
I'm stil hoping we get back to the great communication of before the South American pack, when Bo was still present. But I have less and less hope with it, honestly.
I wish all leaving CMs a work envorement where they can thrive and really interact with the community. Where they can identify with the games their new company has to offer. To this date, I still feel like we are missing real zoo enthusiast or even management game enthusiasts that really "get" the community, even if I'm sure the current CMs are trying their very best. But as I said, I feel like the problem is higher up the latter and for me personally that leads to the big question if I want to support Frontier beyond Planet Zoo, when the communication is at an "EAs worst days point".
Wow, another CM departure D:
Another sign that shows how the PZ team (if there is one, which I even doubt at this point) is getting more and more skeletal. Minimal or simply no communication. Unsolved pressing issues or bugs for a number of players. And lastly, even though I tried to convince myself it wasn't, the last pack seemed to be really really rushed. This all makes me worry a bit about the state of the game.
I've usually tried to be optimistic because I've always envisioned this game to become not only the best zoo game for years, but also the best building game. Given the endless nature of the animal kingdom, the plants kingdom and the existing building pieces, this game could literally have no limits. But for some reason, even though sales are apparently doing pretty well, it seems it's not a matter of capability or ability on Frontiers part, but a matter of wish or preferences. That's legit of course. But many, many things need to change if this year is indeed going to be the best year of PZ.
Another sign that shows how the PZ team (if there is one, which I even doubt at this point) is getting more and more skeletal. Minimal or simply no communication. Unsolved pressing issues or bugs for a number of players. And lastly, even though I tried to convince myself it wasn't, the last pack seemed to be really really rushed. This all makes me worry a bit about the state of the game.
I've usually tried to be optimistic because I've always envisioned this game to become not only the best zoo game for years, but also the best building game. Given the endless nature of the animal kingdom, the plants kingdom and the existing building pieces, this game could literally have no limits. But for some reason, even though sales are apparently doing pretty well, it seems it's not a matter of capability or ability on Frontiers part, but a matter of wish or preferences. That's legit of course. But many, many things need to change if this year is indeed going to be the best year of PZ.
Yes I was thinking about the same lately. The silence, pieces of the last dlcs being unfinished and released afterwards (babirusa signs, custom audio that was promised to be released next update after the big 1.5, but we still havent see it..), rushed animal models in case of binturong and tapir. And then the supposed information from the influencer manager that PZ team has only 2 programmers...
All of this is worrying and honestly I dont understand why is Frontier not giving Planet Zoo more resources. By the information we can get, it seems sales are doing well, but I still have this weird feeling that something is wrong. It feels like Frontier does not care about PZ that much anymore. I think a reassure from the PZ team would be greatly appreciated by the community, but it does not seem likely atm.
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This is something what I will never understand, honestly. They are leaving real money on the table.
Now, lets just for a moment imagine that the CMs feel the same. They read all our wishes and begging for more and bigger packs every day, but all the feedback they give to the people uo the ladder is unheard... I would be so frustrated, that I'd also take my things and run as fast as I can. Would feel like someone is putting stones in front of my way.
I saw yesterday Jay's tweet and I thought the same: another CM leaves the boat... I hope it's not sinking . Anyway, I wish him all the best in his new adventure.
Sad as it is, I have already assumed that the communication is over. Before, whenever there was an announcement such a new small update, the CM answered some doubts that arose or reacted to our "thank you" messages with a like. Now they only post the announcement and disappear again. Before, they also commented on the threads showing zoos created by us, but when was the last time that happened? This can't be the CM's fault, they must be following some rules from above which make no sense at all.
. Anyway, I wish him all the best in his new adventure.Sad as it is, I have already assumed that the communication is over. Before, whenever there was an announcement such a new small update, the CM answered some doubts that arose or reacted to our "thank you" messages with a like. Now they only post the announcement and disappear again. Before, they also commented on the threads showing zoos created by us, but when was the last time that happened? This can't be the CM's fault, they must be following some rules from above which make no sense at all.
@Swjosdotschka is right, clearly something is going on behind the scenes. Jay wasn't even with the company for a full year and is already leaving. He's what, the fourth CM related to PZ that's left since spring 2020?
The loss of another CM is discouraging. But I have to remember CM's are not Developers, mostly - there may be some overlap but I'm thinking not? Apologies if I'm wrong. I'd love more communication, but I'm holding on for hope that the developers will make up for that.
I should clarify too I'm not referring to the volunteer moderators here as CMs. They're doing great and are very engaging with the community!
I should clarify too I'm not referring to the volunteer moderators here as CMs. They're doing great and are very engaging with the community!
Could indeed spell trouble or frustration with the corporate approach. Or worse, (much worse!) it could mean that they have an internal roadmap and know that the game is ending in the next year or two.
But I also try to remind myself that staffing and human resources issues can be quite complicated, and so it could also be attributed to so many other things. Maybe it's internal interpersonal conflicts that don't have anything to do with the game itself or its future. Maybe the team is just so good that they're being heavily recruited by other companies! Or maybe this is a pattern that lots of businesses are seeing as the pandemic starts to wind down (god willing), and people reassess their careers.
The most optimistic spin I can think of (and this may be grasping at straws) is to play out the assumption that Frontier thinks of their CM's internally as part of the marketing/advertising team. (I've mentioned this based on the pattern of CMs focusing much of their public work around sales times -- a pattern that I know many don't like). But the optimistic part would be that if sales have indeed been high, maybe they don't feel like they need as much advertising/marketing to continue. Especially if what they are focused on selling is mostly dlc to existing players, rather than having to find new players (which may have been more of the focus early on). The theory would be that they know the fanbase has their back, so they can continue for a long time with a smaller CM staff (and maybe even put those resources into other dev functions instead!).
But I also try to remind myself that staffing and human resources issues can be quite complicated, and so it could also be attributed to so many other things. Maybe it's internal interpersonal conflicts that don't have anything to do with the game itself or its future. Maybe the team is just so good that they're being heavily recruited by other companies! Or maybe this is a pattern that lots of businesses are seeing as the pandemic starts to wind down (god willing), and people reassess their careers.
The most optimistic spin I can think of (and this may be grasping at straws) is to play out the assumption that Frontier thinks of their CM's internally as part of the marketing/advertising team. (I've mentioned this based on the pattern of CMs focusing much of their public work around sales times -- a pattern that I know many don't like). But the optimistic part would be that if sales have indeed been high, maybe they don't feel like they need as much advertising/marketing to continue. Especially if what they are focused on selling is mostly dlc to existing players, rather than having to find new players (which may have been more of the focus early on). The theory would be that they know the fanbase has their back, so they can continue for a long time with a smaller CM staff (and maybe even put those resources into other dev functions instead!).
I don't see how that's "worse" - isn't that what was generally assumed from the start? The game released in 2019; ending in 2022 seems about right for Frontier doesn't it? Did anyone expect it to go beyond that?
I can't see them quitting because PZ is ending. That would mean they had to have a very strong bond with the game in the first place and actually, when you take a look at what they enjoy playing in thgeir freetimne it's mostly other genres and heavily console games. So IF they leaving because of Frontiers produtcs, they leave because they can identify with other games more. Still, I think it has a lot to do with how Frontier handles community management. It feels like the CMs aren't allowed to interact with the community, but instead are forced to read hundreds of complains daily, that remain unheard when they report them.
How many tmes did we ask for more realistic requirements for some animals? How many times did we ask for bigger packs for a higher price points? Reported the same bugs again and again? (It's the higher positions that decide how many devs work on a game and how much time they spend on bug fixing, so this is actually not the working devs fault).
Frontier somewhere down the line lost the touch with it's customer base (and by the way also with their influencers that at this point didn't even hear from some of the CMs ever) and I can imagine it must be overly frustrating to report what's going on in the community (if the CMs ever get enough time to really monitor the forums, which I also doubt by now, we had to promp them to burning issues one time too often) and you can't give anything back. Communication has become a one way road with Frontier mostly (with great examples as the bintu-wrong gate as the exception) and after THAT many CMs I doubt the mistake lies with them.
How many tmes did we ask for more realistic requirements for some animals? How many times did we ask for bigger packs for a higher price points? Reported the same bugs again and again? (It's the higher positions that decide how many devs work on a game and how much time they spend on bug fixing, so this is actually not the working devs fault).
Frontier somewhere down the line lost the touch with it's customer base (and by the way also with their influencers that at this point didn't even hear from some of the CMs ever) and I can imagine it must be overly frustrating to report what's going on in the community (if the CMs ever get enough time to really monitor the forums, which I also doubt by now, we had to promp them to burning issues one time too often) and you can't give anything back. Communication has become a one way road with Frontier mostly (with great examples as the bintu-wrong gate as the exception) and after THAT many CMs I doubt the mistake lies with them.
You're right. That's the general consensus from those who migrated over from other frontier building games. A fair enough speculation, extrapolating from past data points.
But there are some of us who hold out a glimmer of hope that the pattern won't stick to that, and that we'll get longer support -- precisely because Planet Zoo is such a different game than the ones that came before. For one thing, at least part of its player base (and customer base) is here specifically for the animals, and may not be as likely to migrate to the next product as previous player bases were. So right away there is a financial incentive for continuing that is different from those who hop from building game to building game every x years (the very folks who migrated over and made us aware of the pattern to begin with!).
Add to that the fact that there are so many animals that they could add -- nearly infinite DLCs if they wanted them -- and you start to approach the type of potential ongoing profits (and opportunity costs in ending it) that really can sometimes make companies change their business model.... Sometimes.... Or at least that's the hope.
My point was only that if CMs leaving is indeed related to frontier wrapping up with PZ (which we don't know for sure), then this would be worse in the sense that it would be evidence of that actually happening, rather than just speculation and extrapolation about when people think it might happen.
Oh, I didn't know Jay was also leaving. We lost 3 CMs in the span of 1 year of PZ. We have Jens and Tim (who is their lead, as far as I'm aware?), if I remember correctly?
We will never probably know the reasons for their departure (and it honestly isn't even any of our business), but I'm interested to know what this means for the community. I think it's wrong to assume that everything will go downhill in regards to PZ just because some people changed jobs. CMs work on multiple games at once so I don't understand the correlation between CMs leaving and PZ ending. When topics like these arise I often see lots of speculation how they are not investing enough resources into the development of the game (either be it time, people or money) and I disagree. I don't believe we have any kind of basis for these claims (unless I'm not aware of it?).
I see two issues right now: communication is lacking and we don't have a designated CM. Even before PZ launched it was Bo and Chante who were the main faces of PZ community managers. Any concerns, questions, ideas, you knew you could tag one of them and they would reply. You knew who to turn to if you had anything to say or ask. Now? Who is the manager of PZ community? Jens is mainly for PC and Tim is the lead, as far as I'm aware. I am hopeful we will get a new CM because ever since Chante left I feel like we have no CM.
We will never probably know the reasons for their departure (and it honestly isn't even any of our business), but I'm interested to know what this means for the community. I think it's wrong to assume that everything will go downhill in regards to PZ just because some people changed jobs. CMs work on multiple games at once so I don't understand the correlation between CMs leaving and PZ ending. When topics like these arise I often see lots of speculation how they are not investing enough resources into the development of the game (either be it time, people or money) and I disagree. I don't believe we have any kind of basis for these claims (unless I'm not aware of it?).
I see two issues right now: communication is lacking and we don't have a designated CM. Even before PZ launched it was Bo and Chante who were the main faces of PZ community managers. Any concerns, questions, ideas, you knew you could tag one of them and they would reply. You knew who to turn to if you had anything to say or ask. Now? Who is the manager of PZ community? Jens is mainly for PC and Tim is the lead, as far as I'm aware. I am hopeful we will get a new CM because ever since Chante left I feel like we have no CM.
I honestly had to check who Tim was again...
And I consider myself very active in this forum.
Also interesting to look at the post statistic of different CMs and what and where they post. PZ is basically only getting update threads by now, while I see at least SOME community interaction with JWE. Funny. Seems like PZ and the PZ community is the step child of the company. Not that I don't have this feeling ever since last years "non-iversary"
And I consider myself very active in this forum.
Also interesting to look at the post statistic of different CMs and what and where they post. PZ is basically only getting update threads by now, while I see at least SOME community interaction with JWE. Funny. Seems like PZ and the PZ community is the step child of the company. Not that I don't have this feeling ever since last years "non-iversary"
That's been my assumption. I've always held if we get product through the end of this year only I'll be disappointed, and anything into 2023 is longer than I expected but still hope for. I'd love for the content to come for years, but I'm expecting it'll end in 2022 as well, hopefully 3-4 packs that year though.